Scientific proof that God exists?

[cooldgamer]

Shouldn't we find a global layer of mineral deposits correspondent to flooding?

Yes.  And we do.

On every continent are found layers of sedimentary rocks over vast areas. Many of these sediment layers can be traced all the way across continents, and even between continents. Furthermore, when geologists look closely at these rocks, they find evidence that the sediments were deposited rapidly.

You realize you're quoting science for the justification of your answer? Science that you previously have been railing against as unreliable and incapable of giving us objective truth?

You can't have it both ways.

I have no problem with science!  In fact, observable science confirms that there was intelligent design in every living thing to the smallest of atoms.  What I have a problem with is what is masquerading as science today, theories of how the earth supposedly came to be and now being taught as fact.  That is a huge problem.  

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE!

How can a person who is as ignorant as you are on a subject, claim to understand it enough to form an opinion.

What are your thoughts about the born interpretation of quantum mechanics? Do you think k-space is a suitable model for quantum energy states in Silicon semiconductors, considering the asymmetrical band formations?

Or really simple, since you claim formation of planetary bodies is made up nonsense...

Prove that kepler's laws are a consequence of conservation of angular momentum or how to resolve the asymptotic nature of the inverse square law using the dirac delta.

You surely are able to equally discuss all topics you are uninformed about.

You see, you are so ignorant, you don't even know how ignorant you are. You, quite literally, have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes.

I have never claimed to know it all. I am fully aware that there are plenty of people with higher IQ's and a greater understanding of science, quantum mechanics, physics and so on.

But thankfully God has promised that he would use the foolish things to confound the "wise."  

The intelligence of man is not enough to pay the price needed to enter heaven.  I trust God more than man.  You can trust in "science" and man's intelligence and your own intelligence.  You certainly have that choice.  But all I am saying is that there will be consequences for that choice.

I have had many debates with people over these things.  It seems like there is a common thinking that if someone doesn't believe in heaven or hell then they won't be accountable for the choices they make.  They think that if they don't believe in it, then it doesn't exist.  But if heaven and hell exists then does our belief or disbelief change that fact?

Here is an example.  Let's say that there were people on a very tall and high plateau and all around the plateau was a giant cliff.  If anyone walked off the cliff they would certainly die.  Most people were wearing blindfolds but some of us chose to take off the blindfold and we saw the cliff so we started to warn those around us that that they really needed to take off their blindfolds and look and see it for themselves!  We begged them to take the cliff seriously but they were certain that there was no cliff there and that we were just imagining it.  In fact, they said that we were the crazy ones for even saying that there was one there at all.  So one by one the people would walk towards the edge and fall to their death.  Would just believing it is not there cause them not to walk over the edge?  

So in other words fuck science, I'd rather just believe in this old book book lalala I can't hear you over my being saved.

The bolded text is a huge misunderstanding, atheists don't think they can do whatever they want just because there is no afterlife.  On the contrary, we think this is the only chance we have so why would we want to screw it up?  I certainly don't want to spend the one life I have rotting away in a cell.  If a book is all that's keeping you from tossing out your morals then please keep believing, I'd rather not have a mass shooting because you think there are no consequences.

Last, your metaphore is completely inaccurate, as no religion/mythology has more proof than another.  Of the thousands of beliefs through out human history why should we believe any of them, much less a specific one?  Observing the world around us has proven that we evolved, there is plenty of evidence if you want to actually read up on it instead of claiming there is none.

[the joint]

Just a note that "sin" in the Lord's Prayer (i.e. the Our Father) is equated to temptation -- "...And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil (i.e. temptation)."

Not quite sure of the relevance of that post.

'Sin' being temptation is still something that is a 'crime against god'.

Giving in to 'temptation' is a pretty fucking wide remit, ranging from the temptation to give a loved one a kiss on the cheek to, well, some pretty horrific things. So 'temptation' isn't really the problem here, it is what one is driven to do by it that is the 'crime against god' and, as I said, if it isn't a harmful act, then all we're worrying about is offending the poor dear's delicate sensibilities. You know how 'He' hates to think of people doing 'icky' things!

Funny, though, how God always seems to support what prejudices and hatred people carry within them. I never hear of a Fungelical Christian saying, "You know what, I disagree with God, he says I should love gay people equally, but I hate them and I think what they do is wrong", no, the Fungelical God always hates Teh Gayz and the 'icky' things they do with as much passion as the Fungelical human being does.

