Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

Oh, this is so funny. Not the serious points. Rather the fact that people want to believe certain things that seem to be impossible to others, yet they are unwilling to recognize that some of the things that they believe are considered to be impossible by those same others.

For example, one person says, it is impossible for there to be a living angel inside the sun. Another says that it is impossible for evolution to have happened.

If we want to start to reconcile our "beliefs," all of us first need to recognize that there is only ONE reason why life and the earth is possible. That reason is, simply, that we exist. We are here. At least it feels like it and looks like it.

One of the most important things that we need to realize if we want to move on to an understanding of ourselves and the universe is, it is utterly impossible for life, and nature on the earth, and even the whole universe, to exist, according to anything that we know or understand, except that we do exist, and it all exists. Without recognizing this, all the rest of scientific investigation is meaningless, except that it moves us in the direction of understanding how impossible this universe is. That's the start towards understanding.

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[BADecker]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago. So, how can they, from a scientific standpoint, have any kind of an inkling whatsoever, about things that happened billions of years ago, or even that something like billions of years exists at all? They can't and don't. There are too many variables that they don't know about, to even have an idea as to the age of the earth.

How do we know that there are too many variables? We know it because they are looking at the variables right here among us in LIFE. And even though they can examine those variables of life that are right here among us, they still can't figure out how to make people live twice as long - say, to 200 years - to say nothing about being able to DO it. So, why do they think that they can even guess what might have happened way of over 5,000 years ago, in areas that they absolutely can't examine, because those areas are so remote to them, removed from them in time and space?

When they can extend your life to, say, 500 years old, then you can start to believe that maybe they have enough smarts that they can tell how old the earth is, beyond examining the pottery which shows that the oldest reliable records only go back 5,000 years, maybe.

Think and wake up.

[pedrog]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago. So, how can they, from a scientific standpoint, have any kind of an inkling whatsoever, about things that happened billions of years ago, or even that something like billions of years exists at all? They can't and don't. There are too many variables that they don't know about, to even have an idea as to the age of the earth.

How do we know that there are too many variables? We know it because they are looking at the variables right here among us in LIFE. And even though they can examine those variables of life that are right here among us, they still can't figure out how to make people live twice as long - say, to 200 years - to say nothing about being able to DO it. So, why do they think that they can even guess what might have happened way of over 5,000 years ago, in areas that they absolutely can't examine, because those areas are so remote to them, removed from them in time and space?

When they can extend your life to, say, 500 years old, then you can start to believe that maybe they have enough smarts that they can tell how old the earth is, beyond examining the pottery which shows that the oldest reliable records only go back 5,000 years, maybe.

Think and wake up.

[Buffer Overflow]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago.

Let's hope not. We are overpopulated as it is.

[BADecker]

Okay. Look at it like this. Imagine that some genius electronics engineer developed a time viewer, where he could look back 100,000 years. And he started showing people, over his time viewer, what it looked like when dinosaurs walked the earth. Do we believe what he is showing us? How can we tell, and when can we tell, that he might have something that is reliable?

Here's when. It's only when his time viewer can trace the history from 1 minute ago, and then 10 minutes ago, and then an hour, and then a day, week, month, year, etc., showing all the things that are happening right now, in our life time, where we can trace it back to the dinosaurs, viewing everything in between if we so desire. Only THEN might we start to believe that he has TRULY developed a time viewer that can show us the past, and that the past is as many years old as scientists have suggested.

The point is, ancient pottery, and old geological features, only suggest things. They aren't a time viewer that is clear enough to make any certain estimates of time and the timeline. There are too many variables that we don't know about, that just might play a much larger role in our understanding of how old things really are.

It is GOOD that scientists make their educated guesses; it helps them to have a point to work from. But also, let them say it exactly the way it is, that they just don't know scientifically what was going on beyond about 5,000 years ago, and that their educated guesses, ARE ONLY EDUCATED GUESSES. They really don't know.

