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Author Topic: Bitminter bitcoin mining pool - Pays TxFees, Merged Mining, Fair PPLNS rewards  (Read 313284 times)
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DrHaribo
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January 17, 2018, 01:04:23 PM
 #1421

Antminer A3, to mine Blake 2b.

Note that this miner cannot mine bitcoin and you can't use it on Bitminter.

It may look like you will earn almost 11 BTC the first year if you mine Blake coins and sell them. The reality is that an ASIC for these coins will change everything, like it did with bitcoin in 2013. Noone will make as much as these numbers show now. If you had the only ASIC you would still not make that much. Because even your one ASIC miner would raise the difficulty. Still someone could make some quite good earnings in the beginning. Like it was with bitcoin. The people who got the first ASICs had some very profitable mining before the difficulty went up. In this case that's probably Bitmain themselves. By the time you receive the miner the difficulty will already be much higher than it is today. If you have one of the early orders you may still make a good profit - noone knows. At least Bitmain is not like Butterfly Labs that mined on customer ASICs until it was less profitable and only then finally shipped them.

I am new to mining and new to Bitminter. I am mining with my S7 in Bitminter pool for weeks but didnt received any BTC yet. I read that it pays when it finds block, but when?!

Finding a block is like a lottery. You can't predict when it will happen. With the current hashrate the average time for us to find a block is just under 2 weeks. We are working on getting the hashrate up. It has gone from 2 PH/s to 7 PH/s in a fairly short span of time. Hopefully we will have more frequent blocks in the future as our hashrate keeps growing.

Is Bitminter good for me with an old S7 should find another pool which pays faster? (I have to pay the electricitiy bill soon)

Whether you have an S7 or S9 doesn't really matter for which pool you should choose.

If you can't pay the electricity bill without frequent payouts, then perhaps you should mine on an extremely expensive PPS pool instead. While Bitminter is a very cheap pool to mine at, the payouts aren't at regular intervals. With PPS you pay extremely high fees, but you get paid regularly - and that is why you pay the high fees. If you have a PPS pool with 3% fee on the newly created coins and 100% fee on transaction fees, that's a total fee rate of about 28% currently. Bitminter has a 1% fee and optional donations to unlock perks, but you can turn that off.

Still, you may have to mine at 28% fee instead of 1% fee, because otherwise you are not able to pay the bills. Like they say, it's expensive to be poor.

What bigolin said is another option. You can do some high-fee PPS mining to ensure that you can pay the bills and put the rest on low-fee PPLNS mining.

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bigolin
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January 17, 2018, 01:53:13 PM
 #1422

Holy SMOKES I got quoted and mentioned in a DrHaribo post!

Have we ever figured out the issue with the amounts changing once a shift has fallen off? I know I spoke with someone about it with BitMinter and they were going to look into it. Since that time I have sold my old gear and purchased all my new equipment. Just a recap essentially what I'm seeing is even though the shift is no longer eligible for pay, and an amount is assigned to it in the "Pay per hour per Th" column, once another shift completes, that amount will be adjusted. I'm just not sure why it would adjust or which amount is correct, the first one or the final amount. Sometimes it will adjust as far as 4 shifts later.

Thanks in advance for any insight!
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January 17, 2018, 07:40:29 PM
 #1423

Holy SMOKES I got quoted and mentioned in a DrHaribo post!

lol Tongue

Have we ever figured out the issue with the amounts changing once a shift has fallen off?

Shifts appear to show inaccurate per-shift earning stats for a while after they are finished. I haven't had time to look more closely at this, but I will.

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promojo
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January 17, 2018, 08:02:43 PM
 #1424

We really need to hit a block here!!!   
bigolin
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January 18, 2018, 04:08:25 PM
 #1425

Come on and pop!

67% here we go! I feel a pop coming!
promojo
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January 18, 2018, 07:34:17 PM
 #1426

Come on and pop!

67% here we go! I feel a pop coming!

We at 67.25 now *cross fingers*   If this gets dragged on we better hit one immediately thereafter Cheesy
johnPalli
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January 20, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
 #1427

Let’s hope to hit that today! 70% and Growing
bigolin
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January 20, 2018, 08:21:32 PM
 #1428

Let’s hope to hit that today! 70% and Growing

I'm ready. I brought two more S9's over to BitMinter to try and speed it up. Plus anytime it starts looking like it might be a super long block, I try to start ramping up some extra hash power.
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January 21, 2018, 10:57:42 AM
 #1429

Let’s hope to hit that today! 70% and Growing

I'm ready. I brought two more S9's over to BitMinter to try and speed it up. Plus anytime it starts looking like it might be a super long block, I try to start ramping up some extra hash power.

