[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Benchman]

+1.

Bought some ETH + XMR.

It was pretty quiet last months, it's time to see some movements in ALTs.

[pa]

But let's not pointlessly argue.

No, instead, let pointfully recognize how friggin awesome Monero is.

I mean I still don't get peoples hurdle to it. Then again, I talk to people that don't get Bitcoin, so its not that far of  stretch to imagine that monero is impossible to understand.

I mean, how did the Internet become popular? Its a set of protocols, and the protocols provide information. People apparently love information. Can;t get enough of it.

Cryptocurrencies are different though. Its a similar breakthrough in protocol and ability - but much like the original software was possibly never imagined to do the things its doing now, wtf will monero be doing?

My prediction: KYC ultimately goes away. The internet is a giant meshnet like hyperboria, and web sites are hashed and served p2p (like IPFS or bitTorrent). This means all content is immutable and censorship free. All requests require a micro-payment sent to the seeder. Anyone can surf or stream for free as long as they also seed content to others for payment.

Could this be Monero's killer app? A decentralized, bitTorrent-like p2p network where leechers pay seeders to serve them content?

I love this idea. Would be a new basis for freedom of speech and association and commerce.

[KeyJockey]

My prediction: KYC ultimately goes away. The internet is a giant meshnet like hyperboria, and web sites are hashed and served p2p (like IPFS or bitTorrent). This means all content is immutable and censorship free. All requests require a micro-payment sent to the seeder. Anyone can surf or stream for free as long as they also seed content to others for payment.

Could this be Monero's killer app? A decentralized, bitTorrent-like p2p network where leechers pay seeders to serve them content?

What you wrote there pretty much describes MaidSafe.

Thing is... they have not gotten to the actual implementation part of the SafeCoin yet so I could see some scenario where SAFE actually could maybe implement Monero on top instead.  Or in addition to, same as how BTC and XMR may happily co-exist each serving a specific niche need (open transparent gold store of value and closed private secure cash transaction medium, respectfully).

One of the biggest interesting things about MaidSafe to me is that its crypto SafeCoin doesn't have or need ANY "blockchain" (since apparently the native file storage architecture of serverless websites IS the "hard disk" itself, so the "blockchain" will just live on that.

Or... something like that.  LOL.  

I still don't fully grok exactly what those guys are doing but I bought into it a few years ago in their crowdsale for like 4 cents per MaidSafeCoin.  I put just ONE bitcoin into it back then, totally on a whim, just because I was impressed that they're trying to build something SO AMBITIOUS.  So far MaidSafeCoin is my second-best performing crypto investment, beaten only by Monero after XMR's stellar 2016 performance

Anyway sorry for the derail again... back to Monero Speculation.

You guys think THIS bump last couple days is really the launch of our expected SPRING RALLY...?  Or is this a head-fake and still too early?

[Thenoticer]

My prediction: KYC ultimately goes away. The internet is a giant meshnet like hyperboria, and web sites are hashed and served p2p (like IPFS or bitTorrent). This means all content is immutable and censorship free. All requests require a micro-payment sent to the seeder. Anyone can surf or stream for free as long as they also seed content to others for payment.

Could this be Monero's killer app? A decentralized, bitTorrent-like p2p network where leechers pay seeders to serve them content?

Already mostly exists... Zeronet

Google " zeronet zerohello proxy" its free and already exists

Zerohello is a good viewing window without having to dl anything.

https://bit.no.com:43110/1HeLLo4uzjaLetFx6NH3PMwFP3qbRbTf3D

[iCEBREAKER]

How would BTC ETF approval next month affect XMRBTC and XMRUSD over the next 3 months & the next year?

The ETF will amplify BTC volatility, which means increasingly noisy price signals for Monero in the short/mid term.

But that's not important.

The key new fundamental here is the looming probability/inevitability of Monero ETFs.

Silbert already made one for ETC.  XMR is part of ICONOMI and should be part of Polychain Capital, etc.   

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

It's more complicated than that.

Win 3.0 was bundled with PCs.  IBM wouldn't support non-IBM peripherals. And so on...  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup)

The best version of OS2 is called "Windows NT" (which I ran for almost a decade and sorely miss).   

