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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201914 times)
Coinoisseur
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May 25, 2012, 06:27:31 PM
 #1481

Stealing monopoly money is still stealing. But just as you realistically won't get police and prosecutors to bust their butts to convict a monopoly money thief, you will have to sue using civil means to recoup losses. It seems Bitcoinica was mixing currency and BTC along with granting interest, so aggrieved parties could probably attract the interest of the financial regulators of the country they were registered in (NZ?).


My point still stands : they can refund all the USD and not give one satoshi back and nobody can do a damn thing.
Just because there is no legal precedent for Bitcoins doesn't mean that a legal precedent won't be set.

Also, what's your point?  Why does that matter?  If they give back everyone's BTC, then they give it back.  If they don't, then they don't.  How does that change anything in the discussion here?

He's campaigning for unpunishable BTC fraud, for selfish reasons.



I am telling Intersango and Bitcoinica to take the BTC and run !

Only give back the USD and everybody is happy.

Why should they buy up another 18K and raise the price Huh

Because for one thing, they can forget their careers and close their shops if they do. In other words:

We don't know what you want. But if you are looking for ransom we can tell you we don't have any Bitcoins anymore.
But what we DO have are a very particularly set of skills, skills we have acquired over a very long career in the Bitcoin forum
Skills that make us a nightmare for people like you. If you let our BtC go now we will not look for you, we will not pursue you.
But if you don't - we will look for you, we will find you, and we will kill your reputation in and outside of the Bitcoin world.


Funny thing is that now stealing BTC is legal but harassment like what you described above isn't.

Anyway, let's not get sidetracked here. I want my $1 bonus back !  Wink
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May 25, 2012, 06:29:46 PM
 #1482

@Zhou Tong

zhoutong
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Can you tell me when you changed your forum description here to the above please, I thought that until very recently it still said something like:

zhoutong
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Founder & CEO
of Bitcoinica

This is what we continued to take you for until you recent announcement that you had secretly sold the business months ago & that it had been subsequently handed on to Bitcoin Consultancy =~ Bitcoinica Consultancy =~ Intersango

Anyone else remember when this info was changed, thanks


It was changed after this thread started. I even remember seeing it on his "I'll leave Bitcoin" thread.

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May 25, 2012, 06:32:50 PM
 #1483

Sorry for duplicate posting (I posted this in the newbie forum initially) but I really wanted to share my concerns about the claims process as proposed by Zhou here.

By now it is clear that bitcoinica had their entire db and all records (apart from PII/AML and some outdated records) wiped. This is a worst case scenario. What a royal mess and one that baffles the mind considering they were dealing with a lot of customers money on a daily basis. Having a single point of failure on a virtual server hosted by a 3rd party? Wow. just wow. If I had known I'd never have put as much money into this operation as I did. However that is all in the past so let's move forward.

Zhou suggested the following approach to dealing with claims:

Quote
--- Disclaimer: Pure suggestion. NOT OFFICIAL ---

- Your bitcointalk.org profile or Bitcoin-OTC rating shows you as reputable and trustworthy. (50 Points)
- You can supply at least one transactional email you have received which perfectly matches our outgoing transactional email records. (30 Points)
- You can provide passport scans and you have provided to Bitcoinica (even if it's pending verification). (40 Points)
- The order of magnitude of your reported balance is consistent with our outdated accounting records. (30 Points)
- You can recall the balances exactly or very precisely. (20 Points)
- You have reported a losing position, with precise details. (20 Points)
- You have contacted Bitcoinica Support at least once since September 2011. (10 Points)
- Your email can be searched online and matches your identity. (10 Points)
- You can provide proof of Bitcoin address ownership (signature), Mt. Gox code you have used/obtained or accurate details of large transaction records (>2500 BTC) that match our hedging activity. (10 Points each kind of evidence)
- Another reputable member supports your claim. (10 Points)
- You have used wire transfer, BitInstant or AurumXchange to deposit/withdraw funds and they can verify the records. (10 Points)
- You have submitted the claim within the first 24 hours since the announcement. (10 Points)

Couple of points below:

Quote
- Your bitcointalk.org profile or Bitcoin-OTC rating shows you as reputable and trustworthy. (50 Points)

Wow. 50 points if you have a reputable bitcointalk.org account. Ranked higher then any verifiable things like transaction IDs, passport data, etc. I'm sorry I didn't know when I signed up with bitcoinica that it's compulsory to go to some unrelated forum and post here daily. Some people have no interest in this and have busy non-BTC related dayjobs (me). To me this is wholly unrelated. Like Bank of America returning money to customers who were good boy scouts or something? Oh you weren't in the boy scouts? tough luck. Putting this item on the top of the list introduces a kind of bias that I wholly disagree with.