That's also my intention with other 2 S9 that I'll receive in March. I just hope they will able to repay themselves because of the difficulty that is increasing so badly.
bigolin
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January 21, 2018, 02:45:42 PM
 #1430

Let’s hope to hit that today! 70% and Growing

I'm ready. I brought two more S9's over to BitMinter to try and speed it up. Plus anytime it starts looking like it might be a super long block, I try to start ramping up some extra hash power.

That's also my intention with other 2 S9 that I'll receive in March. I just hope they will able to repay themselves because of the difficulty that is increasing so badly.

As long as they are profitable you should be good to go as they will eventually pay themselves off. Of course, the higher the BTC value is, the quicker it's paid off. You can always sell off one of your S9's which then covers the cost of the first one (by eBay prices) and you are in the green on the one. That's always an option and one I considered as well.
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January 25, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
Last edit: January 25, 2018, 09:02:54 AM by MrZipster
 #1431

Just wondering....

If payments are made based on contributions to last 10 shifts, when a block is a bugger like this one, does that mean you're effectively not paid for any of the work at the beginning?

So current block started 26th Dec, but the oldest of the 10 shifts started 8th Jan. So no reward for 26th Dec to 8th Jan onwards? (13+ days?)

Meaning as well then, that anyone who jumped in post-8th Jan gets rewarded as if they were there from the beginning?

If so - why only go back 10 shifts - why not 20 or 30?

Apologies if the answer is blindingly obvious or I've misunderstood how things work.... Or if it's been discussed to death already! :-)
TheQuin
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January 25, 2018, 09:03:01 AM
 #1432

does that mean you're effectively not paid for any of the work at the beginning?

Yes. If a shift drops out of the last 10 before a block is found you receive no reward.

If so - why only go back 10 shifts - why not 20 or 30?

The length of shifts is calculated to make the probability of them going unrewarded quite low. IIRC in the past adjustments have been made by making the shifts longer rather than increasing the number of shifts eligible for pay, although this obviously has the same effect. As mining is based on luck whatever numbers you use there will always be exceptional times when some shifts go unrewarded. If it starts to happen frequently then DrHaribo may decide to increase the length of the shifts.

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DrHaribo
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January 25, 2018, 10:51:23 AM
 #1433

If you mine 24/7 then it doesn't matter. If you have 1% of the pool hashrate then you get 1% of the coins that are paid out. Does it matter exactly which work you got paid for? No.

If you are a part time miner then things get more difficult. If you got paid for all the work you did going 6 months back, then any hour you decide to do some mining that hour will be paid pretty much the same each time. However, it would take 6 months after you did an hour of mining until it was fully paid. That's a long time to wait.

So for part time miners we have to try to find a balance between evening out payments and not taking too long to finish paying some work done in the past.

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MrZipster
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January 25, 2018, 11:21:29 AM
 #1434

If you mine 24/7 then it doesn't matter. If you have 1% of the pool hashrate then you get 1% of the coins that are paid out. Does it matter exactly which work you got paid for? No.

If you are a part time miner then things get more difficult. If you got paid for all the work you did going 6 months back, then any hour you decide to do some mining that hour will be paid pretty much the same each time. However, it would take 6 months after you did an hour of mining until it was fully paid. That's a long time to wait.

So for part time miners we have to try to find a balance between evening out payments and not taking too long to finish paying some work done in the past.


If I'm 1% of the hashrate of unpaid work though (on the disappeared shifts), then say only 0.5% of the hashrate of what WILL be paid out on the 10 shifts, does that make me worse off?

(%age drops because overall pool hashrate goes up during the current block)

Or is the theory then that the block was solved sooner BECAUSE of the extra hashrate, so I'm still in the same boat?

Not being difficult you understand, just trying to get my head around it, and the reasoning! :-)  Understand the bit re: part-time mining...
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January 25, 2018, 12:21:47 PM
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 #1435

Sure, if you had a higher share of hashrate in the shifts that got no pay and a lower share of the hashrate in the shifts that later got paid, then you would have gotten paid more if the block was found sooner.

This isn't a huge effect since our hashrate usually doesn't change that quickly.

It could be evened out more with longer shifts, of course.

One negative impact of long shifts, beyond it taking a long time to get paid after you did some work, is the psychological effect it has. Many misunderstand and think they have to mine for free or for low pay until they have filled 10 shifts and only then do they get paid properly. They call this a "ramp up". We used to have a number on the website showing what amount you would earn right now if we find a block (in those days transactions fees were almost zero). This lead to a lot of complaints about "ramp up" so it had to be removed. The current stats try to show useful data without leading people into misunderstandings.

In reality all work is paid the same way. If you do an hour of work it gets paid the same way as all other work, from blocks found while that work is among the 10 latest completed shifts. It doesn't matter if it is your first hour, your last, or somewhere in the middle. It does not get paid less because you did or did not do some other work.