How queer.

It wasn't very relevant at all.  It was more of a tangential comment about something I find particularly interesting.  The interesting part to me is that it more closely reflects the beliefs of East Asian traditions (e.g. Buddhism) wherein desire is said to be the root of suffering.  This is logically self-evident -- every time you have a desire for *any*thing no matter how necessary (e.g. water to drink) or trivial (e.g. "I just heard this song and I love it, and now I want to hear it again) it implies that you are dissatisfied or not wholly satisfied by the present situation.  Rephrased differently, desire is wanting something you don't have.  If event A is happening but I prefer event B which isn't happening, that's a problem because event A is all I have.

[(oYo)]

[BitChick]

Shouldn't we find a global layer of mineral deposits correspondent to flooding?

Yes.  And we do.

On every continent are found layers of sedimentary rocks over vast areas. Many of these sediment layers can be traced all the way across continents, and even between continents. Furthermore, when geologists look closely at these rocks, they find evidence that the sediments were deposited rapidly.

You realize you're quoting science for the justification of your answer? Science that you previously have been railing against as unreliable and incapable of giving us objective truth?

You can't have it both ways.

I have no problem with science!  In fact, observable science confirms that there was intelligent design in every living thing to the smallest of atoms.  What I have a problem with is what is masquerading as science today, theories of how the earth supposedly came to be and now being taught as fact.  That is a huge problem.  

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE!

How can a person who is as ignorant as you are on a subject, claim to understand it enough to form an opinion.

What are your thoughts about the born interpretation of quantum mechanics? Do you think k-space is a suitable model for quantum energy states in Silicon semiconductors, considering the asymmetrical band formations?

Or really simple, since you claim formation of planetary bodies is made up nonsense...

Prove that kepler's laws are a consequence of conservation of angular momentum or how to resolve the asymptotic nature of the inverse square law using the dirac delta.

You surely are able to equally discuss all topics you are uninformed about.

You see, you are so ignorant, you don't even know how ignorant you are. You, quite literally, have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes.

I have never claimed to know it all. I am fully aware that there are plenty of people with higher IQ's and a greater understanding of science, quantum mechanics, physics and so on.

But thankfully God has promised that he would use the foolish things to confound the "wise."  

The intelligence of man is not enough to pay the price needed to enter heaven.  I trust God more than man.  You can trust in "science" and man's intelligence and your own intelligence.  You certainly have that choice.  But all I am saying is that there will be consequences for that choice.

I have had many debates with people over these things.  It seems like there is a common thinking that if someone doesn't believe in heaven or hell then they won't be accountable for the choices they make.  They think that if they don't believe in it, then it doesn't exist.  But if heaven and hell exists then does our belief or disbelief change that fact?

Here is an example.  Let's say that there were people on a very tall and high plateau and all around the plateau was a giant cliff.  If anyone walked off the cliff they would certainly die.  Most people were wearing blindfolds but some of us chose to take off the blindfold and we saw the cliff so we started to warn those around us that that they really needed to take off their blindfolds and look and see it for themselves!  We begged them to take the cliff seriously but they were certain that there was no cliff there and that we were just imagining it.  In fact, they said that we were the crazy ones for even saying that there was one there at all.  So one by one the people would walk towards the edge and fall to their death.  Would just believing it is not there cause them not to walk over the edge?  

So in other words fuck science, I'd rather just believe in this old book book lalala I can't hear you over my being saved.

The bolded text is a huge misunderstanding, atheists don't think they can do whatever they want just because there is no afterlife.  On the contrary, we think this is the only chance we have so why would we want to screw it up?  I certainly don't want to spend the one life I have rotting away in a cell.  If a book is all that's keeping you from tossing out your morals then please keep believing, I'd rather not have a mass shooting because you think there are no consequences.

Last, your metaphore is completely inaccurate, as no religion/mythology has more proof than another.  Of the thousands of beliefs through out human history why should we believe any of them, much less a specific one?  Observing the world around us has proven that we evolved, there is plenty of evidence if you want to actually read up on it instead of claiming there is none.

The only science I do not agree with is the science that is not based on observation.  I don't understand why this is even an issue. Just because I don't agree with the evolutionary teaching should not imply that I don't value science.  