I also don't see how the reputation system is workable. For example I am using another username here then on bitcoinica (and this is on purpose). I also chose to hide my email. How can Bitcoinica match Bitoinica users to Bitcointalk.org users? And even if they can how would they establish 'reputation'? (Read all posts by members? I think not). And giving points based on friends supporting your claim... what is this even supposed to mean? Any prudent investor/speculator will keep their deposits and positions private. I don't see how getting supports from friends promotes the claims process in any way apart from allowing you-help-me-i-help-you schemes between people making claims look more legit.

Quote
- The order of magnitude of your reported balance is consistent with our outdated accounting records. (30 Points)

The reason this won't work is because your records are outdated. In my case I sent a significant USD wire transfer to Bitcoinica that cleared only days before the hack. Yeah that is money in the bank for Bitcoinica but no 30 points for me. No sir.

Quote
- You have reported a losing position, with precise details. (20 Points)

Ah so customers that came in at the time when Bitcoinica started paying interest on deposits and used Bitcoinica as a USD+BTC savings account that had no interest in speculation (like me) will lose out here. Sounds like a great idea.

Quote
- You can recall the balances exactly or very precisely. (20 Points)

And you are going to verify this *how* exactly? Basically what you are saying is that if the user picked the 'Exact' option from the dropdown they get a free 20 points instantly. I would argue that because of daily interest on deposits combined with 5 decimals of precision, almost no account holder will know their *exact* balance.

Quote
- Your email can be searched online and matches your identity. (10 Points)

Right, because we all know that putting your email address online so they can be harvested by spammers and impersonators is best practice. +10 points.

Quote
- You have submitted the claim within the first 24 hours since the announcement. (10 Points)

Yeah sure. Because all 5500 bitcoinica customers have nothing better to do then read 70+ post threads on bitcointalk.org all day. People have families, jobs, vactations, etc. Bitcoinica has not notified any customers by email of the claims process and the main website has been spotty at best (non www. domain did not work. Certificates were invalid suggesting the claims process could be bogus, etc.)

Quote
if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back

Let's check my user id... hmm 47**. Well I guess I might as well wave bye bye to my money. Again I started using bitcoinica for the interest on deposits back in February. I put a large chunk of my savings here (yeah, shame on me). Please tell me why I am an inferior bitcoinica customer again?

Don't get me wrong - I think Zhou did a lot of good stuff with Bitcoinica and really appreciate the information he shared during this incident given the total lack of info from Bitcoin Consultancy, but he clearly dropped the ball when it came to security and I don't think he is the right person to handle the claims process since he seems to have a personal incentive to protect his reputation that might adversely influence the process.

The claims process should be based on facts. Meaning MTGOX codes, Wire Transfer Codes, Blockchain transfers, AML/PII docs and the like. It is a big Jigsaw but the only way. Bitcoinica should start working with MtGox, BitInstant, ArumXchange and other transfer services pronto. All money (be it BTC or USD) that came into Bitcoinica should be verifiable though other institutions.

And if it sounds like I'm angry - It is because I am.

--- Disclaimer: Assume that the suggestion is used without modification. ---

Well, none of these measures work individually, for sure. That's why we need 100 Points for full refunds.

If you are reputable on this forum, submitted passport scan and at least one other proof, you can get 100 points.
If you're not active on forums or OTC and never verified. Never mind. If you honestly reported a losing position (and we have pretty current position reports), sent an email to us ever, gave accurate balances up to two decimal points (20+30 points) and used Mt. Gox and Bitcoin to deposit. Full refund!

Even if you can't give us exact details, we can offer a partial payment for you and the remainder will come later. We are not eating your money.

--- Disclaimer: Assume that the suggestion is used without modification. ---

EDIT:

I'd like to add one criterion for the suggested plan: Reported very close balances and positions (less than 0.5% upwards or 1% downwards) compared to our non-current records. (50 Points, but disqualify the orders of magnitude criterion)

We're not telling you the date of our record, so if there're no balance changes after that date, we'll give the most recognition. This applies to interest-earning accounts with not many activities.