[BADecker]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago. So, how can they, from a scientific standpoint, have any kind of an inkling whatsoever, about things that happened billions of years ago, or even that something like billions of years exists at all? They can't and don't. There are too many variables that they don't know about, to even have an idea as to the age of the earth.

How do we know that there are too many variables? We know it because they are looking at the variables right here among us in LIFE. And even though they can examine those variables of life that are right here among us, they still can't figure out how to make people live twice as long - say, to 200 years - to say nothing about being able to DO it. So, why do they think that they can even guess what might have happened way of over 5,000 years ago, in areas that they absolutely can't examine, because those areas are so remote to them, removed from them in time and space?

When they can extend your life to, say, 500 years old, then you can start to believe that maybe they have enough smarts that they can tell how old the earth is, beyond examining the pottery which shows that the oldest reliable records only go back 5,000 years, maybe.

Think and wake up.

See this? This is exactly why old earth science and evolution are a religion. People want to believe old earth science and evolution rather than examining something that makes logical, scientific sense.

[dank]

God is a fantasy. There's no one person controlling everything. The cosmos is everything in existence and it functions all on it's own. I bow to no god and no man. I simply exist in reality.

God is not a person.  God is all people.  You're thinking in terms of humanly logic.  God is not a being, god is everything that exists.  The totality of existence, that which is the universe.


To ignore the existence of something, you must first acknowledge it's existence.

[BADecker]

God is a fantasy. There's no one person controlling everything. The cosmos is everything in existence and it functions all on it's own. I bow to no god and no man. I simply exist in reality.

God is not a person.  God is all people.  You're thinking in terms of humanly logic.  God is not a being, god is everything that exists.  The totality of existence, that which is the universe.


To ignore the existence of something, you must first acknowledge it's existence.

I agree that God is existent in all people. But He also is an identity of His own, much broader that the combined entities that people are. 

[dank]

God is a fantasy. There's no one person controlling everything. The cosmos is everything in existence and it functions all on it's own. I bow to no god and no man. I simply exist in reality.

God is not a person.  God is all people.  You're thinking in terms of humanly logic.  God is not a being, god is everything that exists.  The totality of existence, that which is the universe.


To ignore the existence of something, you must first acknowledge it's existence.

I agree that God is existent in all people. But He also is an identity of His own, much broader that the combined entities that people are. 

I'm just saying that god is not one singular personified being.  The highest state of god is an infinitely bright singular point of white light and infinite love, as all frequencies together create a white light.  I know this because I have seen it, I have felt it and I have became it.

[Gwapo]

we are creation of alien genetic engineering
so in a sense there is a "god"

but not to the point that most world religions would like you to believe

[BADecker]

God is a fantasy. There's no one person controlling everything. The cosmos is everything in existence and it functions all on it's own. I bow to no god and no man. I simply exist in reality.

God is not a person.  God is all people.  You're thinking in terms of humanly logic.  God is not a being, god is everything that exists.  The totality of existence, that which is the universe.


To ignore the existence of something, you must first acknowledge it's existence.

I agree that God is existent in all people. But He also is an identity of His own, much broader that the combined entities that people are. 

I'm just saying that god is not one singular personified being.  The highest state of god is an infinitely bright singular point of white light and infinite love, as all frequencies together create a white light.  I know this because I have seen it, I have felt it and I have became it.

This is the point we might have disagreement on, if we took the time to nail it down. I am saying that God IS a personified being, separate from people, while at the same time being existent, as TRUE God, inside of and as all people. How can this be? I don't have a clue. Sounds almost impossible. Yet this is, if explained and understood correctly, what I believe.

[BADecker]

we are creation of alien genetic engineering
so in a sense there is a "god"

but not to the point that most world religions would like you to believe

The problem with this is, what was the god that engineered the aliens? And what was the god that engineered that god? And how far back does this go? To infinity? Aliens being engineered by other aliens who were engineered by still other aliens. Where would it all start?

