Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

And yes, you will receive the amount of btc you paid back, I do not agree or see why that is the case, but that is the way it works.

that makes no sense whatsoever, on several levels.

Primarily in that, if they did not convert those BTC they became the speculator the instant they received them.  A person cannot be held accountable for risk taken on by the vendor.

Beyond that, in the US, BTC is not money.  Their product was priced in USD, you gave them something equivalent in value to that USD, so their refund cannot be giving you something that does not have that value in USD.  I gave you 300 and for a refund I get 150?  That's not a refund, that's a screwing.

I'd be going to the BBB as an initial step and would file a suit immediately after that.  Probably wouldn't even have to appear in court because they'd know they were going to lose and would simply refund your money long before the court date.

I'd normally not go that route, and would exhaust all options prior to doing so, but I've done it, and would do it again in a heartbeat if I was getting screwed because someone else speculated and expected me to eat the loss.  nuh uh.

[DebitMe]

And yes, you will receive the amount of btc you paid back, I do not agree or see why that is the case, but that is the way it works.

that makes no sense whatsoever, on several levels.

Primarily in that, if they did not convert those BTC they became the speculator the instant they received them.  A person cannot be held accountable for risk taken on by the vendor.

Beyond that, in the US, BTC is not money.  Their product was priced in USD, you gave them something equivalent in value to that USD, so their refund cannot be giving you something that does not have that value in USD.  I gave you 300 and for a refund I get 150?  That's not a refund, that's a screwing.

I'd be going to the BBB as an initial step and would file a suit immediately after that.  Probably wouldn't even have to appear in court because they'd know they were going to lose and would simply refund your money long before the court date.

I'd normally not go that route, and would exhaust all options prior to doing so, but I've done it, and would do it again in a heartbeat if I was getting screwed because someone else speculated and expected me to eat the loss.  nuh uh.

I totally agree, the payment methods of the 340$ usd included bitcoin but they are the ones who speculated if they did not convert. Refunding now is just uselss unless you are refunded in fiat or the correct amount equaling the 340$ usd the miner was.

I also wonder if they are doing it this way to try and refrain people from getting a refund.  I would not blink an eye if I could get a check for the full amount or btc in the USD amount back for the other units I have on order.  I think it is pretty much general consensus that these things will lose money at this point and the majority of people would request a refund.

We all know BA will drop prices as soon as they ship the first units.  There is no way they have any money coming in at this point as their prices are behind the times, but they will not drop them due to some things they said when they started taking pre-orders.

[DebitMe]

Black Arrow LTD is looking for OEM partners and is offering samples of 28nm Minion Bitcoin miner chips (discounted or free).

Samples will be shipped around 1st of May 2014.

Target:

These samples are offered to companies or PCB designers with genuine interest to design double SHA256 mining machines based on Black Arrow Minion ASIC.

We will offer 5 free samples to companies with proven record of designing and manufacturing mining PCBs or high power PCBs; Any other PCB designer can purchase up to 5 samples for discounted price.

Discounts:

All companies with the design ready to manufacture before 01/06/2014 will receive a discount of US$10000 on their first order. If the company decides to license the design under GPL we will offer a further discount of US$10000. If the design is licensed under GPL at a later date, we will offer this discount on the next order. Black Arrow offers this discount to support open source design but does not intend and will not use this design in their products.

Price promise:

We are looking for long term partners and wish to be your only BTC ASIC supplier by providing required stock on time and competitive market price (will price match on $/Ghash any BTC ASIC company as long as their offer is genuine and stock available at the same time as ours).

Minimum order quantity for manufacturing:

1000 pcs.

Please register your interest here: http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion-asic-sample.html
Datasheet: http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion-datasheet.html

Regards!

Here is where your hard earned pre order money went!

EDIT:  They are able to give away samples of chips and $10,000 discounts, and yet they cannot improve the compensation package...?

[Pentax]

Price promise:

We are looking for long term partners and wish to be your only BTC ASIC supplier by providing required stock on time and competitive market price (will price match on $/Ghash any BTC ASIC company as long as their offer is genuine and stock available at the same time as ours).

Here is where your hard earned pre order money went!

