Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

16. Front End for the LTC chip is now stable. We’re starting the back end as soon as possible and we’re going to start pre-orders soon.

Where did the money come from for this development if compensation for batch 1 customers is maxed out?   
 
No money for refunds.  No money for proper compensation, much hand-wringing over how this the absolute best they can do aaaaaaaaaaaaand.....................here's our new scrypt miner!  Getyer pre-orders in!

Using funds generated from pre-orders to develop new products while the customers that sent those funds in are taking a total bath, and BA is claiming they're absolutely maxed out,  is just the latest evidence that the level of importance given to customers is just above that of a cockroach scuttling across the office floor, and only because a cockroach doesn't carry a wallet.

Anyone that pre-orders anything more complex than a pizza from these people after watching this unfold has a fucking brain tumor.....

And they deleted every single one of my ~300 posts on this thread. But, what else would you expect from a Romanian Scum Bucket.

all I know is that if you turn out to have been right about these people, the line of BA nut-huggers queuing up to suck your warhammer will be visible from the space station.....




here's an idea, instead of sinking customer funds into another product use the money those people paid to develop a product for their use -on a product for their use.  

do what any R&D company does.  Pursue multiple vectors on critical path components, so if that if one design or supplier shits out you don't end up butt-jamming your customers, while running all tra la la down the path on some other project funded with the money of the very same people that are getting screwed.  

gee, tell us again how you've stretched yourselves to the limit to compensate for the delays that exist due to the fact that nobody apparently knows how to run a fucking project.  

[server]

1600 Whut? --> quote fipo: "Prospero X-3 will be able to scan an outstanding 2000Ghash while using less than 1050 Watt."

[DebitMe]

Here's the thing.  Does anyone thing any of these will ROI even with the hosted hashing for six months or whatever?  I can't see it.  As soon as BFL and KNC start shipping the difficulty is going to skyrocket again.  But even in this lull (If you want to call it that) where the difficulty isn't rising that rapidly, these miners don't return on the investment at all.

I know Black Arrow can't provide the additional hashing power to us to make that work in our benefit, but something needs to be done to mitigate the losses.  Heavy discounts on new purchases or something so I can make up the difference on a future order or something.  I dunno...  Sell me one of those Lightcoin machines at cost.  Something like that.

Or beef up the hash rate a lot more on the hosted side.  Something else has to happen or we're all screwed.  At least those of us that haven't got refunds coming.

your operating under the assumption that BA cares about their customers that made this happen for the, when in reality they have stated multiple times that they manufacture mining equipment and whether or not their customers make  a positive ROI is no concern or theirs.

[OleOle]

I get this.  That they can't guarantee an ROI.  They'd go out of business trying to make that happen.  However they do realize that they are selling products that produce less coins than they cost.  If they actually intend to continue selling products a prospective buyer would be insane to trust that anything else they release will ever make a profit.  Their best bet to stay in business is to do right by the people who did invest in their company to get this product off the ground.  They say it'll be worth it.  So I want to see why it will be worth it to stick with them.

It could be all b.s. like you're all saying.  I like to look at the possibility that they are going to do right by their customers.  I may be crazy, but I am hopeful they will.  It would just be nice if they admit there is a problem and that they intend to do more for the people who could be continued buyers of their future customers, rather than one time buyers who walk away feeling burned.

Hopefully they do right by us.

I can appreciate your optimism, it's good to be an optimist and I sincerely hope you do receive delivery of your miners while they are still worth using.

I think you can forget ROI though, you'd have been better parking the money you spent on the miners in a basic bank account. At least you'd still have your capital with some interest.

With BA you've got nothing, no cash, no miner, no hope.

...well, maybe hope.

 

[DebitMe]

Wow,the X1 has price has gone UP WTF

$410 / 0.7092BTC

https://minersource.net/products/black-arrow-prospero-x-1-100gh-slash-s-batch-1

That's just crazy!!!!! And you won't see this miner till at least early May  

I ordered on Dec 14 @ $352 each...........glad I got my refund last month  

My Ants are rockin!!!!!!!  

Those are batch 1 miners, the ones that should have been shipped by the end of the month. So you're basically paying to get toward the top of the list. Most likely miners that got freed up by giving refunds.

Well I just typed up a long post about how the GH/$ ratio for an Antminer today is currently better than the GH/$ ratio of the Prospero X-1 shipped in a month and a half (boldly assuming no more delays), complete with numbers and everything, but these stupid error 502's keep screwing me over.  anyway, ill let people do the calculations themselves, hint, Antminer is less, and you can get it shipped in a couple of days.

[Pentax]

I would be surprised if we didn't get another delay.

BA should change their compensation plan to cover difficulty change that happened in between original date and final shipping date. Then they would be awesome again.

No doubt.  This update seems to be more about what hasn't been done that what was done.
 
haven't taped out the X-3 boards.  backplane not done.  and they're not fabricating those until the X-1 is tested, and they're just now fabricating samples for that.

