HASHNEST Discussion and Support Thread

[crazyivan]

disaster from day to day, watch how price decreases on the S4

 

It's just adjusting to BTC price and difficulty change. At 4% diff growth price will be oscilating at 0.35 for next 10 days if BTC doesn't rise significantly.

Well if the diff continues jumping like this, even S5 might become inefficient by the end of this year. This only means there are efficient chips around and a lot of them. Genesis Mining has also sliced their maintenance to 12 cents.

[bittamak]

Hmm...Bitcoin price rise is crucial if we have to make out money from here !!!

[wlefever]

If they hadn't put the S7 up so early before actually deploying it, the S4 and S5 market wouldn't be where it is right now.  S5 is a good short term buy (maybe even longer term if BTC price increases), and the S4 is getting riskier, and riskier but still not that bad atm.  The panic selling is real the last week.

[dance191]

If they hadn't put the S7 up so early before actually deploying it, the S4 and S5 market wouldn't be where it is right now.  S5 is a good short term buy (maybe even longer term if BTC price increases), and the S4 is getting riskier, and riskier but still not that bad atm.  The panic selling is real the last week.

wlefever (or anyone else who thinks the current price of the S4 or S3 is not bad) - Can you please tell me what calculation you are using that makes you say the current price of the S4 is not bad?  How do you arrive at that conclusion?

[wlefever]

If they hadn't put the S7 up so early before actually deploying it, the S4 and S5 market wouldn't be where it is right now.  S5 is a good short term buy (maybe even longer term if BTC price increases), and the S4 is getting riskier, and riskier but still not that bad atm.  The panic selling is real the last week.

wlefever (or anyone else who thinks the current price of the S4 or S3 is not bad) - Can you please tell me what calculation you are using that makes you say the current price of the S4 is not bad?  How do you arrive at that conclusion?

If you are looking at it in terms of standard ROI the S4 at it's current price is around 246 days, and will remain profitable as long as bitcoin price is not below $184 (yes obviously the difficulty has steadily risen, but not too fast that you can't make money with S4 or S5).  So why is it not a viable option until at least the S7 comes out? Does anyone really think bitcoin price is going sub $200 in the next month?

Every time I mention the S4 or S5 not being that bad I am talking in a short term window....if you want to buy and hold something on Hashnest, and not have to worry about bitcoin price fluctuations or becoming unprofitable do nothing with your coin until the S7 comes out.  Obivously ROI on a cloud mining service is going to be a moving target, and IMO has to be constantly analyzed.  Right now 1 TH/s of S5 still nets around .0038 and the S4 around .00176 per day at 100% luck, and will be slightly less after this adjustment.  Still profitable for the next few weeks unless the market keeps selling off like it has which obviously throws off any calculation you can make.  

Edit: As far as the S3 it is done on Hashnest very soon, but not a bad option for some to redeem as hardware so they still hold onto their Gh/s.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Right now pre-sale of Antminer S7 to hash costs $1923 for 4860 GH/s or $0.396/GH/s. Any speculation on what the actual trading price on Hashnest will be for S7 GH/s? Higher or lower than offering price?

[glax1983]

Right now pre-sale of Antminer S7 to hash costs $1923 for 4860 GH/s or $0.396/GH/s. Any speculation on what the actual trading price on Hashnest will be for S7 GH/s? Higher or lower than offering price?

at first it will be higher

[Futune]

Is it just me or when I look at the S7 stats page maintenance % increase to almost 30% or was it always like that?

[wlefever]

Is it just me or when I look at the S7 stats page maintenance % increase to almost 30% or was it always like that?

It moves with the difficulty increases (or decreases), and btc/$usd fluctuations.  It will be more than 30% when they finally come online unless bitcoin price goes up.

[crazyivan]

Is it just me or when I look at the S7 stats page maintenance % increase to almost 30% or was it always like that?

Dude, that s the whole point of cloud mining. With that value being static, we would be all be millionaires by now.

[dance191]

If they hadn't put the S7 up so early before actually deploying it, the S4 and S5 market wouldn't be where it is right now.  S5 is a good short term buy (maybe even longer term if BTC price increases), and the S4 is getting riskier, and riskier but still not that bad atm.  The panic selling is real the last week.

wlefever (or anyone else who thinks the current price of the S4 or S3 is not bad) - Can you please tell me what calculation you are using that makes you say the current price of the S4 is not bad?  How do you arrive at that conclusion?

