[XMR] Monero Speculation

[iCEBREAKER]

For the love of God can some exchange please let me buy XMR with US Dollars.  I mean really, I hate Bitcoin transaction speeds.  Over an hour now to transfer BTC from Coinbase to HitBTC.   Another reason Bitcoin is falling behind not enough nodes out there to process payments or transactions faster.   Ok rant over.

Actually, that would not speed transactions because the same average number of blocks would be found per hour.

What you really are ranting about is block size...

Coinbase creates two (apparently low-fee) tx for every BTC withdrawal.  They are flooding the system to push the Classic agenda.

Solution?  Stop using CoinBank!

[phishead]

For the love of God can some exchange please let me buy XMR with US Dollars.  I mean really, I hate Bitcoin transaction speeds.  Over an hour now to transfer BTC from Coinbase to HitBTC.   Another reason Bitcoin is falling behind not enough nodes out there to process payments or transactions faster.   Ok rant over.

More generally, a simple, private method for xmr <-> Fiat conversion would be a killer feature.

I was thinking the other night about something that could possibly fix this issue, in a "thinking outside the box" type of way.  When thinking about this, I was thinking "for the sake of anonymity" rather than the cost of how to do something like this.

It is no doubt that the most anonymous way to buy Bitcoins is to buy in cash.  People are sometimes hesitant to do something like this, because that would have to involve a high amount of trust to the seller that the person won't just rob you and probably would be hard to coordinate a time and place that would satisfy both the buyer and the seller... and so on.

The better suggestion would be then to tell someone to go to a Bitcoin ATM.  Problem with this is the obvious one that there are usually no Bitcoin ATM's in someones location and that person would have to travel hundreds of miles to go somewhere, usually a big city, that has one of these things at some store.

So here is what I was thinking:

Now I know that this would require some initial investment from the buyer... but here it goes.
What if you could order a small "safe" that could be shipped to someones house that is capable of hooking up to wifi or just a direct internet connection.  It could be shipped via UPS to someones door or P.O. box, and then you can use that "safe" to connect to some theoretical exchange site; where you can insert fiat into the machine (kind of like a vending machine) that allows you to "purchase" XMR.

Each time you insert X amount of fiat in the machine, it allows you to purchase Y amount of XMR in USD/XMR; rather than BTC/XMR through the exchange at that specific point in time.  You can keep the machine as long as you'd like, and while you keep the machine, every XMR you purchase will be kept in cold storage held by the exchange.  Then when you feel like "cashing in" on all the XMR you have purchased, you can ship back your "safe" to the exchange address.  Finally the people at the exchange would be able to check that the safe hasn't been tampered with and also that the correct amount of fiat is in the safe; which then afterward they will release XMR to your specified address.

---

I know this would require some initial investment on part of the people who would want to run an exchange (plus the people wanting to purchase XMR) like this; but I feel like this would be an absolute killer way to purchase XMR, and cryptocurrencies in general; which would be purchased with spare cash they have on hand, not having to deal with banks, somewhat anonymous (especially when sending to a P.O box), etc.

Could just be a pipe dream I had though... whatever, I thought I would share with you guys though.  

[iCEBREAKER]

a simple, private method for xmr <-> Fiat conversion would be a killer feature.

LocalBitcoins --> Shapeshift

XMR.to --> LocalBitcoins

[iCEBREAKER]

Kraken seems to be the one most people suggest to harass for a XMR-USD pair.  I put my 2 cents in their suggestion box.  If we all do the same, it could lead somewhere. ..
Even if they only did XMR-XBT it would eliminate the bitcoin transfer delay.

If Kraken added XMR, perhaps their ETH volume would suck less (in comparison to Polo).

[iCEBREAKER]

Bitcoin similarly spiked after the first exchange.  

I observe that, if you disinclude the listing spike, in USD terms, the recent highs were in fact all-time highs.  (Mentioned since the ATH is so fetishized.)

The early fiat hyperinflation to $5 is just a preview of the future.  It indicates people look at Monero and are then willing to pay $5 fiat fun-bucks for a single coin.

That situation, where demand is vastly greater than the supply, only existed in the early days when total emission was low, but shortages may return as block subsidies inexorably decline.

[Quicken]

a simple, private method for xmr <-> Fiat conversion would be a killer feature.

LocalBitcoins --> Shapeshift

XMR.to --> LocalBitcoins

That isn't Xmr:fiat
It's Xmr:btc:fiat

One transaction and no btc would be much, much better.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Bitcoin similarly spiked after the first exchange.  

