delete

[netmonk]

here we are

[TheFascistMind]

this type of behavior is typically indicative of FRAUD.

Hmmm. Didn't consider that. Bet against their own coin and pretend to not, while milking rpietila of his BTC stash as he doubles down and is the supplier of the loans for the shorts. He deserves it. He was my friend and I've tried to warn him not to get hoodwinked. He doesn't understand the technology.

But this is unconfirmed FUD though. We could go round and round with conspiracy theories. I am tired. I want to work on positive developments.

[farfiman]

Let's talk in 2016.

wasn't that 2015.75 ?

[ceger]

EDIT: Maybe you could discuss the fix with one of the other core members (or rpietila), I think most of them appreciate what you're doing here.

None of them take me seriously. I am tired of this shit.

BCX may or may not have an exploit but this was not what I wanted to do with my time. I have much more lucrative things to be working on. XMR people think they know everything. So let them.

Translation: Epic Fail

[Bobsurplus]

Clear winner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUN4K72cv10&feature=youtu.be

#XST

[CoinHoarder]

XMR people think they know everything.

You are just now noticing this?

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

EDIT: Maybe you could discuss the fix with one of the other core members (or rpietila), I think most of them appreciate what you're doing here.

None of them take me seriously. I am tired of this shit.

BCX may or may not have an exploit but this was not what I wanted to do with my time. I have much more lucrative things to be working on. XMR people think they know everything. So let them.

Fracturedmind, it's okay.  XMR doesn't respect BCX or jl777, either, or Crypto-zoidberg.  You're in esteemed company. 

Martin said this would happen, during that one-hour exercise period he had in the slammer.

[TheFascistMind]

I think I know what the mitigation is for anonymity aspect of the exploit. I will tell you I think it can be fixed going into the future, but we can't restore the anonymity from the past. It is fucked. Meaning if you thought you were anonymous you were not. The NSA can compute the intersections.

The best we could do (if I am correct) is to quickly checkpoint the code and get it out to 51% of the miners so we can prevent BCX's Time Warp attack. But fluffypony says we don't have to do anything rushed and he is at beach any way.

Then we put the mitigation in place so the future anonymity isn't broken.

However my mitigation proposal may still fail in the future when the attacker (NSA?) owns many inputs to many rings on the block chain. I haven't gotten that far in my very rushed analysis. So maybe I can devise a solution (but unlikely because I won't know which inputs the attacker owns) or it doesn't scale well for the attacker (our best hope but I am not optimistic).

So I would say yes ring signatures may be doomed, but I am not sure yet. Maybe not also. I hope not.

If only XMR was affected, there is one of my emotions that would love to see it destroyed. But on rational thought, I don't want to hurt the innocent parties who invested, some of whom are my friends (including but not just Rpietila).

[RAJSALLIN]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

[farfiman]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

Some have an epiphany at dinner  and some while walking on the beach.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

You have stated the logic correctly, but not completely.

[Quanttek]

EDIT: Maybe you could discuss the fix with one of the other core members (or rpietila), I think most of them appreciate what you're doing here.

None of them take me seriously. I am tired of this shit.

BCX may or may not have an exploit but this was not what I wanted to do with my time. I have much more lucrative things to be working on. XMR people think they know everything. So let them.

I think, while it may be partially true, that your achievements didn't get honored enough, It's also partially misinterpretation. While you go the more theoretical way, that any flaw should be fixed as fast as possible and than even in edge cases no attack vector should exist, fluffypony is going the more simple way (and you may want to cal it realistic way), in that an attack can be mitgated post-happening through some centralized efforts, which is at it's gist only a different approach (and thus a different opinion), then yours (and to be quite frankly the worse). Though this can be interpreted as downplaying and disrespecting your efforts.
"When we can rollback the attack, why should we bother?" seems to be your interpretation of fluffypony's posts, but it's more of an
"We are trying as hard as possible to find the exploit and are supporting your efforts, but if we won't be able to fix it in time, we still can go the centralized and worse way in trying to rollback it similiar to Bitcoin".

I think everyone is aware that a post-mitgation is always worse, fluffy just wanted to show a (worse) way in mitgating it afterwards, but by still being fully aware of the disadvantages of this.

Please don't mistake a different opinion with disresepct or trolling and continue to work on it, you're doing a great job!

[broekies]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

Some have an epiphany at dinner  and some while walking on the beach.

