KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2436 blocks

[bitsink]

I was also thinking about the the 5Nd thing, whether this really is just a statistical smoothing function (moving average) or wether it gives "old" miners a 5Nd (currently about 100h, but possibly not constant()) lead over new miners due to network difficulty changes every 14 days? Are new miners disadvantaged by this in that when their hashes are paid out the 5th time they are worth less (if a diff change has since occurred)? Maybe this has been considered before, but some explanation would be nice.

Anyone willing to chime in on whether newbies starting out are disadvantaged compared to someone who has already "filled" the 5Nd window or not due to upcoming diff increases? Thanks.

What actually happens is that each share you submit (as the web page says) is rewarded in all blocks in the 5Nd after it.
So basically, it takes 5Nd to get rewarded.
It has nothing to do with a lower reward for your work.
When you have 5Nd worth of shares, then you always have a full set of shares to be rewarded.
It has no possible expected effect on your reward at all.
It's simply to do with reducing reward variance (by stretching out the reward time)

Thanks for chiming in!
For clarity: Is a share not worth less after a diff increase, as more shares are now required to find a block? Or are you saying that that share is weighed according to the diff at the time it was submitted and thus worth the same amount of relative pool hash power irrespective of a what the current diff is as compared to the diff at the time of submission? Am I expressing myself clearly?

[1714929739]

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[1714929739]

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[kano]

I was also thinking about the the 5Nd thing, whether this really is just a statistical smoothing function (moving average) or wether it gives "old" miners a 5Nd (currently about 100h, but possibly not constant()) lead over new miners due to network difficulty changes every 14 days? Are new miners disadvantaged by this in that when their hashes are paid out the 5th time they are worth less (if a diff change has since occurred)? Maybe this has been considered before, but some explanation would be nice.

Anyone willing to chime in on whether newbies starting out are disadvantaged compared to someone who has already "filled" the 5Nd window or not due to upcoming diff increases? Thanks.

What actually happens is that each share you submit (as the web page says) is rewarded in all blocks in the 5Nd after it.
So basically, it takes 5Nd to get rewarded.
It has nothing to do with a lower reward for your work.
When you have 5Nd worth of shares, then you always have a full set of shares to be rewarded.
It has no possible expected effect on your reward at all.
It's simply to do with reducing reward variance (by stretching out the reward time)

Thanks for chiming in!
For clarity: Is a share not worth less after a diff increase, as more shares are now required to find a block? Or are you saying that that share is weighed according to the diff at the time it was submitted and thus worth the same amount of relative pool hash power irrespective of a what the current diff is as compared to the diff at the time of submission? Am I expressing myself clearly?

Yes a share is worth less after a diff change.
If the 5ND after the share, crosses a diff change, that reduces the expected reward of a share, since there's no extra BTC lying around unclaimed.
The only way to apply more BTC to those old shares would be to take it away from the new shares i.e. no.

Thus yes the N in PPLNS does affect the reward of shares, if their reward cross a difficulty boundary - the same for all miners on the pool.

[Raspberrypibtc]

Hello Everyone,

New Miner here! Just wanted to say hi!

I started at slush and ended up here - At first i missed the daily payouts until i read what Kano said "it has nothing to do with Bitcoin" I also started around the Mr 415% so i was feeling the "missed payments" but after reading alot in this forum i have decided to stay and keep trucking through 

Besides for the new people its not just YOU having bad luck.... its everyone else too.

[kano]

Hello Everyone,

New Miner here! Just wanted to say hi!

I started at slush and ended up here - At first i missed the daily payouts until i read what Kano said "it has nothing to do with Bitcoin" I also started around the Mr 415% so i was feeling the "missed payments" but after reading alot in this forum i have decided to stay and keep trucking through  

Besides for the new people its not just YOU having bad luck.... its everyone else too.

What bad luck is that?
The last 50 blocks (6 weeks) miners have averaged 116% PPS.
The last 100 (almost 8 weeks) miners have averaged 106% PPS.

...
But what sucks if there is any way a person can just be a real unlucky fellow or gal thats just a jinx like Mr. 415% kill joy..
...

a 415% or longer is expected, on average, once every 63.4 blocks ...

[Raspberrypibtc]

I was making a general statement about not getting payouts everyday - Meaning no one else in the pool is getting paid out either until a block is found

Anyways like i said im new LOL 

Ill go back to lurking in the shadows

[kano]

Block! by cobramining
A7v1

[PeaMine]

Look at that luck.
Last 50 Blocks   6.2wks   106.13%   116.09%
I hope you are sitting back grinning Kano

A bit older topic but I also noticed higher pool side rejects with the Avalons, though they hash higher than advertised in a good environment so doesn't really hurt my feelings.
But is there a way to get this number down perhaps?
Meanwhile pretty much all my Antminer gear after a few weeks loses 5-10% hashrate until a reboot, but almost no invalids (S7 and S9s) which is odd given I'd assume they have crappy everything compared to Avalon's setup.

[kano]

Look at that luck.
Last 50 Blocks   6.2wks   106.13%   116.09%
I hope you are sitting back grinning Kano

A bit older topic but I also noticed higher pool side rejects with the Avalons, though they hash higher than advertised in a good environment so doesn't really hurt my feelings.
But is there a way to get this number down perhaps?
Meanwhile pretty much all my Antminer gear after a few weeks loses 5-10% hashrate until a reboot, but almost no invalids (S7 and S9s) which is odd given I'd assume they have crappy everything compared to Avalon's setup.