I observe that, if you disinclude the listing spike, in USD terms, the recent highs were in fact all-time highs.  (Mentioned since the ATH is so fetishized.)

The early fiat hyperinflation to $5 is just a preview of the future.  It indicates people look at Monero and are then willing to pay $5 fiat fun-bucks for a single coin.

That situation, where demand is vastly greater than the supply, only existed in the early days when total emission was low, but shortages may return as block subsidies inexorably decline.

You are absolutely right.
The killer might be a Monero fund. It will basically bring Monero to ridiculous heights if excecuted in a proper manner.
Hedge funds are constantly seeking for returns. From stock markets, bonds and raw materials the returns are pretty unlikely.
However, when they find Monero and start fighting for the tacoshis it is a day when a person owning 1 whole Monero is the King giving orders.  
Bear in mind, Monero is scarce and on the very day a person with big money buying in will make it even more frustrating to small guys attempting to buy crums of Monero.
These days may not be long way from now. Someone with good pitching skills (icebreaker or american Pegasus for instance) could start pitching all the hedge fund managers in the world. It is enough if only 5 will participate to the war. Taking action in this manner will bring Monero even as high as 1 000 000 usd/xmr so even a modest investment will make you rich. The more you invest the sooner you will be rich. The smaller the investment the more patient you need to be.

[phishead]

Bitcoin similarly spiked after the first exchange.  

I observe that, if you disinclude the listing spike, in USD terms, the recent highs were in fact all-time highs.  (Mentioned since the ATH is so fetishized.)

The early fiat hyperinflation to $5 is just a preview of the future.  It indicates people look at Monero and are then willing to pay $5 fiat fun-bucks for a single coin.

That situation, where demand is vastly greater than the supply, only existed in the early days when total emission was low, but shortages may return as block subsidies inexorably decline.

--snip--
These days may not be long way from now. Someone with good pitching skills (icebreaker or american Pegasus for instance) could start pitching all the hedge fund managers in the world. It is enough if only 5 will participate to the war. Taking action in this manner will bring Monero even as high as 1 000 000 usd/xmr so even a modest investment will make you rich. The more you invest the sooner you will be rich. The smaller the investment the more patient you need to be.

While I do love reading their posts, I think in the eyes of a typical hedge fund manager, they will seem like someone who has unrealistic aspirations for something the person they are pitching too hardly knows anything about.  Now, if they were to learn to tone it down a notch and pitch this stuff in a way fluffypony would, which is in a more realistic and conservative manner, then I think they would be willing to listen a lot more.

I mean, I still think we have a long way to go before hedge fund managers will be looking toward cryptocurrencies to put their investors funds into.  There's an incredible amount of material to teach people about what's factual about cryptos and what's not.  There's still a stigma around cryptos that it's only for criminals on the dark web... so in that aspect, there would need to be someone to present the facts to people such as hedge fund managers; rather than promising yachts. 

Please take no offense, but it's really unrealistic to promise someone thousands or millions of dollars for something that's so far in its infancy.

[explorer]

Buying the price rapidly up to $1 000 000 is more than a little ridiculous.  Even several large accumulators would not do that.  OTC buys would be more likely, which would have less effect on exchange prices.  Even buying on exchange though, the realstic methods would be to eliminate price drops, while working the price higher like the inexorable (there's that lovely word again) tide.  Kind of like, oh, I don't know... 2016 so far 

[DaveyJones]

Bitcoin similarly spiked after the first exchange.  

I observe that, if you disinclude the listing spike, in USD terms, the recent highs were in fact all-time highs.  (Mentioned since the ATH is so fetishized.)

The early fiat hyperinflation to $5 is just a preview of the future.  It indicates people look at Monero and are then willing to pay $5 fiat fun-bucks for a single coin.

That situation, where demand is vastly greater than the supply, only existed in the early days when total emission was low, but shortages may return as block subsidies inexorably decline.

--snip--
These days may not be long way from now. Someone with good pitching skills (icebreaker or american Pegasus for instance) could start pitching all the hedge fund managers in the world. It is enough if only 5 will participate to the war. Taking action in this manner will bring Monero even as high as 1 000 000 usd/xmr so even a modest investment will make you rich. The more you invest the sooner you will be rich. The smaller the investment the more patient you need to be.