The fact is, we have all kinds of records, so it's very hard to submit false claims without contradictions. I have spent about 100 hours in total monitoring orders execution, user balances change, deposits, withdrawals, support requests and position liquidations since the launch of Bitcoinica. The memory itself can prove something. And I have a previous project selling virtual goods and facing a lot of credit card fraud - I have trained myself identifying fraud.

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May 25, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
 #1484

I found a lot of evidence on the email .. Smiley. numbers transaction, the date, time .. It sounds promising .. In order to prove ownership of email - I can sign the message key. similarly to wallet

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May 25, 2012, 06:45:14 PM
 #1485


Because for one thing, they can forget their careers and close their shops if they do. In other words:

We don't know what you want. But if you are looking for ransom we can tell you we don't have any Bitcoins anymore.
But what we DO have are a very particularly set of skills, skills we have acquired over a very long career in the Bitcoin forum
Skills that make us a nightmare for people like you. If you let our BtC go now we will not look for you, we will not pursue you.
But if you don't - we will look for you, we will find you, and we will kill your reputation in and outside of the Bitcoin world.

Funny thing is that now stealing BTC is legal but harassment like what you described above isn't.


Hacking into computers to steal BTC is theft and is criminal.  The trouble is how society values the loss.  A lot of participants in the Bitcoin economy, myself included, think of Bitcoin as a way to undermine (or at least protect oneself against) the certain corrupt aspects of our current societal structures.  But most justice systems don't share the view that the fiat monetary system as corrupt and shaky, and thus don't place that much value in Bitcoin.  Probably never heard of it in fact.  And they really do have legitimate work to prioritize.  Upshot:  Theft of Bitcoin is simply not as serious a crime in practice as it is in theory, and 'in practice' is where the rubber meets the road for a lot of us.

Now, harassement is a crime and extortion is a more serious one and physical violence more serious yet.  One can throw the other details (like "but Your Honor, he stole my BTC") out the window.  The criminal justice system will and should take an active interest in such things.  I only hope that this situation remains valid for as long as possible.



You noticed the famous Liam Neeson quote from the movie Taken, I hope? While I fully agree that actual harrassment is unacceptable you need to see that people will do what is legally possible for them to make sure someone who they entrusted with value, be it BTC or USD, does not deny their accountability, or starts fingerpointing to others and blaming them. This entire crisis resolution has been a farce all along. Calling someones' reputation into question is all that customers have to defend themselves from such losses and gross incompetence in the future.

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May 25, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
 #1486

Sorry for duplicate posting (I posted this in the newbie forum initially) but I really wanted to share my concerns about the claims process as proposed by Zhou here.

By now it is clear that bitcoinica had their entire db and all records (apart from PII/AML and some outdated records) wiped. This is a worst case scenario. What a royal mess and one that baffles the mind considering they were dealing with a lot of customers money on a daily basis. Having a single point of failure on a virtual server hosted by a 3rd party? Wow. just wow. If I had known I'd never have put as much money into this operation as I did. However that is all in the past so let's move forward.

Zhou suggested the following approach to dealing with claims:

Quote
--- Disclaimer: Pure suggestion. NOT OFFICIAL ---

- Your bitcointalk.org profile or Bitcoin-OTC rating shows you as reputable and trustworthy. (50 Points)
- You can supply at least one transactional email you have received which perfectly matches our outgoing transactional email records. (30 Points)
- You can provide passport scans and you have provided to Bitcoinica (even if it's pending verification). (40 Points)
- The order of magnitude of your reported balance is consistent with our outdated accounting records. (30 Points)
- You can recall the balances exactly or very precisely. (20 Points)
- You have reported a losing position, with precise details. (20 Points)
- You have contacted Bitcoinica Support at least once since September 2011. (10 Points)
- Your email can be searched online and matches your identity. (10 Points)
- You can provide proof of Bitcoin address ownership (signature), Mt. Gox code you have used/obtained or accurate details of large transaction records (>2500 BTC) that match our hedging activity. (10 Points each kind of evidence)
- Another reputable member supports your claim. (10 Points)
- You have used wire transfer, BitInstant or AurumXchange to deposit/withdraw funds and they can verify the records. (10 Points)
- You have submitted the claim within the first 24 hours since the announcement. (10 Points)

Couple of points below:

Quote
- Your bitcointalk.org profile or Bitcoin-OTC rating shows you as reputable and trustworthy. (50 Points)

Wow. 50 points if you have a reputable bitcointalk.org account. Ranked higher then any verifiable things like transaction IDs, passport data, etc. I'm sorry I didn't know when I signed up with bitcoinica that it's compulsory to go to some unrelated forum and post here daily. Some people have no interest in this and have busy non-BTC related dayjobs (me). To me this is wholly unrelated. Like Bank of America returning money to customers who were good boy scouts or something? Oh you weren't in the boy scouts? tough luck. Putting this item on the top of the list introduces a kind of bias that I wholly disagree with.

