[XMR] Monero Speculation

[smooth]

Franky the dev community has shifted into the anti-bitcoin camp pretty hard.  As much great work as hyc_symas has done (RandomX in partcular) he seems to be prety far into the "Bitcoin is for evil rightist libertarians, and Monero is the anointed crypto" camp.

Some people, I think hyc for example, decided to work on, invest in, or support Monero specifically after evaluating Bitcoin and finding it lacking. You can't blame them for having that view, even if you don't share it. It seems to be sincerely acquired, just a somewhat different path from people who were or are Bitcoiners and also found Monero interesting.

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[cAPSLOCK]

I don't follow twitter drama so can you explain what that shit means because i'm lost?

Basically Tuman is complaining that the Bitcoin Maximalists who are beginning to embrace Monero are hurting it by not shitting all over bitcion because it is not really "peer to peer cash" (BCASH argument) and Monero is actually the anointed crypto that will eventually replace Bitcoin (actually ALSO BCASH argument).

The Maxis who are quietly beginning to embrace Monero call him a fool.

It's probably bad for my health, but this whole line has begun to irritate the shit out of me.  I disavow the Bitcoin bashing that is growing in popularity in the XMR camp.

But since that is making me just an outdated broken record, I am trying to just quit having anything to do with the "community".  But like any internet suicide I have ever seen I keep coming back like the walking dead.

I’m not sure if anyone should be shitting on BTC just to prop up XMR but I’m one of those people who think that everything people thought what BTC is, is really what XMR actually is.  From anonymity, fungibility to privacy.  So if you find me shitting on BTC as a currency, it’s not deliberate and I don’t hate BTC.  It’s just the way it is.  I mean what can we do?  It’s technically all true.

I have NO problem with this line of thought... it's true.  Monero IS what people thought Bitcoin was.  Except with a more difficult way to insure there is not hidden inflation, less ease of use, no layer 2 (yet), little hardware support and so on, and so on.

My point summed up is: do not try to outcompete Bitcoin. 

Just BE MONERO. 

That is enough.

Franky the dev community has shifted into the anti-bitcoin camp pretty hard.  As much great work as hyc_symas has done (RandomX in partcular) he seems to be prety far into the "Bitcoin is for evil rightist libertarians, and Monero is the anointed crypto" camp.

Some people, I think hyc for example, decided to work on, invest in, or support Monero specifically after evaluating Bitcoin and finding it lacking. You can't blame them for having that view, even if you don't share it. It seems to be sincerely acquired, just a somewhat different path from people who were or are Bitcoiners and also found Monero interesting.

I don't blame them for having that view at all.  That is either shifting the goal posts, or the result of my argument being badly presented.

I think majoring on "Bitcoin=Bad/Monero=Good" is a flawed position.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[smooth]

@cAPSLOCK

I was replying to this

Franky the dev community has shifted

For some people such as hyc, "Bitcoin=bad" is probably not a shift, they came to Monero with that view and at least in part because of that view.

We can obviously debate that view, or even try to convince them. That would be a different question. Let's understand that not everyone within the Monero community is or ever was "Bitcoin good, Monero better" or "Bitcoin and Monero both good". There are a variety of perspectives on the matter.

[otreza]

Right now, mining the coin is unprofitable, miners are waiting for the growth and will do everything to achieve it. Look at the profitability of mining now:

[cAPSLOCK]

@cAPSLOCK

I was replying to this

Franky the dev community has shifted

For some people such as hyc, "Bitcoin=bad" is probably not a shift, they came to Monero with that view and at least in part because of that view.

We can obviously debate that view, or even try to convince them. That would be a different question. Let's understand that not everyone within the Monero community is or ever was "Bitcoin good, Monero better" or "Bitcoin and Monero both good". There are a variety of perspectives on the matter.

It's a good distinction you are making.  I am talking about the dev community as a whole, having shifted in it's general demeanor, and I bought up a particularly important single member as an example.

You are talking about the views of the individuals that make up that group, and how they may have come in.  So in a way we are talking about exactly the same things and exactly not.

I can accept the views of individuals, and also observe that the general tenor is way more "What Bitcoin meant to be".  AND at the same time personally think that both Bitcoin and Monero have roles to fill.

[smooth]

Good points @cAPSLOCK

[gembitz]

Right now, mining the coin is unprofitable, miners are waiting for the growth and will do everything to achieve it. Look at the profitability of mining now:

^botnet miners? lol

[Hueristic]

Right now, mining the coin is unprofitable, miners are waiting for the growth and will do everything to achieve it. Look at the profitability of mining now:

^botnet miners? lol

Shit I just tried to remember our resident bonet miner and couldn't.

I think it was..ahhh just remembered!

Primer.