While I do love reading their posts, I think in the eyes of a typical hedge fund manager, they will seem like someone who has unrealistic aspirations for something the person they are pitching too hardly knows anything about.  Now, if they were to learn to tone it down a notch and pitch this stuff in a way fluffypony would, which is in a more realistic and conservative manner, then I think they would be willing to listen a lot more.

I mean, I still think we have a long way to go before hedge fund managers will be looking toward cryptocurrencies to put their investors funds into.  There's an incredible amount of material to teach people about what's factual about cryptos and what's not.  There's still a stigma around cryptos that it's only for criminals on the dark web... so in that aspect, there would need to be someone to present the facts to people such as hedge fund managers; rather than promising yachts. 

Please take no offense, but it's really unrealistic to promise someone thousands or millions of dollars for something that's so far in its infancy.

imo that is very unlikely to happen... why should someone raise this so high and create something like mining cartels who fight for the emission that is never to stop with the tail emission?

[iCEBREAKER]

The killer might be a Monero fund. It will basically bring Monero to ridiculous heights if excecuted in a proper manner.
Hedge funds are constantly seeking for returns. From stock markets, bonds and raw materials the returns are pretty unlikely.
However, when they find Monero and start fighting for the tacoshis it is a day when a person owning 1 whole Monero is the King giving orders.  
Bear in mind, Monero is scarce and on the very day a person with big money buying in will make it even more frustrating to small guys attempting to buy crums of Monero.
These days may not be long way from now. Someone with good pitching skills (icebreaker or american Pegasus for instance) could start pitching all the hedge fund managers in the world. It is enough if only 5 will participate to the war.

Bitcoin is already doing much of the heavy lifting involved in starting such funds.

GBTC provides a template for an end-run around the obstacles the Winky COIN ETF is facing (years of paper pushing, bribes, lobbying).

If amino's meeting with the VC goes well, perhaps they'll look into creating parallel structures in the Monero space.

I'd love pitching to innovative Greyscale/Silbert types (not "typical" hedge fund managers) an OTC 'GXMR' investment trust and/or 'PONY' ETF.

One obstacle XMR faces is that unlike BTC its codebase is fairly obscure and not thoroughly reviewed/commented/reimplemented.

We need to make it easier for Kraken types to examine/test/scale the code to their satisfaction.

The roadmap takes us to Enterprise Ready Monero, but we should try to involve enterprises in the work of getting there, since it is to their benefit.

For example, if I wanted to make 'Coinbase for Monero' the first thing I'd do is make an equivalent to Toshi, perhaps by porting bitmonerod to Rust+Scala.

[phishead]

--snip--
These days may not be long way from now. Someone with good pitching skills (icebreaker or american Pegasus for instance) could start pitching all the hedge fund managers in the world. It is enough if only 5 will participate to the war. Taking action in this manner will bring Monero even as high as 1 000 000 usd/xmr so even a modest investment will make you rich. The more you invest the sooner you will be rich. The smaller the investment the more patient you need to be.

While I do love reading their posts, I think in the eyes of a typical hedge fund manager, they will seem like someone who has unrealistic aspirations for something the person they are pitching too hardly knows anything about.  Now, if they were to learn to tone it down a notch and pitch this stuff in a way fluffypony would, which is in a more realistic and conservative manner, then I think they would be willing to listen a lot more.

I mean, I still think we have a long way to go before hedge fund managers will be looking toward cryptocurrencies to put their investors funds into.  There's an incredible amount of material to teach people about what's factual about cryptos and what's not.  There's still a stigma around cryptos that it's only for criminals on the dark web... so in that aspect, there would need to be someone to present the facts to people such as hedge fund managers; rather than promising yachts. 

Please take no offense, but it's really unrealistic to promise someone thousands or millions of dollars for something that's so far in its infancy.

imo that is very unlikely to happen... why should someone raise this so high and create something like mining cartels who fight for the emission that is never to stop with the tail emission?

Well the scenario that hedge fund managers even taking the time to listen to someone promoting an altcoin to bitcoin, which is regarded as a criminal tool used to buy drugs, guns, etc; is just as highly unlikely as well.  Theoretically speaking, I would think talking to someone in a more conservative manner while presenting facts about the pros and cons of XMR looks better than promising 1000X per investment right off the bat... looks less like a scam in my mind, and I would think the same for investors who have no idea what the uses for cryptos are; besides what the media portrays.