EDIT:  They are able to give away samples of chips and $10,000 discounts, and yet they cannot improve the compensation package...?

Price promise.  LOL.  These guys are lying sacks of shit that also promised their customers they would give us enough hashpower to ROI and are now fucking our brains out and changing their tune on that while running down the path on other shit, which they apparently do have money for.

I hate these fuckers more every day.

[coda]

Price promise:

We are looking for long term partners and wish to be your only BTC ASIC supplier by providing required stock on time and competitive market price (will price match on $/Ghash any BTC ASIC company as long as their offer is genuine and stock available at the same time as ours).

Here is where your hard earned pre order money went!

EDIT:  They are able to give away samples of chips and $10,000 discounts, and yet they cannot improve the compensation package...?

welcome to the club



Price promise.  LOL.  These guys are lying sacks of shit that also promised their customers they would give us enough hashpower to ROI and are now fucking our brains out and changing their tune on that while running down the path on other shit, which they apparently do have money for.

I hate these fuckers more every day.

[goozman96]

Does that mean people who ordered in November on BigCommerce will finally have their orders transferred?

Correct. Spree ended up being such a PITA for us we changed to a 3rd platform that is easy to move all the data too.

From here:
http://minersource.net/blogs/news/13162513-new-website

Posted March 27 2014
Old orders, especially those for the Prosperous Miners have not been moved over yet, and will take 1-2 weeks to fully populate.

Today is the end of 2 weeks since that was posted. Another self-imposed deadline come and gone.

[DebitMe]

I have received a shipping number for my refund for the full amount (minus $20) through MinerSource.  I expect the check on Monday.  Just FYI

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BLACK ARROW MUST DO SOMETHING FOR US IT'S UNACCEPTABLE
THEY SCREWED US AND THEY HOLD OUR MONEY IN HOSTAGE

A SERIOUS POWER INCREASE WOULD BE NECESSARY
I DIDN'T THOUGHT THEY WERE AS SCAMMY THAN BUTTERFLY
BUT THEIR SCAM POWER IS FAR SUPERIOR

As least you'll have a strong case against them if you use my 300+ posts on this thread... Oops! Forgot. They were all deleted.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

First a little bit of chartism for the serious investors  lol   

If you make a quick analysis of the Bitcoin chart the price has a strong support in the zone between 370 and 400 $ (the lost of this support means the price will drop deep to the bottom) in the other hand the next resistance is first the 560 $ (200 days moving average) and after that the zone of 600 $ if the price can break this resistance in the next days/weeks we will see the beginning of a bullish trend. In my opinion this option is more probable but of course I can be wrong.

ok today price close was 357,57$  time to close all positions (or open shorts) and wait to see where is the price ground

Does a $349.38 exchange rate change anything?

[Unacceptable]

Black Arrow LTD is looking for OEM partners and is offering samples of 28nm Minion Bitcoin miner chips (discounted or free).

Here is where your hard earned pre order money went!

EDIT:  They are able to give away samples of chips and $10,000 discounts, and yet they cannot improve the compensation package...?

Well, this is the minion chip, which yeah, it's where our money went. If it was a scrypt chip I could see the outrage (and I'd be right there with you!), but I think they've always shown on their site that the minion was available to OEMs.

I do agree that it seems there is room for better compensation if they can provide discounts, but even there, that's a discount off of a net new order -- receiving less money, not digging into their pockets to pay out. You can be broke and offer a discount.

I like that they will give a discount if you open source your PCB design -- that might work out well for WASP and others. Maybe next fall we can order well built, open source, upgradeable machines... one can dream. 

They need to atleast match the Ant miners, if we didn't show good faith and buy into BA we could have bought the 180 ghash antminers and had them delivered on time.

That's exactly what I did with my refund on 2/7/2014    Got 1TH in Ants running now!! Good luck folks!!! 

[notbatman]

These guys knew they couldn't make the Feb 24th shipping date yet they still continued to sell pre-orders for that date. This makes it fraud an the TOS are no longer valid. The revised April 30th shipping date is also bullshit as it's the 10th today and they still don't have any chips yet.

Fucking lying sack of shit scam company!