Trying to remember him reminded me we haven't heard from TrueTroll in years now.

[Hueristic]

Lolz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA41KkjFTuI

[tokeweed]

I don't follow twitter drama so can you explain what that shit means because i'm lost?

Basically Tuman is complaining that the Bitcoin Maximalists who are beginning to embrace Monero are hurting it by not shitting all over bitcion because it is not really "peer to peer cash" (BCASH argument) and Monero is actually the anointed crypto that will eventually replace Bitcoin (actually ALSO BCASH argument).

The Maxis who are quietly beginning to embrace Monero call him a fool.

It's probably bad for my health, but this whole line has begun to irritate the shit out of me.  I disavow the Bitcoin bashing that is growing in popularity in the XMR camp.

But since that is making me just an outdated broken record, I am trying to just quit having anything to do with the "community".  But like any internet suicide I have ever seen I keep coming back like the walking dead.

I’m not sure if anyone should be shitting on BTC just to prop up XMR but I’m one of those people who think that everything people thought what BTC is, is really what XMR actually is.  From anonymity, fungibility to privacy.  So if you find me shitting on BTC as a currency, it’s not deliberate and I don’t hate BTC.  It’s just the way it is.  I mean what can we do?  It’s technically all true.

I have NO problem with this line of thought... it's true.  Monero IS what people thought Bitcoin was.  Except with a more difficult way to insure there is not hidden inflation, less ease of use, no layer 2 (yet), little hardware support and so on, and so on.

My point summed up is: do not try to outcompete Bitcoin. 

Just BE MONERO. 

That is enough.

Is it trying to compete with Bitcoin tho?  It is technically better than BTC from a privacy perspective which in turn is starting to take away BTC’s use case as a currency for DNM’s.  It will also start creeping in all the other use cases like the store of value meme.  I mean if you hold millions worth of crypto why would you like to be exposed in a rich list somewhere.

[Hueristic]

Is it trying to compete with Bitcoin tho?  It is technically better than BTC from a privacy perspective which in turn is starting to take away BTC’s use case as a currency for DNM’s.  It will also start creeping in all the other use cases like the store of value meme.  I mean if you hold millions worth of crypto why would you like to be exposed in a rich list somewhere.

I can see how Bitcoin is a better store of wealth as Monero's intrinsic properties allow all types of fuckery from tptb and we cant prove it.

[cAPSLOCK]

I don't follow twitter drama so can you explain what that shit means because i'm lost?

Basically Tuman is complaining that the Bitcoin Maximalists who are beginning to embrace Monero are hurting it by not shitting all over bitcion because it is not really "peer to peer cash" (BCASH argument) and Monero is actually the anointed crypto that will eventually replace Bitcoin (actually ALSO BCASH argument).

The Maxis who are quietly beginning to embrace Monero call him a fool.

It's probably bad for my health, but this whole line has begun to irritate the shit out of me.  I disavow the Bitcoin bashing that is growing in popularity in the XMR camp.

But since that is making me just an outdated broken record, I am trying to just quit having anything to do with the "community".  But like any internet suicide I have ever seen I keep coming back like the walking dead.

I’m not sure if anyone should be shitting on BTC just to prop up XMR but I’m one of those people who think that everything people thought what BTC is, is really what XMR actually is.  From anonymity, fungibility to privacy.  So if you find me shitting on BTC as a currency, it’s not deliberate and I don’t hate BTC.  It’s just the way it is.  I mean what can we do?  It’s technically all true.

I have NO problem with this line of thought... it's true.  Monero IS what people thought Bitcoin was.  Except with a more difficult way to insure there is not hidden inflation, less ease of use, no layer 2 (yet), little hardware support and so on, and so on.

My point summed up is: do not try to outcompete Bitcoin. 

Just BE MONERO. 

That is enough.

Is it trying to compete with Bitcoin tho?  It is technically better than BTC from a privacy perspective which in turn is starting to take away BTC’s use case as a currency for DNM’s.  It will also start creeping in all the other use cases like the store of value meme.  I mean if you hold millions worth of crypto why would you like to be exposed in a rich list somewhere.

I am not concerned with whether Monero competes with Bitcoin.  And I think Monero is most certainly better than bitcoin at being digital cash currently.  And currently Bitcoin is better at being digital gold.

I think there is privacy coming to Bitcoin's layer 2 that will rival Monero's.  Eventually.  L-BTC already has CT baked in.  Once you hold value on that chain it has disappeared into a cloud of math.  And most maxis see liquid as a layer2 of bitcoin.  So bitcoin is already stealing some of Monero's tricks (although many maxis will point out that CT was suggested my Greg Maxwell for BITCOIN.)  Privacy on lightning is also understudied, and I think as it improves will become very strong generally.