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.  This life is pretty messed up in case you haven't noticed.  I had a pastor that once said that this is the closest to hell we as Christians will ever be.  But then I realized that this is the closest thing to heaven many people who do not accept Jesus will ever experience.  
Yes there are many religions and many of them have a common moral thread.  However, Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me."  I would think that the religions that say that any path is valid, following Christianity would be a wise choice then (kills two birds with one stone).  For most religions however, they all have the idea that we can earn our way to heaven or nirvana.  Christianity is the only religion that is not about what we do in our own strength but entirely about what God has done and our response to that.  It takes humility to accept that we are not smart enough or good enough to earn our own way though.  People generally would rather find a way to do things themselves instead of admit that they are powerless to do something.

Also, a thought that should cause some thought, is that Christianity is the ONLY religion that has an "anti-religion" formed against it in the form of Satanism.  For some reason this resonated with my husband and he really thought that was interesting and proof that Christianity is the most valid of them all.  In a way, it is Satan showing "his hand" so to speak.  He does that sometimes. 

[Vod]

There were two of each kind of animal, not all species and they would have been young and not fully grown.  Sea life would not have been included either.

Then where did all the species come from?  Answer:  Evolution.

Go stick your head back in the sand.

[(oYo)]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

[BitChick]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

Should we accept that?  

Like I said earlier, if I am wrong what is the cost? (I followed the Bible, tried to love others with God's help, lived a joyful life only to realize at death that it was for nothing?)

For those that believe this life is all there is, what is their cost? (eternal punishment with weeping and gnashing of teeth in flames of fire)

One of these choices is riskier than the other it appears.

[cooldgamer]

Shouldn't we find a global layer of mineral deposits correspondent to flooding?

Yes.  And we do.

On every continent are found layers of sedimentary rocks over vast areas. Many of these sediment layers can be traced all the way across continents, and even between continents. Furthermore, when geologists look closely at these rocks, they find evidence that the sediments were deposited rapidly.

You realize you're quoting science for the justification of your answer? Science that you previously have been railing against as unreliable and incapable of giving us objective truth?

You can't have it both ways.

I have no problem with science!  In fact, observable science confirms that there was intelligent design in every living thing to the smallest of atoms.  What I have a problem with is what is masquerading as science today, theories of how the earth supposedly came to be and now being taught as fact.  That is a huge problem.  

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE!

How can a person who is as ignorant as you are on a subject, claim to understand it enough to form an opinion.

What are your thoughts about the born interpretation of quantum mechanics? Do you think k-space is a suitable model for quantum energy states in Silicon semiconductors, considering the asymmetrical band formations?

Or really simple, since you claim formation of planetary bodies is made up nonsense...

Prove that kepler's laws are a consequence of conservation of angular momentum or how to resolve the asymptotic nature of the inverse square law using the dirac delta.

You surely are able to equally discuss all topics you are uninformed about.

You see, you are so ignorant, you don't even know how ignorant you are. You, quite literally, have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes.

I have never claimed to know it all. I am fully aware that there are plenty of people with higher IQ's and a greater understanding of science, quantum mechanics, physics and so on.

But thankfully God has promised that he would use the foolish things to confound the "wise."  

The intelligence of man is not enough to pay the price needed to enter heaven.  I trust God more than man.  You can trust in "science" and man's intelligence and your own intelligence.  You certainly have that choice.  But all I am saying is that there will be consequences for that choice.

I have had many debates with people over these things.  It seems like there is a common thinking that if someone doesn't believe in heaven or hell then they won't be accountable for the choices they make.  They think that if they don't believe in it, then it doesn't exist.  But if heaven and hell exists then does our belief or disbelief change that fact?

Here is an example.  Let's say that there were people on a very tall and high plateau and all around the plateau was a giant cliff.  If anyone walked off the cliff they would certainly die.  Most people were wearing blindfolds but some of us chose to take off the blindfold and we saw the cliff so we started to warn those around us that that they really needed to take off their blindfolds and look and see it for themselves!  We begged them to take the cliff seriously but they were certain that there was no cliff there and that we were just imagining it.  In fact, they said that we were the crazy ones for even saying that there was one there at all.  So one by one the people would walk towards the edge and fall to their death.  Would just believing it is not there cause them not to walk over the edge?  

So in other words fuck science, I'd rather just believe in this old book book lalala I can't hear you over my being saved.