[Monerobuyer]

XMR can't lose because anonymity and fungibility is the the raison d'etre of cryptocurrency. People just haven't realized it yet.

[KeyJockey]

... anonymity and fungibility is the the raison d'etre of cryptocurrency.

<sigh>... I want to emphasize again that just saying fungibility is probably enough, when talking to people about Monero.

IMHO the "anonymity" element is still too polarizing and can be used too much as a red herring argument to try and discredit the value of TRUE DIGITAL CASH as "something that's only good for criminals pedophiles and terrorists".

So, hey! Let's not even give 'em that opening anymore, am I right?

If you have full true fungibility then you're gonna get anonymity too, basically just by default.  Ya can't have it any other way really, even if someone doesn't particularly care, or thinks they don't necessarily WANT anonymity for whatever incorrect reason they believe in.

Ya just have to take the "good" (fungible/anonymous) with the "bad" (anonymous/fungible) LOL

When talking about what makes something an honest-to-god actual "currency" it's not really possible to argue *against* having fungibility... not at least without looking stupid.

So, to me... that's enough.  IMHO we should not even bother trying to "sell" anon as a good thing any more.  People either already KNOW that, or they won't be convinced no matter how much we try. 

But the fungibility SALE is an easy slam dunk

[Hueristic]

How would BTC ETF approval next month affect XMRBTC and XMRUSD over the next 3 months & the next year?

The ETF will amplify BTC volatility, which means increasingly noisy price signals for Monero in the short/mid term.

But that's not important.

The key new fundamental here is the looming probability/inevitability of Monero ETFs.

Silbert already made one for ETC.  XMR is part of ICONOMI and should be part of Polychain Capital, etc.  

I don't think this is going to help BTC's EFT at all.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawyer-linked-to-martin-shkreli-arrested-on-fraud-charge-1450393836
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/former-hedge-fund-manager-and-new-york-attorney-indicted-in-multi-million-dollar-fraud-scheme

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

It's more complicated than that.

Win 3.0 was bundled with PCs.  IBM wouldn't support non-IBM peripherals. And so on...  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup)

The best version of OS2 is called "Windows NT" (which I ran for almost a decade and sorely miss).  

No Win Nt was not available for about 5 years after os2 and was primarily used for business (no directx and no backward comparability to win9x). That means no real mode driver support if you know what that is. The same thing that wiki is crying that OS2 lacked.

0s2 was a complete 32bit OS win 3.1 was 16bit layer ontop of a 8bit dos layer. Os2 did support non IBM peripherals I have no clue what your talking about there, they were just not already prewritten for the thousands of products. Any thing that was x86 compatible could have a driver written with little effort. BTW the 8088 was a 16bit chip with a 8bit address, 80286 had a 16bit address, 3086DX was 32 while the SX was 16, 486 SX/DX 32bit (SX had co-processor disabled). And thats off the top of my head so go wiki them and see if i'm right.

Wasting your time reading wiki's to make an argument is foolish, I was there and had been professionally in the market for years at that time and was one of the first 4 IBM and MAchintsh certified techs in my state. I have a clue.

From your wiki

The collaboration between IBM and Microsoft unravelled in 1990, between the releases of Windows 3.0 and OS/2 1.3. During this time, Windows 3.0 became a tremendous success, selling millions of copies in its first year.[13] Much of its success was because Windows 3.0 (along with MS-DOS) was bundled with most new computers.[14] OS/2, on the other hand, was available only as an expensive stand-alone software package. In addition, OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware

Lacking a driver does not equate to "wouldn't support". W3.1 was priced into every system when you bought it as per M$ licensing so you had to but Os2 separate that was a massive hurdle to adoption. Gates really screwed the world on this as well as many other tech stifling moves and WFW3.1 put the nail in the coffin as it was practically free and the Os2 equivalent was Approx $890 or so. BTW back then M$ wanted their OS pirated and intentionally left it that way so users could use it at home and business would adopt it because there work force was already trained with it. That was a very smart strategy on M$'s part.  BTW I was setting up all M$ OS's since M$ began.