Yeah I mentioned about that earlier, the Bitmain code throws away the stale shares rather than letting cgminer decide based on cgminer settings.
Yes bmminer is still cgminer, but that link shows the nightmare of code they do to a share returned from the miner before passing it back to the main cgminer code to deal with it.
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg18083086
but specifically:
 https://github.com/bitmaintech/bmminer/blob/master/driver-btm-c5.c#L7887
So it's just hiding most of them.

[clgrissom3]

Waking up to a block in the tank and a couple of payouts!

Now where is that coffee

[zOU]

I'm back to my usual 7Ths after a reboot of my remote miners

[kano]

The passthru reconnected again at 17:12:34 UTC (a few hours ago)
Anyone mining to the nodes was unaffected.
Anyone mining to the main pool connection will have reconnected or failed over and back again.
A short blip, but it reconnected immediately so all was ok straight away.

[Dak1]

Being a new miner myself, started in Dec 2016, I think the biggest challenge is patience. I originally bounced back and forth between Antpool and KanoPool before finally deciding to land here for the long term.

If you have zero patience, you will never be happy with the pool you are in. STAY WITH KANO, you won't regret it.

I also want to take this time to thank all of you who contribute regularly to the community. I really appreciate it! It has taught me a lot and I hope to someday pay it forward to others as they join.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Being a new miner myself, started in Dec 2016, I think the biggest challenge is patience. I originally bounced back and forth between Antpool and KanoPool before finally deciding to land here for the long term.

If you have zero patience, you will never be happy with the pool you are in. STAY WITH KANO, you won't regret it.

I also want to take this time to thank all of you who contribute regularly to the community. I really appreciate it! It has taught me a lot and I hope to someday pay it forward to others as they join.

I agree. With BTC Patience is def a Virtue. You have to look at earnings per-THs on a pool for at LEAST a month to minimize effect of normal Variance.

Over the years I've ran several comparisons. First between the now-extinct EMC vs Antpool. EMC won hands down (and went broke).
2x were Kano vs Antpool last year. Despite all the blocks Antpool finds per-day, between them keeping Tx fees plus the % for PPS along with the huge number of users, over a month - Kano is always significantly ahead by a few % over 30 days time or more..

[kano]

Thanks
Well we aren't "always" ahead, but most months are and they average out ahead also

[remnokc]

question please:

Your pool interests me and am thinking of joining.
However, being an infrequent miner, will it penalize me by mining only late at night and throughout the weekend?
Does pplns penalize you if you are an infrequent Bitcoin miner?
I have about 17000gh/s to throw your way.

[vh]

question please:

Your pool interests me and am thinking of joining.
However, being an infrequent miner, will it penalize me by mining only late at night and throughout the weekend?
Does pplns penalize you if you are an infrequent Bitcoin miner?
I have about 17000gh/s to throw your way.

No penalty.   You get rewarded for your accepted share over the last n shares when the block is found.

Yours shares on the weekend will be counted if a block is found while you are not mining on Monday.
You not mining all daytime Friday will reflect if a block is found on the weekend with its 5n look back (currently ~4days 9hrs.).

It averages itself out to an effective hashrate "Your N Avg" for mining.   

[remnokc]

question please:

Your pool interests me and am thinking of joining.
However, being an infrequent miner, will it penalize me by mining only late at night and throughout the weekend?
Does pplns penalize you if you are an infrequent Bitcoin miner?
I have about 17000gh/s to throw your way.

No penalty.   You get rewarded for your accepted share over the last n shares when the block is found.

Yours shares on the weekend will be counted if a block is found while you are not mining on Monday.
You not mining all daytime Friday will reflect if a block is found on the weekend with its 5n look back (currently ~4days 9hrs.).

It averages itself out to an effective hashrate "Your N Avg" for mining.   

Thank You so very much for your reply. I have gotten in the habit of mining weeknights 11pm to 8am, and then 11pm Friday through 8am Monday as that is my Utility's "off peak" usage rate times. ( I was actually able to pay my electric bill last month w/ revenue from mining this way and have a little left over, LOL )

[kano]

question please:

Your pool interests me and am thinking of joining.
However, being an infrequent miner, will it penalize me by mining only late at night and throughout the weekend?
Does pplns penalize you if you are an infrequent Bitcoin miner?
I have about 17000gh/s to throw your way.

No penalty.   You get rewarded for your accepted share over the last n shares when the block is found.

Yours shares on the weekend will be counted if a block is found while you are not mining on Monday.
You not mining all daytime Friday will reflect if a block is found on the weekend with its 5n look back (currently ~4days 9hrs.).

It averages itself out to an effective hashrate "Your N Avg" for mining.   

Thank You so very much for your reply. I have gotten in the habit of mining weeknights 11pm to 8am, and then 11pm Friday through 8am Monday as that is my Utility's "off peak" usage rate times. ( I was actually able to pay my electric bill last month w/ revenue from mining this way and have a little left over, LOL )

If you look on the web site when you login, at the Workers Menu, Workers->K.Workers and Workers->K.Graph, that shows my mining.
I only mine half the day most days due to power costs

[usernamehere]

By usernamehere! 13TH. Welcome to the acclaim board.

Longtime lurker, first time poster! I logged into my miner today to check on it, and saw that it found my first block! I couldn't believe it since I'm just a small hobby miner, so came here and to kano.is to verify.  

I hope it's not my last.  



FWIW: S9v1

[beltsniffer]

By usernamehere! 13TH. Welcome to the acclaim board.

Longtime lurker, first time poster! I logged into my miner today to check on it, and saw that it found my first block! I couldn't believe it since I'm just a small hobby miner, so came here and to kano.is to verify.  

I hope it's not my last.  

Nice Share! Congrats!

I'm still waiting to join the club!