The bolded text is a huge misunderstanding, atheists don't think they can do whatever they want just because there is no afterlife.  On the contrary, we think this is the only chance we have so why would we want to screw it up?  I certainly don't want to spend the one life I have rotting away in a cell.  If a book is all that's keeping you from tossing out your morals then please keep believing, I'd rather not have a mass shooting because you think there are no consequences.

Last, your metaphore is completely inaccurate, as no religion/mythology has more proof than another.  Of the thousands of beliefs through out human history why should we believe any of them, much less a specific one?  Observing the world around us has proven that we evolved, there is plenty of evidence if you want to actually read up on it instead of claiming there is none.

The only science I do not agree with is the science that is not based on observation.  I don't understand why this is even an issue. Just because I don't agree with the evolutionary teaching should not imply that I don't value science.  

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.  This life is pretty messed up in case you haven't noticed.  I had a pastor that once said that this is the closest to hell we as Christians will ever be.  But then I realized that this is the closest thing to heaven many people who do not accept Jesus will ever experience.  
Yes there are many religions and many of them have a common moral thread.  However, Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me."  I would think that the religions that say that any path is valid, following Christianity would be a wise choice then (kills two birds with one stone).  For most religions however, they all have the idea that we can earn our way to heaven or nirvana.  Christianity is the only religion that is not about what we do in our own strength but entirely about what God has done and our response to that.  It takes humility to accept that we are not smart enough or good enough to earn our own way though.  People generally would rather find a way to do things themselves instead of admit that they are powerless to do something.

Also, a thought that should cause some thought, is that Christianity is the ONLY religion that has an "anti-religion" formed against it in the form of Satanism.  For some reason this resonated with my husband and he really thought that was interesting and proof that Christianity is the most valid of them all.  In a way, it is Satan showing "his hand" so to speak.  He does that sometimes. 

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

[BADecker]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

There is absolutely nothing in evolution theory that suggests a way that the diversity and complexity in nature could have happened.

In the face of the laws of probability along with the apparent entropy we see all around, evolution is an absolute impossibility.

In fact, the continual political-like hollering of atheists and others is the only thing that keeps the idea of evolution alive.

With the creation of the Internet, as people come to realize the truth that evolution is impossible, even the hollering will soon die.

[My Name Was Taken]

Fine.  Show me how the scientific theory of evolution has been tested and confirmed then?  Where is the fossil record of all the changes that supposedly have taken place for man to evolve?  How about just one example of a change from one kind to another?  I do not need hundreds or even thousands.  I am just asking for one example?  There is no fossil record showing these changes and there would have to be millions of them if evolution was true but there isn't even one.  

This is a great summary:  

Many scientists and philosophers of science have described evolution as fact and theory, a phrase which was used as the title of an article by Stephen Jay Gould in 1981. He describes fact in science as meaning data, not absolute certainty but "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of such facts. The facts of evolution come from observational evidence of current processes, from imperfections in organisms recording historical common descent, and from transitions in the fossil record. Theories of evolution provide a provisional explanation for these facts.[1]

Each of the words 'evolution', 'fact' and 'theory' has several meanings in different contexts. Evolution means change over time, as in stellar evolution. In biology it refers to observed changes in organisms, to their descent from a common ancestor, and at a technical level to a change in gene frequency over time; it can also refer to explanatory theories such as Darwin's theory of natural selection which explain the mechanisms of evolution. Fact can mean to a scientist a repeatable observation that all can agree on; it can mean something that is so well established that nobody in a community disagrees with it; it can also refer to the truth or falsity of a proposition. To the public, theory can mean an opinion or conjecture ("it's only a theory"), but in the scientific world it has a much stronger connotation of "well-substantiated explanation". With this number of choices, people often end up talking past each other, and meanings become the subject of linguistic analysis.

Evidence for evolution continues to be accumulated and tested. The scientific literature includes statements by evolutionary biologists and philosophers of science demonstrating some of the different perspectives on evolution as fact and theory.

The point remains that there is no evidence Evolution is not true. Everything we can objectively know about it points to it being true. The notion "everything is so complex it just must have been intelligently designed" offers no basis to test it. There is no evidence pointing to this. Your belief is not evidence.

As for the specific points you're asking for, speak to a geneticist or a scientist. I am neither. I can't spell out all the specific examples of how evolution proves true you're looking for. But because I understand how the scientific process and peer review works, I know that when they settle on a scientific fact, it means there is no evidence that challenges the fact, so no reason to doubt it.