If you are looking at it in terms of standard ROI the S4 at it's current price is around 246 days, and will remain profitable as long as bitcoin price is not below $184 (yes obviously the difficulty has steadily risen, but not too fast that you can't make money with S4 or S5).  So why is it not a viable option until at least the S7 comes out? Does anyone really think bitcoin price is going sub $200 in the next month?

Every time I mention the S4 or S5 not being that bad I am talking in a short term window....if you want to buy and hold something on Hashnest, and not have to worry about bitcoin price fluctuations or becoming unprofitable do nothing with your coin until the S7 comes out.  Obivously ROI on a cloud mining service is going to be a moving target, and IMO has to be constantly analyzed.  Right now 1 TH/s of S5 still nets around .0038 and the S4 around .00176 per day at 100% luck, and will be slightly less after this adjustment.  Still profitable for the next few weeks unless the market keeps selling off like it has which obviously throws off any calculation you can make.  

Edit: As far as the S3 it is done on Hashnest very soon, but not a bad option for some to redeem as hardware so they still hold onto their Gh/s.

Wlefever, thank you for your response.  Let me just bring up a few things about what you said:

1)  The S4 is not profitable above $184.  Profit is when you have been repaid back for your initial investment and you still have revenue beyond costs.  If the S4 simply brings in money over $184, that doesn't mean you made a profit on it.  You need to get repaid your initial investment in order to make a profit.  Getting your investment repaid is all I am focusing on, as that is point of mining at HashNest.

2)  Even if it brings in money above $184, after each increase in the difficulty, it will bring in less and less.  If it takes 254 days for the purchase of the S4 to pay for itself, that is with 0 increase in the difficulty.  Unfortunately, there is no chance of this happening.  With each increase in the difficulty the point at which the miner breaks even gets pushed farther and farther away.  Right now, 1 GH/s earns 0.00000848 BTC per day * (1 - .8253 (maintenance)) =  0.000001481456 BTC earned per day.  If you bought it 5 days ago at 0.00046 each (before the difficulty change), you are now looking at 310 days for your investment to get paid back (0.00046 / 0.000001481456 = 310 days).  In other words, in the last 5 days you are now 56 days further (310 - 254 = 56 days) away from being paid back (and this is with an increase in the price of BTC over the last 5 days).  At the current price of BTC at $233, you now need BTC to be over $192.29 for it to make money.  Now as soon as the difficulty has gone up 17. 47% the miner will be useless.  There is no way the difficulty will stay the same for 310 days, I wish it would...

3)  You said buying the S4/S5 is not bad for the short term.  I think it is horrible for the short term.  The problem is the miner has such little life left, the calculations are easy.  There is very little guess work when the difficulty only needs to change a small amount and that puts the miner underwater.  With something like the S7, who knows.  With the EOL miners, there is very little guess work.

4)  You say 1 TH/s mines about .00176 per day at 100% luck (actually 0.001481456 right now).  You said "Still profitable for the next few weeks", the problem is you need the difficulty to stay the same for 250+ days, a couple of weeks isn't going to do it.  If you are trying to hold onto the miner short term, every day it will drop much quicker in value than it will mine for you.  If you can do some short term trading (holding for minutes), that would be the only thing I could see making any sense.  However, I don't think there is enough liquidity to do any high frequency trading

5)  As far as redeeming the S3, it looks like it will be about $115 ($50 + $65) to redeem one and that only gets you the miner delivered in China.  Getting them delivered to another country gets very, very expensive.

I hope this doesn't sound argumentative.  I really am genuinely trying to understand the pricing and people that see things differently helps me understand their view.  Wlefever, thank you again for your response.  I think getting at the mechanics of what is going on helps everybody.