[OleOle]

Price promise:

We are looking for long term partners and wish to be your only BTC ASIC supplier by providing required stock on time and competitive market price (will price match on $/Ghash any BTC ASIC company as long as their offer is genuine and stock available at the same time as ours).

Here is where your hard earned pre order money went!

EDIT:  They are able to give away samples of chips and $10,000 discounts, and yet they cannot improve the compensation package...?

Price promise.  LOL.  These guys are lying sacks of shit that also promised their customers they would give us enough hashpower to ROI and are now fucking our brains out and changing their tune on that while running down the path on other shit, which they apparently do have money for.

I hate these fuckers more every day.

^This.

Read it again and again, read it and know it's true.

Blackarrow are filth.

 

[DebitMe]

Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!

I put in a ticket asking about this very thing not too long ago, and BA customer service themselves told me not to believe anything written on any forum, and that there is no news on this front other than the previously announced batch 1 compensation package.

Well if I have learned anything from this ordeal, it is that BA has members of their team working on different continents all with different jobs.  They have, "hired" somewhere around 3 or 4 people to respond to questions and I dont believe it was ever someone from their main office where the chip is actually being designed.  Contradicting statements have been released within days of other news being posted by, "official" BA spokespeople.  And a new name surfaces every couple of weeks and posts updates then just fades away until a new one pops up a week or two later.

This is the first instance that BA has said anything about improving the compensation plan.  Please note, they have not provided a deadline, details, or even a hint that it would even happen.  In fact, it is pretty obvious they have not even thought about it themselves as they choose not to address until they start shipping.  (I am happy I am getting my refund check, but kind of pissed that they waited this long to announce that they would possibly take a second look at compensation after saying to vehemently in the past that they do not care about customers making a positive ROI.)

In all, I am skeptical on whether they will actually provide anything more for their customers, they also have not had anything in announcements saying they are working on the large scale upgrading of their website to accommodate their hosting packages.  They will need to allow people to manage their hosted devices remotely, which is quite a bit of coding and work to set up and test.

Just my two cents on the issue.

[Pentax]

Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!

I put in a ticket asking about this very thing not too long ago, and BA customer service themselves told me not to believe anything written on any forum, and that there is no news on this front other than the previously announced batch 1 compensation package.

This is the first instance that BA has said anything about improving the compensation plan.  Please note, they have not provided a deadline, details, or even a hint that it would even happen.  In fact, it is pretty obvious they have not even thought about it themselves as they choose not to address until they start shipping.  (I am happy I am getting my refund check, but kind of pissed that they waited this long to announce that they would possibly take a second look at compensation after saying to vehemently in the past that they do not care about customers making a positive ROI.)

In all, I am skeptical on whether they will actually provide anything more for their customers, they also have not had anything in announcements saying they are working on the large scale upgrading of their website to accommodate their hosting packages.  They will need to allow people to manage their hosted devices remotely, which is quite a bit of coding and work to set up and test.

Just my two cents on the issue.

I didn't take that comment to mean they were improving anything in terms of the compensation package.  He cited a past promise (one of) which was that if someone else in the marketplace was selling something for less/GH they would beat that offer.  I'd have to dig back to dig up the exact stuff, so if I'm off, someone can go right ahead and correct me.

There has been no citation of such a company, product or benchmark upon which they would have to act, as far as I know.

I took that as a whole bunch of nothing.  This statement, to me, meant nothing, as it seemed to be a promise to keep a promise that they do not, at this point, have to act on.  Again, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be so, so someone can correct me if they have better information.

What I would be more interested in is a statement on ROI or making up of the lost BTC due to this delay and what exactly they plan on doing about that.  Solid words, followed by solid actions.  

They made numerous statements early on about how they would be on time, that they wouldn't promise dates they couldn't deliver on, the project was started in June and February delivery was all but a lock, that they might be able to deliver sooner actually, yada, yada, yada.

That's what people based their decisions to buy from these people on and they got fucked but good.  

we're at  ~8-9 BTC lost and counting per X-3 because BA didn't keep it's former promises on delivery after swearing up and down that it was not going to happen.  Those are the facts.  I couldn't give a fart in a CAT 5 Cyclone if they continue to blabber on about some smoke and mirrors bullshit that they may or may not have to deliver on at this point.  