Your doubt is the same as your faith. You just feel it, so you believe it to be true. That's not how science works.

And I still don't understand how you can say that observable science does not confirm intelligent design.  Even the smallest of atoms is so complex that it had to be designed intelligently.  

Again, this notion is not based on anything but your feeling. The Universe just is. It didn't have to be crafted and intentionally designed. It just exists, and we study it to find out how it works.

Also, if a small "bug" is introduced into our DNA we get mutations.  Mutations always remove information, and never add to the information hence there is no "good" mutations (sometimes they can be beneficial depending on the circumstance) but nevertheless, if evolution was true we would see mutations as all being great and improvements but that is not that case.  Order does not come from chaos.

I don't know where you're getting your ideas about mutations, but they're not accurate. They don't "remove information." If you're referring to the genetic code of a species, then yes, mutations "add" information. Mutations come from transcription errors in DNA during the replication process. When cells divide, the DNA instructions are replicated, but sometimes random errors in the code occur. This process, happening trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times causes changes in the gene pool. The surrounding environment sometimes provides a benefit to some of these changes, such that the likelihood of passing them on increases. Over thousands of generations, these beneficial traits help a species survive. The mutations that are not beneficial are less likely to survive. But the mutations are not intentional, they are random. There is no way to control them. And further, they don't happen fast (one generation to the next). They happen over very, very long periods of time, over thousands and millions of generations. The conclusion "evolution is false because mutations are not always beneficial" is not logically sound.

[BitChick]

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

I love the beauty of God's creation that I see all around me.  I love the people that I am thankful to have relationships with.  I love the people that speak with on these boards, even if they hate me and say I need a psychiatrist.

But I also see the misery of life and the hate (due to Satan's influence) that causes people to kill, steal and destroy.  There is evil all around us.  You must be marvelously blessed to have avoided the sufferings that are common to man?  Seriously.  We all deal with death, pain, sickness and so on.  This is not how God intended for us to live.  It is part of the fact we live in a fallen and not perfect world, one that eventually He will make right again.  

Dog breeding produces dogs right?  Has anyone bred a dog to become a cat?  Until I can see changes from one kind into another kind I will not believe in evolution.  There have been adaptations but these adaptations are not proof of evolution from one kind into another.  We as humans have more in common with dogs than apes so looking at the physical bodies to make comparisons is not enough.

You don't have to agree with me.   You don't have to believe in God.  That is the amazing thing about "free will."  I am just trying to encourage a few people on here to think about the risks of not believing.  If something is true then it doesn't matter if I believe it or you believe it or if any of us believes it.  If God's word is true then we will all be accountable to it.  

My point about "satanism" was just an interesting fact.  There is no other religion that has an "anti-religion" formed to fight it.  It was not proof by any means. I just figured it was an interesting thought that should at least cause us to pause and think for a minute.

[My Name Was Taken]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

Should we accept that?  

Like I said earlier, if I am wrong what is the cost? (I followed the Bible, tried to love others with God's help, lived a joyful life only to realize at death that it was for nothing?)

For those that believe this life is all there is, what is their cost? (eternal punishment with weeping and gnashing of teeth in flames of fire)

One of these choices is riskier than the other it appears.

If all you're doing is keeping to yourself and having the occasional debate with nonbelievers, there is little cost.

However, the cost that most of us object to comes from religious folks who are so convinced they are right, they have to force other people to accept their personal truth through the use of force. I'm talking about forcing people to convert (as the Christian church has a long history of doing, not necessarily today), and using your religious texts as justification to pass laws that restrict the freedom of others (banning gay marriage and every other act that you find personally offensive because Jesus or some such).

[cooldgamer]

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

I love the beauty of God's creation that I see all around me.  I love the people that I am thankful to have relationships with.  I love the people that speak with on these boards, even if they hate me and say I need a psychiatrist.

But I also see the misery of life and the hate (due to Satan's influence) that causes people to kill, steal and destroy.  There is evil all around us.  You must be marvelously blessed to have avoided the sufferings that are common to man?  Seriously.  We all deal with death, pain, sickness and so on.  This is not how God intended for us to live.  It is part of the fact we live in a fallen and not perfect world, one that eventually He will make right again.  

Dog breeding produces dogs right?  Has anyone bred a dog to become a cat?  Until I can see changes from one kind into another kind I will not believe in evolution.  There have been adaptations but these adaptations are not proof of evolution from one kind into another.  We as humans have more in common with dogs than apes so looking at the physical bodies to make comparisons is not enough.