[Hueristic]

XMR can't lose because anonymity and fungibility is the the raison d'etre of cryptocurrency. People just haven't realized it yet.

there is no doubt XMR has the best Tech in a trustless setup ATM, but sometimes that is not enough. Now that the gui is available all these whales need to pony up and get the infrastructure going. I wish I wasn't laid up, Ive had a great Idea and bought a Domain so long ago and just havn't had the drive to get it done.

Before anyone jumps in and says but everything gets funded, thats not what I mean at all.

[bobabouey2]

I don't think this is going to help BTC's EFT at all.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawyer-linked-to-martin-shkreli-arrested-on-fraud-charge-1450393836
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/former-hedge-fund-manager-and-new-york-attorney-indicted-in-multi-million-dollar-fraud-scheme

They have been using Ropes and Gray at least since amendment 6 in June 2016.  There are many reasons the ETF may not be approved, I doubt this is one. 

[iCEBREAKER]

How would BTC ETF approval next month affect XMRBTC and XMRUSD over the next 3 months & the next year?

The ETF will amplify BTC volatility, which means increasingly noisy price signals for Monero in the short/mid term.

But that's not important.

The key new fundamental here is the looming probability/inevitability of Monero ETFs.

Silbert already made one for ETC.  XMR is part of ICONOMI and should be part of Polychain Capital, etc.  

I don't think this is going to help BTC's EFT at all.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawyer-linked-to-martin-shkreli-arrested-on-fraud-charge-1450393836
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/former-hedge-fund-manager-and-new-york-attorney-indicted-in-multi-million-dollar-fraud-scheme

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

It's more complicated than that.

Win 3.0 was bundled with PCs.  IBM wouldn't support non-IBM peripherals. And so on...  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#1990:_Breakup)

The best version of OS2 is called "Windows NT" (which I ran for almost a decade and sorely miss).  

No Win Nt was not available for about 5 years after os2 and was primarily used for business (no directx and no backward comparability to win9x). That means no real mode driver support if you know what that is. The same thing that wiki is crying that OS2 lacked.

0s2 was a complete 32bit OS win 3.1 was 16bit layer ontop of a 8bit dos layer. Os2 did support non IBM peripherals I have no clue what your talking about there, they were just not already prewritten for the thousands of products. Any thing that was x86 compatible could have a driver written with little effort. BTW the 8088 was a 16bit chip with a 8bit address, 80286 had a 16bit address, 3086DX was 32 while the SX was 16, 486 SX/DX 32bit (SX had co-processor disabled). And thats off the top of my head so go wiki them and see if i'm right.

Wasting your time reading wiki's to make an argument is foolish, I was there and had been professionally in the market for years at that time and was one of the first 4 IBM and MAchintsh certified techs in my state. I have a clue.

From your wiki

The collaboration between IBM and Microsoft unravelled in 1990, between the releases of Windows 3.0 and OS/2 1.3. During this time, Windows 3.0 became a tremendous success, selling millions of copies in its first year.[13] Much of its success was because Windows 3.0 (along with MS-DOS) was bundled with most new computers.[14] OS/2, on the other hand, was available only as an expensive stand-alone software package. In addition, OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware

Lacking a driver does not equate to "wouldn't support". W3.1 was priced into every system when you bought it as per M$ licensing so you had to but Os2 separate that was a massive hurdle to adoption. Gates really screwed the world on this as well as many other tech stifling moves and WFW3.1 put the nail in the coffin as it was practically free and the Os2 equivalent was Approx $890 or so. BTW back then M$ wanted their OS pirated and intentionally left it that way so users could use it at home and business would adopt it because there work force was already trained with it. That was a very smart strategy on M$'s part.  BTW I was setting up all M$ OS's since M$ began.

What does the anti-Trump FUD about Shkreli's friend have to do with the BTC ETF, and/or the inevitability of XMR ETFs?

You don't need to tell me about 8088 blah blah blah.  I owned one.

10 years later, my work-study job was doing IT on campus.  I supported OS2 and NT systems and so am aware of their relative strengths and weaknesses.