  

[ajw7989]

S5 price is dropping like crazy. I invested a lot a few days ago looks like I am one of the ones stuck holding the bag. it should pick up when difficult plateaus. I highly doubt the S5 is at its EOL or obsolete in the coming month when the S7 goes full force. although a btc price pump would be nice 

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Red candles on increasing volume S5 price does not seem to have found a bottom yet. For myself I would want to see one up day before buying; or wait for S7:

[wlefever]

If they hadn't put the S7 up so early before actually deploying it, the S4 and S5 market wouldn't be where it is right now.  S5 is a good short term buy (maybe even longer term if BTC price increases), and the S4 is getting riskier, and riskier but still not that bad atm.  The panic selling is real the last week.

wlefever (or anyone else who thinks the current price of the S4 or S3 is not bad) - Can you please tell me what calculation you are using that makes you say the current price of the S4 is not bad?  How do you arrive at that conclusion?

If you are looking at it in terms of standard ROI the S4 at it's current price is around 246 days, and will remain profitable as long as bitcoin price is not below $184 (yes obviously the difficulty has steadily risen, but not too fast that you can't make money with S4 or S5).  So why is it not a viable option until at least the S7 comes out? Does anyone really think bitcoin price is going sub $200 in the next month?

Every time I mention the S4 or S5 not being that bad I am talking in a short term window....if you want to buy and hold something on Hashnest, and not have to worry about bitcoin price fluctuations or becoming unprofitable do nothing with your coin until the S7 comes out.  Obivously ROI on a cloud mining service is going to be a moving target, and IMO has to be constantly analyzed.  Right now 1 TH/s of S5 still nets around .0038 and the S4 around .00176 per day at 100% luck, and will be slightly less after this adjustment.  Still profitable for the next few weeks unless the market keeps selling off like it has which obviously throws off any calculation you can make.  

Edit: As far as the S3 it is done on Hashnest very soon, but not a bad option for some to redeem as hardware so they still hold onto their Gh/s.

Wlefever, thank you for your response.  Let me just bring up a few things about what you said:
snip

1)The income is more than the maintenance so yes the miner is mining in profit.  But, yes I understand ROI isn't until you have sold and made more on your initial principal then you put in.

2)No the difficulty won't stay flat, but I don't think btc price will either.

3)That is easy to say as the panic selling continues, and I have to agree now since there are no signs of that changing before the S7 release.  The reason for the sell offs is everyones fear from UMISOO and S2 finishing, but the S5 is just not in that same boat in my eyes.  Obviously others are seeing it differently.

4).00176 was before the adjustment, yes it is .00148 now.  The markets have never just dropped day in and day out like they have right now, but yep you are right  with the current market conditions.

5)I should have clarified it would mainly be a benefit for those living in China.

For what it is worth I was trying to see why the S4 and S5 should work, but with the daily sell offs I will agree with you about the S4. I still think the S5 is oversold and far from its EOL. 

[galdur]

I was in this for two months recently and most likely will be back in later.

It´s a good and transparent service but you need to put in quite some work if you have a meaningful amount of money there, first to protect your principal and second to get some profits. My strategy was simple; reinvest earnings and try to time sells and then wait for someone to dump into my low bids. In other words focus on beating down the average. But it was too time consuming and I gave up on it and cashed out. If by some miracle bitcoin gets some meaningful volume and buying interest and gets out of the dumps it´ll be much easier and then I´ll be back in.

[lama-hunter]

Iam doing no Profit right now at Hashnest

[lama-hunter]

escpecially u have to pay for the Service.

over 10k satoshi maintance for 188gh/s of hashing Power. See Below.



regards
lama-hunter

[galdur]

escpecially u have to pay for the Service.

over 10k satoshi maintance for 188gh/s of hashing Power. See Below.



regards
lama-hunter

Their pool luck seemed to go to rot after Aug. 25 (the day bitcoin stopped its month-long cratering and the current still ongoing and rather unconvincing bounce started) and two weeks later I was too tired of it to continue and cashed out.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Daily charts in Hashnest showed price began a decline back at end of August, warning that it was time to sell, when MA5 crossed over MA15 and persisted:



There was a second more urgent warning when the big drop happened early September. Probably due to investors nervous about the upcoming S6/S7. There was fair warning that it was time to exit your S5 positions.

[galdur]

Certainly there was fair warning. Like I said earlier this kind of investment requires work and diligence. It´s hopeless to just sit and watch the hash, you need to trade.

I didn´t have very much to show for my two months there but that was solely due to my not being a good enough trader and/or not having time enough for it. It was fun, I´ll be back later in all likelihood.