We're getting crushed because they couldn't back up their former claims, so their word is worthless as far as I'm concerned.  Don't tell me, show me.  Make solid statements and fucking back them up.  After months of BS and broken promises it's high time they did exactly that.

[Pentax]

I had my refund this week. They sent me a mail, I have had to sign the bitcoin address y paid from saying that after the refund I have nothing to claim from BA nor them from me.

In the mail also they say that they have had problems changing dollars to bitcoin and they only refund the bitcoins I paid minus $50 fee. So I received 9,0.... bitcoin.

In the mail says that If you don't accept this conditions, the order will go on.

I accepted it, I lost more than $2000 in this, but it's better than wait for a unprofitable machine.

That is simply stealing, as far as I'm concerned.  nobody's fault but theirs if they didn't convert the bitcoin and lost money as a result, and yet no surprise either.

Being a BA customer is like renting the downstairs apartment in an outhouse.

[DebitMe]

Being a BA customer is like renting the downstairs apartment in an outhouse.

^This

With the broken promises and delays, this sums up exactly how i feel. I am finally at the point where i am one more delay away from pulling out completely. Granted i am only in for 2 X-1's, but we are almost halfway through april and BA don't even have a working prototype... Come on BA, this is getting ridiculous.

I have said many times that I am warning people to go the refund route.  This debacle will probably get worse as you pointed out there is no working prototype and they are 3 weeks away from delivery time. They are betting that the chip will be absolutely perfect and to their specifications, which as far as I am concerned, has only happened maybe once in bitcoinland.  Every manufacturer has had to go back and tweak things.  IF there is another delay, there will essentially be a bank run on getting refunds and I doubt BA will be able to afford to pay all refunds, leaving some holding the ball of worthless products.  Get yours before its too late!  That is my warning!

Another question.  It seems that AsisMiner has gotten sample chips on a bullet run in order to test the chip before ordering a mass production run.  Did BA not run a bullet run?  Are they betting everything on these chips to work and have paid and run the entire first two batches on a chip that hasn't passed all tests?  That seems pretty scary to me.

[OleOle]

So less than 3 weeks till delivery is supposed to start?  No chips in hand yet and no working proto??

Me thinks the delay train is about to run over some more investomers 

Yeah we have started to really notice, there was more faith a couple weeks ago but now the question is how are they going to compensate for
1:Not making their second delay when they were supposed to be shipped in Feb.
2: Not being able to compete with rival companies now for price and ghash.

It's beginning to look like deliberate deceit, like they never had any intention of honouring their delivery schedule.

They are so far off the pace it could be next year before some folks get their hardware.

 

[DebitMe]

Why BA must convert the payments received in btc to fiat currency ?

 In the moment they make the exchange start to generate taxes and financial expenses.

Is much better hold it as long as you can specially if at least part of your suppliers also accept payments from you in Btc

I guess If the Btc remains in the zone of 1000$ we don't have this conversation.

because when they got the BTC they probably liquidated it to fiat for business expenses. Since BTC is half its high they get to steal half your store of value.

Please read a little more before randomly posting about things.  It has been confirmed that they held a certain amount of paid orders in bitcoin instead of converting it to fiat like they originally said they would.  They tried to play the market with customer orders and lost, and are refusing to give the same value of currency back (which is how their goods are priced on their website) from when people ordered the items.

[DebitMe]

Update of my refund:

I received a check yesterday from Minersource in the agreed upon amount and brought it to the bank today.  The teller cashed the check and gave me some cash and put the rest into my account, so I do not think their was any problem with the check.

I appreciate the refund guys, keep up the good work.  For those of you still waiting on refunds I wish you the best.  I will be one of you again if the price keeps going up and I need to unload my bunch of X-1's.

Thanks,

DebitMe

[goozman96]

Imported orders should now show, but we are not 100% done yet, so please be patient if something is missing/ wrong.

Some international orders may not appear due to invalid country codes and will be added manually.

Orders may appear as fulfilled even though they have not shipped.

http://minersource.net/blogs/news/13686173-imported-orders

Are we supposed to receive an email? Your login page doesn't even have https whereas the previous two stores did. Is this supposed to be an upgrade? I'm not logging in over http.