Since there is no CLEAR evidence that this is what happened, and since we don't have any CLEAR evidence of what happened at all, personally, I agree with the written record of the witnesses to the things that happened as they watched them happen in their lifetimes. I agree with the Bible witnesses. Along with this, I agree with the acceptable idea of the universe being a machine, that had to have a machine maker.

[jackjack]

This thread is diamonds

[Cortex7]

we are creation of alien genetic engineering
so in a sense there is a "god"

but not to the point that most world religions would like you to believe

Possibly,

I also think it's possible that we exist as conscious code within a simulation.

I guess this would make the original system programmer/s "god/s"

And what of the original programmers? Do they exist as a simulation also? Maybe it's simulations all the way down?

And will we crack the engineering problem of simulating conscious entities that themselves can exist within a simulation?

[Cortex7]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago.

Let's hope not. We are overpopulated as it is.

I predict within 40 years it will cost ~1BTC to have a neural scan such that your conscious mind can be entirely transferred into a simulated environment.

So instead of graveyards there will be server racks, the deceased could still interact with the general web so continue posting on worldly forums from the "next life"

[Cortex7]

The problem with this is, what was the god that engineered the aliens? And what was the god that engineered that god? And how far back does this go? To infinity? Aliens being engineered by other aliens who were engineered by still other aliens. Where would it all start?

Swap the word "alien" for "god" and you still have the same problem.

[BADecker]

Look, if scientists and researchers had more than a rudimentary understanding of how things work, they would have been able to double and triple our lifespan long ago.

Let's hope not. We are overpopulated as it is.

Here's a website that says that the land area of the United States is 9,181,859.76 - http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/populations/usaareal.htm.

If there were 330,000,000 people in the U.S., and they were split into families of 4 on average, and each family lived in an apartment of 2,000 square feet, there would be 165,000,000,000 square feet of living space used by all 330,000,000 people.

There are 27878400 square feet in a square mile.

Divide the total square feet of living space by the number of square feet in a square mile. The result is slightly less than 6,000 square miles. This is the amount of land that living space would cover.

Stack the apartments in complexes 4 levels high to make room for roads and such between the apartments. This would leave 4,500 of the 6,000 square miles of residence land area for roads and parks and ponds and gardens and whatever.

The point is, even though living conditions might in some way be cramped in the above scenario, they wouldn't be SO cramped that people could not live. There would be over 9 million square miles of land left for everything else - from farming to manufacturing to whatever.

Over 99% of the idea that we are overpopulated is BS propaganda, designed to herd the people into the cities where they can be controlled by big government.

While there are all kinds of other considerations one might take into account, realize that the overpopulation propaganda is not giving you near enough of the true facts and figures.

[BADecker]

The problem with this is, what was the god that engineered the aliens? And what was the god that engineered that god? And how far back does this go? To infinity? Aliens being engineered by other aliens who were engineered by still other aliens. Where would it all start?

Swap the word "alien" for "god" and you still have the same problem.

The difference is that God exists outside of this universe. He exists even beyond eternity. So the idea that God is eternal, without beginning or end, is entirely plausible. Now, if the aliens are like this, then they are God.

[bl4kjaguar]

See this? This is exactly why old earth science and evolution are a religion. People want to believe old earth science and evolution rather than examining something that makes logical, scientific sense.

You said it!

In a related thread, I posted content which is in the domain of world experience -- but far beyond explanation.

Even if all of the old explanations make sense, those world views have limits to their relevance.

And they are now being challenged.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=635960.msg8437004#msg8437004

Also, I wanted to reference this page on Wiki and ask for your opinion on it, BADecker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tillich#God_above_God

[Buffer Overflow]

Over 99% of the idea that we are overpopulated is BS propaganda, designed to herd the people into the cities where they can be controlled by big government.

People herd to cities because that's where the jobs are.

You wanna try getting on the London tube during rush hour, you'll understand what overcrowding is.