I learn tons of stuff from Wikipedia, all the time.  Putting down information because it appears on that site is a cheap shot typical of preening snobs who lack a better argument than attacking the source source aggregator.

The person who stated "OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware" is Michal Necasek, who wrote that in a little something called "The History of OS/2."

I'll take his research (and my own recollection) over your distorted view, which seems to take pains to avoid acknowledging that NT is OS2 3.0.

Your assertion that lacking a driver does not equate to "wouldn't support" is hilarious.  Talk about a distinction without a difference!   

[Hueristic]

...
What does the anti-Trump FUD about Shkreli's friend have to do with the BTC ETF, and/or the inevitability of XMR ETFs?

You don't need to tell me about 8088 blah blah blah.  I owned one.

10 years later, my work-study job was doing IT on campus.  I supported OS2 and NT systems and so am aware of their relative strengths and weaknesses.

I learn tons of stuff from Wikipedia, all the time.  Putting down information because it appears on that site is a cheap shot typical of preening snobs who lack a better argument than attacking the source source aggregator.

The person who stated "OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware" is Michal Necasek, who wrote that in a little something called "The History of OS/2."

I'll take his research (and my own recollection) over your distorted view, which seems to take pains to avoid acknowledging that NT is OS2 3.0.

Your assertion that lacking a driver does not equate to "wouldn't support" is hilarious.  Talk about a distinction without a difference!  

Blah Blah blah right back at you, first bolded you conveniently once again fail to see the half decade Os2 was available before New Technolowgy which was primarily Server targeted.

Second bolded, nice red Herring, I never disagreed with his statement as a matter of fact I used it to point out your failure to understand the difference between "Lack" and "Would not support". Once again NT LAcked (NT didn't support by your definition) Driver support for a Huge percentage of the hardware used by the world. So you are trying to argue that NT was better than OS2 because it lacked driver support while NT lacked the same. You can't have it both ways.

Third Bolded, I'm not sure what difference you don't get the difference between not supporting (as in will never work) and driver not available at that time is One of massive proportions that is a straight out distortion of the facts which my quote from your wiki link debunks.

Try you logic fallacies on someone else you tire me son.

Ohh and AFA whether ETF will pass or not, I could care less. Your trying to argue I said it won't because of the links I supplied when I said no such thing. I said it does not help. Another Logic fallacy one your part. Maybe when you were playing with your 8088 you should have also taken a critical thinking class. Your not arguing with a dashtard troll here.

[iCEBREAKER]

...
What does the anti-Trump FUD about Shkreli's friend have to do with the BTC ETF, and/or the inevitability of XMR ETFs?

You don't need to tell me about 8088 blah blah blah.  I owned one.

10 years later, my work-study job was doing IT on campus.  I supported OS2 and NT systems and so am aware of their relative strengths and weaknesses.

I learn tons of stuff from Wikipedia, all the time.  Putting down information because it appears on that site is a cheap shot typical of preening snobs who lack a better argument than attacking the source source aggregator.

The person who stated "OS/2 lacked device drivers for many common devices such as printers, particularly non-IBM hardware" is Michal Necasek, who wrote that in a little something called "The History of OS/2."

I'll take his research (and my own recollection) over your distorted view, which seems to take pains to avoid acknowledging that NT is OS2 3.0.

Your assertion that lacking a driver does not equate to "wouldn't support" is hilarious.  Talk about a distinction without a difference!  

Blah Blah blah right back at you, first bolded you conveniently once again fail to see the half decade Os2 was available before New Technolowgy which was primarily Server targeted.

Second bolded, nice red Herring, I never disagreed with his statement as a matter of fact I used it to point out your failure to understand the difference between "Lack" and "Would not support". Once again NT LAcked (NT didn't support by your definition) Driver support for a Huge percentage of the hardware used by the world. So you are trying to argue that NT was better than OS2 because it lacked driver support while NT lacked the same. You can't have it both ways.

Third Bolded, I'm not sure what difference you don't get the difference between not supporting (as in will never work) and driver not available at that time is One of massive proportions that is a straight out distortion of the facts which my quote from your wiki link debunks.