< 40 days to delivery.  Unless next month's update reads "all is done, testing all units", which will take a miracle as they seemingly don't even have the damn parts to start assembly yet,  we're screwed.

I'd like to see their critical path analysis/GANTT charts at this point.  If they're still on schedule, I'd like to see the proof, as it seems to me that they're going to have to bend space/time to get there on the X-3 or they need to let people know, and stop selling X-3's with what looks like a totally false delivery date at this point.  Not that they'd ever mislead people.  noooooooooo, we know this bunch would never do that.

Getting these updates is better than the apparent lying that was being done before, although it seems they're flailing and still nowhere on the X-3, which means their customers are boned yet again.   This looks increasingly like this group bit off way more than they could chew and their customers get to eat the cost of their failure.  They could step up and increase the compensation and they sure as hell should.  I
doubt they will, as their focus has never seemed to me to be on their customers' well-being.  Their mouths and keyboards tell a different tale, but I'll leave it up to folks to decide for themselves whether or not their actions support their claims.

Glad they've got the time/money to be developing that scrypt miner, though, and diverting engineering time and resources from a project that's already costing their customers thousands of dollars due to delays. 

That's great that BA will launch something else, although at this point I am seeing this every time I think of BA "launching" anything:   http://redbullflugtagusa.com/

[Pentax]

I would be surprised if we didn't get another delay.

BA should change their compensation plan to cover difficulty change that happened in between original date and final shipping date. Then they would be awesome again.

No doubt.  This update seems to be more about what hasn't been done that what was done.
 
haven't taped out the X-3 boards.  backplane not done.  and they're not fabricating those until the X-1 is tested, and they're just now fabricating samples for that.

< 40 days to delivery.  Unless next month's update reads "all is done, testing all units", which will take a miracle as they seemingly don't even have the damn parts to start assembly yet,  we're screwed.

I'd like to see their critical path analysis/GANTT charts at this point.  If they're still on schedule, I'd like to see the proof, as it seems to me that they're going to have to bend space/time to get there on the X-3 or they need to let people know, and stop selling X-3's with what looks like a totally false delivery date at this point.  Not that they'd ever mislead people.  noooooooooo, we know this bunch would never do that.

Getting these updates is better than the apparent lying that was being done before, although it seems they're flailing and still nowhere on the X-3, which means their customers are boned yet again.   This looks increasingly like this group bit off way more than they could chew and their customers get to eat the cost of their failure.  They could step up and increase the compensation and they sure as hell should. 

I doubt they will, as their focus has never seemed to me to be on their customers' well-being.  Their mouths and keyboards tell a different tale, but I'll leave it up to folks to decide for themselves whether or not their actions support their claims.

Glad they've got the time/money to be developing that scrypt miner, though, and diverting engineering time and resources from a project that's already costing their customers thousands of dollars due to delays. 

That's great that BA will launch something else, although at this point I am seeing this every time I think of BA "launching" anything:   http://redbullflugtagusa.com/

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hi guys.. Have you seen that on the BS, sorry BA website ?

As far I remember, when I ordered the X-1, they announced around 0.5W/Gh, which was great, then , they moved to a 0.65W/Gh, and now :

Preliminary specifications:
Node process: 28nm High Performance Process
Package: High Performance Flip Chip BGA
Clock: 1.01 Ghz (Slow/Slow corner)
Voltage: 0.85V
Cores: 99 fully unrolled cores
Efficiency (including leakage): 0.75 W/Ghash/second


This means, the UPS I have bought, the electrical installation changes I have done are NOT corresponding ANYMORE to their new specifications !!! Also, they seem to have AGAIN delays, and worse, instead of concentrating their power to be "Just-In-Time", they have started a new project with LTC chips !

First time I invest on BSPO (Bullshit Pre-Orders), from firms that are unable to manage what they offered ! Not sure if I am going to ask for a refund from the sellers...

Still expecting news from Matt and the OFODB to be soon available (Old Fucking Orders Database)... And don't tell me that 6 months + 25% of hashing power will cover the losses I have had (UPS going to be overloaded, even I took one UPS with 25% more power as required !) ...

Angry Michel.

Don't worry! At least the only person who's been trying to warn you all had his, read me, ~300 posts removed from this thread.

The only saving grace is that Black Arrow vetted Matt Carson, a person who ripped off his own mother, after he fucked the guy he was leasing that warehouse in Missouri, along with the poor sap he fucked for skipping out on his rent arrears for the duplex he leased. Don't worry, though, Matt has plenty of supply for his hookah via funding from the remaining saps still trusting him.

Remember, Alex Sovu was a con artist before he got into the Bitcoin vaporware business via Black Arrow. This Romanian should have a Jewish Bulgarian Freemasons stuck up his ass.

[notbatman]

The crown's ugly mug was on the bills used to pay for these chips.

FYI fraud over $5000 is a serious charge. 