You don't have to agree with me.   You don't have to believe in God.  That is the amazing thing about "free will."  I am just trying to encourage a few people on here to think about the risks of not believing.  If something is true then it doesn't matter if I believe it or you believe it or if any of us believes it.  If God's word is true then we will all be accountable to it.  

My point about "satanism" was just an interesting fact.  There is no other religion that has an "anti-religion" formed to fight it.  It was not proof by any means. I just figured it was an interesting thought that should at least cause us to pause and think for a minute.

You pretty much just admitted that evolution exists.  Macro evolution (changing species) is nothing more than micro evolution (changing traits) over a long period of time, to the point that one is not able to breed with another, and you have a new species just like that.  Think about domesticated dogs vs wolves and how different they are.  Over time they will become more and more different, to the point that they are no longer able to mate (this would be if they were in the wild, doesn't really apply since pets aren't going to be subjected to survival of the fittest but irrelevant to the example).  At this point you have a new species.  

For the record I don't hate you, you really did sound depressed

[BADecker]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

Should we accept that?  

Like I said earlier, if I am wrong what is the cost? (I followed the Bible, tried to love others with God's help, lived a joyful life only to realize at death that it was for nothing?)

For those that believe this life is all there is, what is their cost? (eternal punishment with weeping and gnashing of teeth in flames of fire)

One of these choices is riskier than the other it appears.

If all you're doing is keeping to yourself and having the occasional debate with nonbelievers, there is little cost.

However, the cost that most of us object to comes from religious folks who are so convinced they are right, they have to force other people to accept their personal truth through the use of force. I'm talking about forcing people to convert (as the Christian church has a long history of doing, not necessarily today), and using your religious texts as justification to pass laws that restrict the freedom of others (banning gay marriage and every other act that you find personally offensive because Jesus or some such).

Yep! That's the problem with a lot of religious people, especially some Christians. Even Jesus said to shake the dust off your feet as you leave.

There will come a time when the Christians do exactly that. They will shake the dust off their feet and leave. When that finally happens, then the final destruction of the ages will come on all the unbelievers.

[BADecker]

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

I love the beauty of God's creation that I see all around me.  I love the people that I am thankful to have relationships with.  I love the people that speak with on these boards, even if they hate me and say I need a psychiatrist.

But I also see the misery of life and the hate (due to Satan's influence) that causes people to kill, steal and destroy.  There is evil all around us.  You must be marvelously blessed to have avoided the sufferings that are common to man?  Seriously.  We all deal with death, pain, sickness and so on.  This is not how God intended for us to live.  It is part of the fact we live in a fallen and not perfect world, one that eventually He will make right again.  

Dog breeding produces dogs right?  Has anyone bred a dog to become a cat?  Until I can see changes from one kind into another kind I will not believe in evolution.  There have been adaptations but these adaptations are not proof of evolution from one kind into another.  We as humans have more in common with dogs than apes so looking at the physical bodies to make comparisons is not enough.

You don't have to agree with me.   You don't have to believe in God.  That is the amazing thing about "free will."  I am just trying to encourage a few people on here to think about the risks of not believing.  If something is true then it doesn't matter if I believe it or you believe it or if any of us believes it.  If God's word is true then we will all be accountable to it.  

My point about "satanism" was just an interesting fact.  There is no other religion that has an "anti-religion" formed to fight it.  It was not proof by any means. I just figured it was an interesting thought that should at least cause us to pause and think for a minute.

You pretty much just admitted that evolution exists.  Macro evolution (changing species) is nothing more than micro evolution (changing traits) over a long period of time, to the point that one is not able to breed with another, and you have a new species just like that.  Think about domesticated dogs vs wolves and how different they are.  Over time they will become more and more different, to the point that they are no longer able to mate.  At this point you have a new species.  

For the record I don't hate you, you really did sound depressed

Adaptability is a programming feature, not an evolution feature. 

[BitChick]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

Should we accept that?  

Like I said earlier, if I am wrong what is the cost? (I followed the Bible, tried to love others with God's help, lived a joyful life only to realize at death that it was for nothing?)

For those that believe this life is all there is, what is their cost? (eternal punishment with weeping and gnashing of teeth in flames of fire)

One of these choices is riskier than the other it appears.