[binaryFate]

[...]
Taking action in this manner will bring Monero even as high as 1 000 000 usd/xmr so even a modest investment will make you rich. The more you invest the sooner you will be rich.
 [...]

Ok, I decided. This is so bullshitty (especially the get rich quick / get certainly rich promise) that even if you're still "bullish" you're not just slightly annoying you're actively detrimental to the S/R as you keep throwing crazy stuff that fit your agenda. I don't like you.
Nah.

"When I do not own Moneros I am uber bullshitty. When I hold a bag I am uber bullshitty."

[dEBRUYNE]

Frankly, hedge funds won't invest in Monero until they have an easy way to do so where they don't have to worry about storage (e.g. an ETF/ETN). Furthermore, because of the high volatility they likely won't invest more than 0.01% of their portfolio, if even. Moreover, it might be simply too much of a hassle to research for such a small percentage of their portfolio.

[binaryFate]

For the love of God can some exchange please let me buy XMR with US Dollars.  I mean really, I hate Bitcoin transaction speeds.  Over an hour now to transfer BTC from Coinbase to HitBTC.   Another reason Bitcoin is falling behind not enough nodes out there to process payments or transactions faster.   Ok rant over.

More generally, a simple, private method for xmr <-> Fiat conversion would be a killer feature.

I was thinking the other night about something that could possibly fix this issue, in a "thinking outside the box" type of way.  When thinking about this, I was thinking "for the sake of anonymity" rather than the cost of how to do something like this.

It is no doubt that the most anonymous way to buy Bitcoins is to buy in cash.  People are sometimes hesitant to do something like this, because that would have to involve a high amount of trust to the seller that the person won't just rob you and probably would be hard to coordinate a time and place that would satisfy both the buyer and the seller... and so on.

The better suggestion would be then to tell someone to go to a Bitcoin ATM.  Problem with this is the obvious one that there are usually no Bitcoin ATM's in someones location and that person would have to travel hundreds of miles to go somewhere, usually a big city, that has one of these things at some store.

So here is what I was thinking:

Now I know that this would require some initial investment from the buyer... but here it goes.
What if you could order a small "safe" that could be shipped to someones house that is capable of hooking up to wifi or just a direct internet connection.  It could be shipped via UPS to someones door or P.O. box, and then you can use that "safe" to connect to some theoretical exchange site; where you can insert fiat into the machine (kind of like a vending machine) that allows you to "purchase" XMR.

Each time you insert X amount of fiat in the machine, it allows you to purchase Y amount of XMR in USD/XMR; rather than BTC/XMR through the exchange at that specific point in time.  You can keep the machine as long as you'd like, and while you keep the machine, every XMR you purchase will be kept in cold storage held by the exchange.  Then when you feel like "cashing in" on all the XMR you have purchased, you can ship back your "safe" to the exchange address.  Finally the people at the exchange would be able to check that the safe hasn't been tampered with and also that the correct amount of fiat is in the safe; which then afterward they will release XMR to your specified address.

---

I know this would require some initial investment on part of the people who would want to run an exchange (plus the people wanting to purchase XMR) like this; but I feel like this would be an absolute killer way to purchase XMR, and cryptocurrencies in general; which would be purchased with spare cash they have on hand, not having to deal with banks, somewhat anonymous (especially when sending to a P.O box), etc.

Could just be a pipe dream I had though... whatever, I thought I would share with you guys though.  

Interesting. The physical safe is a bit of stretch, huge overhead and hardly secure anyway. If your goal is to avoid that people run away with the safe instead of going to the exchange after a certain time (maybe they prefer to runaway because the price evolution is not in their favor) this is not feasible. If you have time you can break *anything* and retrieve the cash.
What about you get rid of the safe all-together? You'd simply get your XMR when you actually bring the proper amount of cash, that's all.
Economically, to prevent people to just keep their cash instead of collecting the XMR if price is in the exchange defavor, you could ask for a collateral initially.

[nioc]

Cash to XMR is already available using AltQuik (sp?) as long as you are not in New York

[dEBRUYNE]

Cash to XMR is already available using AltQuik (sp?) as long as you are not in New York

sp?

Link btw -> https://www.altquick.co/buy-2.php?coin=XMR

[nioc]

Cash to XMR is already available using AltQuik (sp?) as long as you are not in New York

sp?