Try you logic fallacies on someone else you tire me son.

Ohh and AFA whether ETF will pass or not, I could care less. Your trying to argue I said it won't because of the links I supplied when I said no such thing. I said it does not help. Another Logic fallacy one your part. Maybe when you were playing with your 8088 you should have also taken a critical thinking class. Your not arguing with a dashtard troll here.

I'm aware OS2 spend years failing on the desktop market before its brave attempted pivot to the back office.

The most common usage of "supports" refers to out-of-the-box turnkey support, not theoretical If-and-only-if-you-write-your-own-middleware Turing compatibility.

NT supported most common peripherals out of the box; OS2 didn't.  Sorry that you are still bitter about it two decades later.   

When my OS2 users couldn't connect to the (beastly old unstoppable tank-like) Apple laser printers and/or goddamned HP JetDirect, I would simply upgrade them to NT.  Spending time writing drivers for a soon-to-be-abandoned OS was not a viable option.

The point is that NT (aka OS2 3.0) was great for both workstations and servers and had a long successful product lifecycle, in stark contrast to the failure of OS2.

You said "I don't think this [anti-Trump FUD] is going to help BTC's EFT at all" followed by two links.

In response, I asked "What does the anti-Trump FUD about Shkreli's friend have to do with the BTC ETF, and/or the inevitability of XMR ETFs?"

I didn't say anything assuming you'd reached any kind of conclusion about the ETF approval.  I just asked WTF your links about Shkreli's friend had to do with it; I didn't "argue" anything by asking that question.  Perhaps those critical thinking classes you teach should cover the concept of non sequitur!   

[Hueristic]

...
I didn't say anything assuming you'd reached any kind of conclusion about the ETF approval.  I just asked WTF your links about Shkreli's friend had to do with it; I didn't "argue" anything by asking that question.  Perhaps those critical thinking classes you teach should cover the concept of non sequitur!  

My bad on this, I misremebered. And I could care less about trump so stop trying to sidetrack with that (yet another red herring).

Of course you upgraded Os2 systems to NT, Duh that was years later. Your missing the point of my argument is that it failed even though it was better tech than win 3.0 or 3.1 I forget which was there at the time and WFW 3.11 was the nail because it had the networking bundled in. As a matter of fact M$ killed alot of gereat tech by bundling it in windows. They outright ripped off stacker and NU had to sell or would have had the same thing happen to them.

[bobabouey2]

You said "I don't think this [anti-Trump FUD] is going to help BTC's EFT at all" followed by two links.

In response, I asked "What does the anti-Trump FUD about Shkreli's friend have to do with the BTC ETF, and/or the inevitability of XMR ETFs?"

I didn't say anything assuming you'd reached any kind of conclusion about the ETF approval.  I just asked WTF your links about Shkreli's friend had to do with it; I didn't "argue" anything by asking that question.  Perhaps those critical thinking classes you teach should cover the concept of non sequitur!   

Shkreli's lawyer who was also charged in the same proceedings, Evan Greebel,  was the lead lawyer listed as counsel to the ETF in the original couple of S1s.  After this charge, it looks like they switched law firms to Davis Polk. 

[iCEBREAKER]

...
I didn't say anything assuming you'd reached any kind of conclusion about the ETF approval.  I just asked WTF your links about Shkreli's friend had to do with it; I didn't "argue" anything by asking that question.  Perhaps those critical thinking classes you teach should cover the concept of non sequitur!  

My bad on this, I misremebered. And I could care less about trump so stop trying to sidetrack with that (yet another red herring).

Of course you upgraded Os2 systems to NT, Duh that was years later. Your missing the point of my argument is that it failed even though it was better tech than win 3.0 or 3.1 I forget which was there at the time and WFW 3.11 was the nail because it had the networking bundled in. As a matter of fact M$ killed alot of gereat tech by bundling it in windows. They outright ripped off stacker and NU had to sell or would have had the same thing happen to them.