If all you're doing is keeping to yourself and having the occasional debate with nonbelievers, there is little cost.

However, the cost that most of us object to comes from religious folks who are so convinced they are right, they have to force other people to accept their personal truth through the use of force. I'm talking about forcing people to convert (as the christian church has a long history of doing), and using your religious texts as justification to pass laws that restrict the freedom of others (banning gay marriage and every other act that you find personally offensive because Jesus or some such).

If I believe to the core of my being that the Bible is true and that those that do not accept Jesus will spend an eternity in hell, what kind of person would I be if I did not care about others enough to share this with them?  Seriously!

The reason Christians seem so "opinionated" is that many of us really care deeply for you.  We know that God loves everyone and that God wants everyone to come to know him and to repent so that you won't have to suffer for eternity.

Of course, there are Christians that do try to force their beliefs on others.  I wrestle with this myself.  On the one side we can have a "live and let live" kind of mentality.  God does give us the respect to make our own decisions while we are on this earth. (We will all eventually be accountable for these decisions after death I believe though)  But the big problem I have with society allowing for certain "freedoms" is that with them comes the problem of a world that is even more hostile to God's Word and God's laws and even less people will learn about God and accept Jesus.  When the world turns from God there are negative consequences for that as well.  A Godless society leads to problems and even a more prevalent rejection of His Word.  We are seeing a cultural shift take place all around us now.  We have removed God from the schools.  Kids are not even taught anything from the Bible.  Prayer is being banned.  The movement is definitely towards sexual expression in any way that a person chooses.  If a person even mentions what the Bible says about things they are ridiculed and called judgmental.  We are being forced to go into retreat because no one really wants to hear what God says about anything and soon we will even be killed for just being a Christian (which is already happening in some countries).  It seems like Christians are now the ones being "forced" to believe in evolution, homosexuality, abortion and so on.  But how do we agree with something we know goes against the God we love and that loves us and is our eternal salvation?  We can't.  

[(oYo)]

The fact that you believe this life is all there is a very sad and depressing thought.

Herein lies the truth. Religious folk simply can't accept that this is their one and only life.

There is absolutely nothing in evolution theory that suggests a way that the diversity and complexity in nature could have happened.

In the face of the laws of probability along with the apparent entropy we see all around, evolution is an absolute impossibility.

In fact, the continual political-like hollering of atheists and others is the only thing that keeps the idea of evolution alive.

With the creation of the Internet, as people come to realize the truth that evolution is impossible, even the hollering will soon die.

It's actually quite simple really. A change in environment causes evolutionary changes in species in an attempt to adapt better to said environment. If there was no diversity in environments then perhaps your statement may have a chance to hold true. Then again maybe you're right and god just made different races of people to give us another reason to go to hell for being racist. Yeah, that makes more sense.  

[cooldgamer]

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

I love the beauty of God's creation that I see all around me.  I love the people that I am thankful to have relationships with.  I love the people that speak with on these boards, even if they hate me and say I need a psychiatrist.

But I also see the misery of life and the hate (due to Satan's influence) that causes people to kill, steal and destroy.  There is evil all around us.  You must be marvelously blessed to have avoided the sufferings that are common to man?  Seriously.  We all deal with death, pain, sickness and so on.  This is not how God intended for us to live.  It is part of the fact we live in a fallen and not perfect world, one that eventually He will make right again.  

Dog breeding produces dogs right?  Has anyone bred a dog to become a cat?  Until I can see changes from one kind into another kind I will not believe in evolution.  There have been adaptations but these adaptations are not proof of evolution from one kind into another.  We as humans have more in common with dogs than apes so looking at the physical bodies to make comparisons is not enough.

You don't have to agree with me.   You don't have to believe in God.  That is the amazing thing about "free will."  I am just trying to encourage a few people on here to think about the risks of not believing.  If something is true then it doesn't matter if I believe it or you believe it or if any of us believes it.  If God's word is true then we will all be accountable to it.  

My point about "satanism" was just an interesting fact.  There is no other religion that has an "anti-religion" formed to fight it.  It was not proof by any means. I just figured it was an interesting thought that should at least cause us to pause and think for a minute.

You pretty much just admitted that evolution exists.  Macro evolution (changing species) is nothing more than micro evolution (changing traits) over a long period of time, to the point that one is not able to breed with another, and you have a new species just like that.  Think about domesticated dogs vs wolves and how different they are.  Over time they will become more and more different, to the point that they are no longer able to mate.  At this point you have a new species.  