The only epiphany I've ever had at dinner was upon realising I'd just followed through. I thought I would sneak out a cheeky silent fart but the moist sensation in my pants and the putrid smell ascending from under the table quickly alerted me to the fact I was dealing with something entirely more sinister.

Speaking of hot air and following through, hot air is largely what Anonymint/BCX are pushing out as some of us already predicted.

Following through is something I presumed wouldn't happen. Looks like the back-pedalling has already began

Perhaps a  Fragile egos at work sign should be erected around the perimeter of this thread.

[fluffypony]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

How do you get that? There's been a claim with virtually no details, that we can neither refute or accept. So what are we meant to fix, exactly?

Would you prefer it if I feverishly read through every line of code in an abject panic?

Until BCX either provides some more technical details, or he just carries out his attack in 2 days time, we don't know *if* there is an exploit, what its nature is, or where to even start looking. So we carry on as normal, investing plenty of time in Monero, without needlessly panicking, because if we panic we will accomplish nothing.

[tacotime]

Look, if BCX has found an exploit he can pass it to us and we can patch our software accordingly.

If it exists and he exploits it and messes up the blockchain for a few hours (which someone else already did a few weeks ago), we'll roll back the blockchain. We've already reviewed the ring signature algorithms ad nauseum, wrote internal memos on any weaknesses, reviewed the difficulty algorithm (which is kind of lame, but, yunno, it's gotten us where we are today), and frankly wasted a lot of time and money we could be spending doing more important things.

I am thankful for the BCT circus here giving us 3-month high Poloniex volumes -- but don't be surprised if the point of all this is just to rip the shirt off of a lot of people's backs.

[Quanttek]

I think I know what the mitigation is for anonymity aspect of the exploit. I will tell you I think it can be fixed going into the future, but we can't restore the anonymity from the past. It is fucked. Meaning if you thought you were anonymous you were not. The NSA can compute the intersections.

The best we could do (if I am correct) is to quickly checkpoint the code and get it out to 51% of the miners so we can prevent BCX's Time Warp attack. But fluffypony says we don't have to do anything rushed and he is at beach any way.

Then we put the mitigation in place so the future anonymity isn't broken.

However my mitigation proposal may still fail in the future when the attacker (NSA?) owns many inputs to many rings on the block chain. I haven't gotten that far in my very rushed analysis. So maybe I can devise a solution (but unlikely because I won't know which inputs the attacker owns) or it doesn't scale well for the attacker (our best hope but I am not optimistic).

So I would say yes ring signatures may be doomed, but I am not sure yet. Maybe not also. I hope not.

If only XMR was affected, there is one of my emotions that would love to see it destroyed. But on rational thought, I don't want to hurt the innocent parties who invested, some of whom are my friends (including but not just Rpietila).

As shown in MRL 0001 I think with a really high base mixin it will be hard, even for an sophisticated attacker, to be able to completely isolate the spender in a ringsig.

http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf

Smooth also did a while ago some calculations of the cost of such an attack in the Altcoin observer, but I can't currently find the post

[slapper]

Well someone is having fun 

[AKWAnalytics]

Well someone is having fun 


https://i.imgur.com/y3RmBVI.png

He's sipping a beer, you jackass.  WTF is wrong with that?

I have not seen this amount, and this low of quality, trolling in all my crypto days.

This whole thing will turn out bad for those perpetrating it.  Hodlers will be rewarded.  Mark my words.

[BldSwtTrs]

Pretty comical that a core developer chooses to go to the beach when this is going down. I have a family as well but if my coin was at risk of dying I'd put 100% in fixing that first.

How do you get that? There's been a claim with virtually no details, that we can neither refute or accept. So what are we meant to fix, exactly?

Would you prefer it if I feverishly read through every line of code in an abject panic?

Until BCX either provides some more technical details, or he just carries out his attack in 2 days time, we don't know *if* there is an exploit, what its nature is, or where to even start looking. So we carry on as normal, investing plenty of time in Monero, without needlessly panicking, because if we panic we will accomplish nothing.

It's all well and good, but perhaps you could, in addition to that, take seriously what AnonyMint is saying and cooperate with him, since he appears to have some clues about what the exploit might be be.

[fluffypony]

Well someone is having fun 

Just wait till you see the pics of me drinking whisky...so scandalous!