[OleOle]

For what it's worth I'm selling my X3 Pre-order #2005. Taking offers starting at 8btc....

good luck with that.

LOL!

Let the avalanche of sell orders begin!

Jack your prices and shift it through Ebay, you know they'll love those renders 

[OleOle]

Does this remind anyone of anything? -

A company called Black Electronics.

Based in Romania.

With renders of their mining hardware.

Doing another pre-order.

Sound familiar?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=488646.0;topicseen

 

[OleOle]

Sooooooo Have these shipped yet? People still patiently waiting for the obsolete mining hardware as the network has grown from 10ph to 50ph in a few short months?

Have they shipped yet? Is that a trick question

No, we're waiting on another announcement of another delay in shipping.

Most people hope they will get their miners sometime this year, but there are a small number of folks who think 2015 is more likely.

 

[Pentax]

Im guessing May/June, which is optimistic, yet still bleak and completely unacceptable.

Id say its better than 50-50 they ever ship anything, but there is definitely a solid, constantly increasing chance it all just goes POOF.

yep.  with another delay they're screwed.  refund requests will explode.  as soon as cash flow turns negative, buh bye.

my mental running odds of ever getting these, in the event of a missed May 1 delivery, drop to 30%.

[DebitMe]

Thank you for the update Black Arrow. This is nice specificity and transparency.

Unfortunately difficulty increases are killing the positive ROI on these. I hope you revisit your compensation program when you get closer to delivery.

Lets phrase that as a question and see if we get an answer...

BA, since you originally promised customers that if they did not hit a positive ROI within 6 months, and now you are telling us you will have extra miners and a brand new facility to house them in for the expansion of the Rent a Minion program, is there a plan to revisit the compensation package to make your customers happy?

[Pentax]

Thank you for the update Black Arrow. This is nice specificity and transparency.

Unfortunately difficulty increases are killing the positive ROI on these. I hope you revisit your compensation program when you get closer to delivery.

Lets phrase that as a question and see if we get an answer...

BA, since you originally promised customers that if they did not hit a positive ROI within 6 months, and now you are telling us you will have extra miners and a brand new facility to house them in for the expansion of the Rent a Minion program, is there a plan to revisit the compensation package to make your customers happy?

Positive ROI on what terms, USD or BTC, whatever currency they paid in?
I am thinking this could turn into big mess quickly.

Seeing as it was BA that made this promise, I'm sure they'll have no problem figuring that particular question out.

[DebitMe]

Thank you for the update Black Arrow. This is nice specificity and transparency.

Unfortunately difficulty increases are killing the positive ROI on these. I hope you revisit your compensation program when you get closer to delivery.

Lets phrase that as a question and see if we get an answer...

BA, since you originally promised customers that if they did not hit a positive ROI within 6 months, and now you are telling us you will have extra miners and a brand new facility to house them in for the expansion of the Rent a Minion program, is there a plan to revisit the compensation package to make your customers happy?

Positive ROI on what terms, USD or BTC, whatever currency they paid in?
I am thinking this could turn into big mess quickly.

Seeing as it was BA that made this promise, I'm sure they'll have no problem figuring that particular question out.

Zurg raises a good point, but one that may be a little premature.  I am more interested in whether or not we will see an updated plan for the compensation packages.  It seems like there is enough money to acquire a new facility to house extra prospero's for the rent a minion program from the first run of chips, why are these units being used to make BA money instead of compensating us?

[Pentax]

Thank you for the update Black Arrow. This is nice specificity and transparency.

Unfortunately difficulty increases are killing the positive ROI on these. I hope you revisit your compensation program when you get closer to delivery.

Lets phrase that as a question and see if we get an answer...

BA, since you originally promised customers that if they did not hit a positive ROI within 6 months, and now you are telling us you will have extra miners and a brand new facility to house them in for the expansion of the Rent a Minion program, is there a plan to revisit the compensation package to make your customers happy?

Positive ROI on what terms, USD or BTC, whatever currency they paid in?
I am thinking this could turn into big mess quickly.

Yep, although I expect them to say they are expanding this for our compensation packages, which will, if past experience is any gauge, have enough truth to it that it's not exactly a lie, but isn't exactly the whole truth either.

It would be nice to see them move off of their current position to one that made more sense in terms of this compensation package.  This delay is killing us and likely ends up forcing us into the red on these.  That should be their concern.  If it's not, there's a problem.

[Pentax]

Let me correct this before it gets out of hand- They are building the additional rent-a-minion facility FOR the compensation plan, not in addition.
[/quote]



sorry Matt, you do seem like you're trying in all of this, although it doesn't make logical sense that this is the only purpose for this facility, for a number of reasons.

BA needs to improve on this package.  Hopefully they will see that and do so.

[goozman96]

Can someone differentiate between "probe cart wafer" and "working wafer"?

[goozman96]

Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why "probe cart wafer" wasn't giving me any results on google.