For the record I don't hate you, you really did sound depressed

Adaptability is a programming feature, not an evolution feature. 

What?  You're denying survival of the fittest?  Seriously?  *facedesk*

[BitChick]

Please talk to a psychiatrist, you seem to have very severe depression if you hate living on this planet.  Not even being Sarcastic.

Back to the topic, the science of evolution is based on observation.  We have made organisms evolve in a lab right before our eyes.  Dog breeding works the same except with humans deciding which traits to keep instead of nature.  We can observe our common ancestors by looking at the body compared to other primates.  While the fossil record is not complete, what we have so far points to evolution.  

I don't believe in spiderman because there are fans of his enemies, that is pretty much the logic you're going on for saying satanism proves it.  Same with saying gods word proves it, says so right there in the comic that he is real!

I love the beauty of God's creation that I see all around me.  I love the people that I am thankful to have relationships with.  I love the people that speak with on these boards, even if they hate me and say I need a psychiatrist.

But I also see the misery of life and the hate (due to Satan's influence) that causes people to kill, steal and destroy.  There is evil all around us.  You must be marvelously blessed to have avoided the sufferings that are common to man?  Seriously.  We all deal with death, pain, sickness and so on.  This is not how God intended for us to live.  It is part of the fact we live in a fallen and not perfect world, one that eventually He will make right again.  

Dog breeding produces dogs right?  Has anyone bred a dog to become a cat?  Until I can see changes from one kind into another kind I will not believe in evolution.  There have been adaptations but these adaptations are not proof of evolution from one kind into another.  We as humans have more in common with dogs than apes so looking at the physical bodies to make comparisons is not enough.

You don't have to agree with me.   You don't have to believe in God.  That is the amazing thing about "free will."  I am just trying to encourage a few people on here to think about the risks of not believing.  If something is true then it doesn't matter if I believe it or you believe it or if any of us believes it.  If God's word is true then we will all be accountable to it.  

My point about "satanism" was just an interesting fact.  There is no other religion that has an "anti-religion" formed to fight it.  It was not proof by any means. I just figured it was an interesting thought that should at least cause us to pause and think for a minute.

You pretty much just admitted that evolution exists.  Macro evolution (changing species) is nothing more than micro evolution (changing traits) over a long period of time, to the point that one is not able to breed with another, and you have a new species just like that.  Think about domesticated dogs vs wolves and how different they are.  Over time they will become more and more different, to the point that they are no longer able to mate (this would be if they were in the wild, doesn't really apply since pets aren't going to be subjected to survival of the fittest but irrelevant to the example).  At this point you have a new species.  

For the record I don't hate you, you really did sound depressed

Macro and Micro evolution are very different!  We have not seen evidence of macro evolution (changes of a fish to a dog for example).  The solution that evolutionary scientists give is just to throw "millions of years" into the equation so that they can rationalize that it took that long to happen. (still not long enough)  If the changes that occur cause differences that make it so the species cannot mate isn't that an evolutionary problem in itself?  Creationists completely agree with "micro evolution" because it is simply adaptations or changing of traits within a species.  It is such a huge jump from changes within a species to changes outside of a species though, one that has no fossil record or evidence to support whatsoever.

[My Name Was Taken]

If I believe to the core of my being that the Bible is true and that those that do not accept Jesus will spend an eternity in hell, what kind of person would I be if I did not care about others enough to share this with them?  Seriously!

You'd be the kind of person who recognized that just as you have your own truth that god exists, other people have their own truth that he doesn't, and that just as convinced that you are that it is impossible to be wrong, they are just as convinced that it is impossible to be wrong. You'd be the kind of person who recognized that personal truth is personal, and while not universal (meaning everyone has their own personal truths), they are absolute, meaning nothing you can say can change them. And you'd also be the type of person who is considerate for respecting other people's beliefs, and not condescending by thinking your beliefs trump theirs and you have to "fix" them.

Morality doesn't come from religion. It comes from empathy and the realization that inflicting harm on another person is wrong. Religions teach that no matter what you do to other people, as long as you're serving god you'll go to heaven. Atheists believe that you have one life, so allowing other people to be harmed makes you a bad person, because those people also have one life, and it should not be subject to suffering. That's the world I see without religion. One where "serving god" can't be used as an excuse to inflict harm on other people.