But again, my point is not whether or not "Monero is better than Bitcoin".  My point is the Monero COMMUNITY is tilting at windmills trying to proclaim that Monero will beat bitcoin.

It's the ultimate shitcoin argument, and monero is better than that.  All it has to do is capture all the DNM traffic.  Then establish a relative security as a store of value, and then draw the politicians in.

My point is stop yelling about Bitcoin, and just let people understand why Monero is worth using.  That's what Samurai and BnGuns is doing.  And the monero community is criticizing them for being un-pure.

THAT is my point.

[Hueristic]

My point is stop yelling about Bitcoin, and just let people understand why Monero is worth using.  That's what Samurai and BnGuns is doing.  And the monero community is criticizing them for being un-pure.

THAT is my point.

You gotta stop reading twitter, maybe try Instagram.

[cAPSLOCK]

My point is stop yelling about Bitcoin, and just let people understand why Monero is worth using.  That's what Samurai and BnGuns is doing.  And the monero community is criticizing them for being un-pure.

THAT is my point.

You gotta stop reading twitter, maybe try Instagram.

You have a great point.  But sadly Twitter is where the crypto community lives.  Well, there and reddit which is just the same tone nowadays.

[Hueristic]

My point is stop yelling about Bitcoin, and just let people understand why Monero is worth using.  That's what Samurai and BnGuns is doing.  And the monero community is criticizing them for being un-pure.

THAT is my point.

You gotta stop reading twitter, maybe try Instagram.

You have a great point.  But sadly Twitter is where the crypto community lives.  Well, there and reddit which is just the same tone nowadays.

Its just full of NGU fanboys, just take a week off.

It will be there and be exactly the same when you go back.

[kurious]

Interesting debate @cAPCLOCK...

Personally I have never thought Monero would replace Bitcoin.  I had Bitcoin before Monero existed but I loved what Monero was building and have held it since it was launched.  I still hold both.

Monero has a role, as does Bitcoin and I know many Bitcoiners who have a decent level of respect for what is an honest, non-premined project that has a role, and a genuinely useful and noble USP; privacy.

For me, any stance against Bitcoin from Monero supporters is a pointless, 'comparing apples to oranges' argument.  Monero was created after Bitcoin and is of course different to it. Its main property was something that Bitcoin does not - and was not designed to - have.  It was an obvious move to cater for a demand for truly private money that does exist.  It is legitimate to serve that demand.  It's what got me into it.

OK, Monero's price is possible to manipulate, but I think current real negative price pressure is the perception Monero will be squeezed out because TPTB won't want an untraceable currency to be easily available.  Let's face it, it is easy enough to pressure exchanges not to list it if they want to marginalise Monero.  This perception does not help price, but it is not Bitcoin that is doing this. It is because Monero actually works and TPTB are likely to see that as a threat.  

That said, I don't think Monero can be pushed aside, as it works and offers real privacy, which will always have a use.  Even sovereign states may quietly appreciate it for keeping certain transactions private.

Monero is unique and has a role, but to target Bitcoin for its failings, rather than just spreading the word on Monero's strengths makes no sense to me.

[cAPSLOCK]

YES YES YES YES YES.  A THOUSAND YESSES.

Same here...  I also bought Monero early on, and have held.  And I emphatically believe that Monero has a completely different set of tradeoffs than Bitcoin.  Those tradeoffs produce a different set of both advantages and disadvantages.

I just hear so much from Monero "community leaders" where they attack Bitcoin, and "dumb maxis" and even insult some privacy maximalist bitcoinners who are starting to actually come over to monero.  It's level 1 thinking, and obviously it pisses me off

As Hueristic points out though... it is mostly Twitter.  And I can stop paying so much attention.

Still, I think the balanced approach to Monero and it's usefulness that you have just outlined is still very important.

[Hueristic]

As Hueristic points out though... it is mostly Twitter.  And I can stop paying so much attention.

I am of the opinion that tptb are setting peops against each other just like the lunatic left and the retarded right are constantly at war.

Its how they keep us powerless.

I was hoping people would smarten up to this crap before I die but it doesn't look like that will happen.

[tokeweed]

I found somebody on Twitter saying exactly what I have been saying.  That XMR is what everybody thought BTC is.  I think he’s somebody new to crypto or at least he seemed new.  But yeah, at least we know people start to realize things and filter the real info from all the noise.

I pinged Fluffy right away suggesting that he should go back on tour and present his ‘Future of Monero’ slide show once again.  I think a lot of people are just misinformed about Monero.

Anyway..  Fluffy’s slide show. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgXJr1OOi0Y

[otreza]

When I started following the project 2 years later, I was also interested in it, just like ZEC. Both are mined and both are aimed at anonymity.