Link btw -> https://www.altquick.co/buy-2.php?coin=XMR

thanks on my phone and driving, smiley

[phishead]

I was thinking the other night about something that could possibly fix this issue, in a "thinking outside the box" type of way.  When thinking about this, I was thinking "for the sake of anonymity" rather than the cost of how to do something like this.

It is no doubt that the most anonymous way to buy Bitcoins is to buy in cash.  People are sometimes hesitant to do something like this, because that would have to involve a high amount of trust to the seller that the person won't just rob you and probably would be hard to coordinate a time and place that would satisfy both the buyer and the seller... and so on.

The better suggestion would be then to tell someone to go to a Bitcoin ATM.  Problem with this is the obvious one that there are usually no Bitcoin ATM's in someones location and that person would have to travel hundreds of miles to go somewhere, usually a big city, that has one of these things at some store.

So here is what I was thinking:

Now I know that this would require some initial investment from the buyer... but here it goes.
What if you could order a small "safe" that could be shipped to someones house that is capable of hooking up to wifi or just a direct internet connection.  It could be shipped via UPS to someones door or P.O. box, and then you can use that "safe" to connect to some theoretical exchange site; where you can insert fiat into the machine (kind of like a vending machine) that allows you to "purchase" XMR.

Each time you insert X amount of fiat in the machine, it allows you to purchase Y amount of XMR in USD/XMR; rather than BTC/XMR through the exchange at that specific point in time.  You can keep the machine as long as you'd like, and while you keep the machine, every XMR you purchase will be kept in cold storage held by the exchange.  Then when you feel like "cashing in" on all the XMR you have purchased, you can ship back your "safe" to the exchange address.  Finally the people at the exchange would be able to check that the safe hasn't been tampered with and also that the correct amount of fiat is in the safe; which then afterward they will release XMR to your specified address.

---

I know this would require some initial investment on part of the people who would want to run an exchange (plus the people wanting to purchase XMR) like this; but I feel like this would be an absolute killer way to purchase XMR, and cryptocurrencies in general; which would be purchased with spare cash they have on hand, not having to deal with banks, somewhat anonymous (especially when sending to a P.O box), etc.

Could just be a pipe dream I had though... whatever, I thought I would share with you guys though.  

Interesting. The physical safe is a bit of stretch, huge overhead and hardly secure anyway. If your goal is to avoid that people run away with the safe instead of going to the exchange after a certain time (maybe they prefer to runaway because the price evolution is not in their favor) this is not feasible. If you have time you can break *anything* and retrieve the cash.
What about you get rid of the safe all-together? You'd simply get your XMR when you actually bring the proper amount of cash, that's all.
Economically, to prevent people to just keep their cash instead of collecting the XMR if price is in the exchange defavor, you could ask for a collateral initially.

Cash to XMR is already available using AltQuik (sp?) as long as you are not in New York

sp?

Link btw -> https://www.altquick.co/buy-2.php?coin=XMR

Well the whole purpose of what I was trying to propose was that you can exchange physical cash to XMR.  I personally just don't like having to deal with banks and feel that it is possible that there will be a time where banks will ban, or severely reduce/regulate all transactions to these exchange sites for Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrencies such as XMR.

With the concerns of breaking the "safe" to get cash if XMR prices go south, I feel there can potentially be a way to alert the exchange site if the thing that is collecting the cash has been tampered with in any way; then when that theoretically happens, funds could go out of your cold storage.

I guess you could simply just send cash through mail... but that is a lot less secure I would think.  I wouldn't know what kind of overhead would have to go through all of this, but it was just a thought that I conjured up and wanted to hear what feedback you guys had.  I just feel the same way as others when I hear people say, "Man, I wish I could just convert my cash instantly to [insert coin here]".  It would just be nice to have something sitting in the corner of the room and deposit some change or spare fiat lying around to XMR, and then send it back whenever.  The exchange online would be able to track how much you have purchased at some given time, and then update your account on the exchange site to say you have "this much" XMR.

[aminorex]

Frankly, hedge funds won't invest in Monero until they have an easy way to do so where they don't have to worry about storage (e.g. an ETF/ETN). Furthermore, because of the high volatility they likely won't invest more than 0.01% of their portfolio, if even. Moreover, it might be simply too much of a hassle to research for such a small percentage of their portfolio.

Its a tail risk hedge, with incredibly asymmetric return profile.  They understand that.  FX derivative people especially understand it.  The employees will buy it for their own book first.  Then they will offer it to customers if they see a personal benefit in doing so -- that won't be until customers are asking about it though.