It's the same thing with questions about whether there is a punishment if you stop mining. No, there is no punishment. Your work is still paid the same way. But you don't get paid for work you didn't do. There is no "ramp down". After you stop mining you are not getting paid for not working. You are still getting (delayed) pay for work you have done before.

This reminds me of the person that commented on Bitminter on mywot.com that he mined some coins in 2014, left, and when he came back in 2017 there was the same amount. This is not a punishment. To mine coins you have to actually mine. It's hard to believe that Bitminter would get a reduced reputation score for something like this, but that's how it is.

The current reward system and the statistics on the website are an attempt at balance between these different concerns and the misunderstandings over the years.

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bigolin
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January 25, 2018, 01:55:45 PM
 #1436

Trust me, seeing the zeroes hurts. I get it. Seeing the difficulty increase hurts. I feel it too. However, when you get paid, you get PAID! This has been my go to pool for as long as I have been mining (which I assure you isn't very long compared to many). I don't have all my eggs in one basket just for this reason. I have 50% here and 50% at a different PPLNS pool. I'm not encouraging that or claiming one is better than the other, just hoping you understand we all go through the same feelings. Stick around, you'll be glad you did!
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January 25, 2018, 05:21:42 PM
 #1437

I really thought that our block find time would go down since we have doubled our hash rate in the last month and a half. I know the difficulty is up but I hoped our hash rate increase would have helped to keep up.

It's a bit discouraging to see your percentage dropping and seeing the block find time going up.

I've been with Bitminter since I started. Fingers crossed that luck will turn our way!! 

bigolin
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January 25, 2018, 07:26:06 PM
Last edit: January 25, 2018, 07:45:55 PM by bigolin
 #1438

I really thought that our block find time would go down since we have doubled our hash rate in the last month and a half. I know the difficulty is up but I hoped our hash rate increase would have helped to keep up.

It's a bit discouraging to see your percentage dropping and seeing the block find time going up.

I've been with Bitminter since I started. Fingers crossed that luck will turn our way!!  


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January 26, 2018, 07:17:36 AM
 #1439

hey all!

I have only been mining for about a month! currently running 4 741s---but have 2 821s coming soon and then 4 s9s coming in march----i began mining with viabtc, as i wanted to start with mining BCH---however, now that profitability has evened out, I am currently mining BTC---which i would have never chosen viabtc pool for mining BTC...

anyhow, for btc pools im looking into slush, kano, and bitminter---i was researching bitminter and stumbled upon this thread----overall how do you guys like it? what do you find your average daily payout is per TH? I understand its a much smaller pool and youre only being paid once blocks are found and completed---whcih can take weeks---what do you find your payout is per TH after waiting 2 weeks for block completion? or even monthly?

Im just weighing my options and trying to figure out more about bitminter, and from the posts im seeing, it seems as though you are all very happy there---i am just curious as to what type of average payouts you all are receiving versus the other pools you are in!

Thank you guys for your help---i look forward to hearing back! cant believe it took me as long as it did to get into mining---it sure is fun/addicting---even with profitability down over the last however long i am still having a blast doing it!
bigolin
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January 26, 2018, 12:52:41 PM
 #1440

hey all!

I have only been mining for about a month! currently running 4 741s---but have 2 821s coming soon and then 4 s9s coming in march----i began mining with viabtc, as i wanted to start with mining BCH---however, now that profitability has evened out, I am currently mining BTC---which i would have never chosen viabtc pool for mining BTC...

anyhow, for btc pools im looking into slush, kano, and bitminter---i was researching bitminter and stumbled upon this thread----overall how do you guys like it? what do you find your average daily payout is per TH? I understand its a much smaller pool and youre only being paid once blocks are found and completed---whcih can take weeks---what do you find your payout is per TH after waiting 2 weeks for block completion? or even monthly?

Im just weighing my options and trying to figure out more about bitminter, and from the posts im seeing, it seems as though you are all very happy there---i am just curious as to what type of average payouts you all are receiving versus the other pools you are in!

Thank you guys for your help---i look forward to hearing back! cant believe it took me as long as it did to get into mining---it sure is fun/addicting---even with profitability down over the last however long i am still having a blast doing it!

I personally have miners here at Bitminter and at Kano. I'm still waiting on my first block since coming back online in early January (I sold my old units and purchased 4 brand new S9s from BitMain). Once we solve a block I will break down my total Th/s for you over the 10 shifts and give you the payout amount I received which you should be able to break down. Personally I'm happy here, and I'm happy at Kano. Kano has a higher hashrate which theoretically means less time between blocks, but also means less pay per block for you as well.

Welcome to BitMinter and hopefully you give a miner or two a shot in the meantime. Now is a great time to get started with us since this is a long ass block, you could potentially get a full payout on it if it takes us long enough to solve!
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