Well, I didn't upgrade *all* the os2 systems to NT.  There was that one Wally guy who was a die hard and would not switch because "boo hoo muh precious data silo" or some such lame excuse.

I should have gone BOFH and/or Evil Ratbert on that dork.  "Ohhh geee did that circuit accidentally get switched to 220, making your stupid overpriced Genuine IBM workstation into a smoke machine?  Wow...that's just toooo baaaaadd!!"



Heh, I 'member Billgates of Borg assimilating all the 3rd party utilities.  They even got antivirus eventually!  Though CCleaner still lives....

But I'm glad to no longer be writing my own Winsock config and dealing with Cygwin or whatever in muh IP stack.   

The relevance for Monero is that "better" is a normative term, defined relative to the subjective task at hand.

OS2 may have been better in terms of under the hood technology and for power users running the latest 32 bit apps, but for users requiring compatibility with protected-mode DOS programs using the older VCPI interface, OS2 was a non-starter.

[ozkraut]

...
I didn't say anything assuming you'd reached any kind of conclusion about the ETF approval.  I just asked WTF your links about Shkreli's friend had to do with it; I didn't "argue" anything by asking that question.  Perhaps those critical thinking classes you teach should cover the concept of non sequitur!  

My bad on this, I misremebered. And I could care less about trump so stop trying to sidetrack with that (yet another red herring).

Of course you upgraded Os2 systems to NT, Duh that was years later. Your missing the point of my argument is that it failed even though it was better tech than win 3.0 or 3.1 I forget which was there at the time and WFW 3.11 was the nail because it had the networking bundled in. As a matter of fact M$ killed alot of gereat tech by bundling it in windows. They outright ripped off stacker and NU had to sell or would have had the same thing happen to them.

Well, I didn't upgrade *all* the os2 systems to NT.  There was that one Wally guy who was a die hard and would not switch because "boo hoo muh precious data silo" or some such lame excuse.

I should have gone BOFH and/or Evil Ratbert on that dork.  "Ohhh geee did that circuit accidentally get switched to 220, making your stupid overpriced Genuine IBM workstation into a smoke machine?  Wow...that's just toooo baaaaadd!!"



Heh, I 'member Billgates of Borg assimilating all the 3rd party utilities.  They even got antivirus eventually!  Though CCleaner still lives....

But I'm glad to no longer be writing my own Winsock config and dealing with Cygwin or whatever in muh IP stack.   

The relevance for Monero is that "better" is a normative term, defined relative to the subjective task at hand.

OS2 may have been better in terms of under the hood technology and for power users running the latest 32 bit apps, but for users requiring compatibility with protected-mode DOS programs using the older VCPI interface, OS2 was a non-starter.

You two! Still going on. Funny as it is I dont see much relevance to Monero and its future. This is an organically growing open source project. I dont think it shares much analogy with the wide and wonderful alleged comparisons stated. Read 'the black swan' and understand that events well outside any strategy or marketing efforts will probably make or break Monero. Its build so there is a chance that 'they will come' Thats about it. As to reminiscing: I coded in the early 80's using commodore basic on a vic 20. Bought a math copro to make an 8086 into an 8088 as certain software using loads of floats would benefit. Ran with rll hdd's slower than my internet connection now by some factor. Relevant to Monero? Dont think so.
OS2? NT? CP/M? QBasic? Beta,VHS? Who fkn cares? Bit like a bicycle falling over in Beijing....

[explorer]

buys are weak on poloniex...

1550 BTC  ATM

[Febo]

buys are weak on poloniex...

1550 BTC  ATM

Is same all day. I had not seen something liek that for ages.
at least noone can say that someone is trying to put fake buy orders.

But noone is selling anyway. Like this the volume will go back under 1000 BTC and price just slowly up when someoen will buy few k Monero.

[explorer]

buys are weak on poloniex...

1550 BTC  ATM

Is same all day. I had not seen something liek that for ages.
at least noone can say that someone is trying to put fake buy orders.

But noone is selling anyway. Like this the volume will go back under 1000 BTC and price just slowly up when someoen will buy few k Monero.

And... It's gone.  Still, a little above where it was 24 hours ago.