I also don't see how the reputation system is workable. For example I am using another username here then on bitcoinica (and this is on purpose). I also chose to hide my email. How can Bitcoinica match Bitoinica users to Bitcointalk.org users? And even if they can how would they establish 'reputation'? (Read all posts by members? I think not). And giving points based on friends supporting your claim... what is this even supposed to mean? Any prudent investor/speculator will keep their deposits and positions private. I don't see how getting supports from friends promotes the claims process in any way apart from allowing you-help-me-i-help-you schemes between people making claims look more legit.

Quote
- The order of magnitude of your reported balance is consistent with our outdated accounting records. (30 Points)

The reason this won't work is because your records are outdated. In my case I sent a significant USD wire transfer to Bitcoinica that cleared only days before the hack. Yeah that is money in the bank for Bitcoinica but no 30 points for me. No sir.

Quote
- You have reported a losing position, with precise details. (20 Points)

Ah so customers that came in at the time when Bitcoinica started paying interest on deposits and used Bitcoinica as a USD+BTC savings account that had no interest in speculation (like me) will lose out here. Sounds like a great idea.

Quote
- You can recall the balances exactly or very precisely. (20 Points)

And you are going to verify this *how* exactly? Basically what you are saying is that if the user picked the 'Exact' option from the dropdown they get a free 20 points instantly. I would argue that because of daily interest on deposits combined with 5 decimals of precision, almost no account holder will know their *exact* balance.

Quote
- Your email can be searched online and matches your identity. (10 Points)

Right, because we all know that putting your email address online so they can be harvested by spammers and impersonators is best practice. +10 points.

Quote
- You have submitted the claim within the first 24 hours since the announcement. (10 Points)

Yeah sure. Because all 5500 bitcoinica customers have nothing better to do then read 70+ post threads on bitcointalk.org all day. People have families, jobs, vactations, etc. Bitcoinica has not notified any customers by email of the claims process and the main website has been spotty at best (non www. domain did not work. Certificates were invalid suggesting the claims process could be bogus, etc.)

Quote
if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back

Let's check my user id... hmm 47**. Well I guess I might as well wave bye bye to my money. Again I started using bitcoinica for the interest on deposits back in February. I put a large chunk of my savings here (yeah, shame on me). Please tell me why I am an inferior bitcoinica customer again?

Don't get me wrong - I think Zhou did a lot of good stuff with Bitcoinica and really appreciate the information he shared during this incident given the total lack of info from Bitcoin Consultancy, but he clearly dropped the ball when it came to security and I don't think he is the right person to handle the claims process since he seems to have a personal incentive to protect his reputation that might adversely influence the process.

The claims process should be based on facts. Meaning MTGOX codes, Wire Transfer Codes, Blockchain transfers, AML/PII docs and the like. It is a big Jigsaw but the only way. Bitcoinica should start working with MtGox, BitInstant, ArumXchange and other transfer services pronto. All money (be it BTC or USD) that came into Bitcoinica should be verifiable though other institutions.

And if it sounds like I'm angry - It is because I am.

--- Disclaimer: Assume that the suggestion is used without modification. ---

Well, none of these measures work individually, for sure. That's why we need 100 Points for full refunds.

If you are reputable on this forum, submitted passport scan and at least one other proof, you can get 100 points.
If you're not active on forums or OTC and never verified. Never mind. If you honestly reported a losing position (and we have pretty current position reports), sent an email to us ever, gave accurate balances up to two decimal points (20+30 points) and used Mt. Gox and Bitcoin to deposit. Full refund!

Even if you can't give us exact details, we can offer a partial payment for you and the remainder will come later. We are not eating your money.

--- Disclaimer: Assume that the suggestion is used without modification. ---

EDIT:

I'd like to add one criterion for the suggested plan: Reported very close balances and positions (less than 0.5% upwards or 1% downwards) compared to our non-current records. (50 Points, but disqualify the orders of magnitude criterion)

We're not telling you the date of our record, so if there're no balance changes after that date, we'll give the most recognition. This applies to interest-earning accounts with not many activities.

The fact is, we have all kinds of records, so it's very hard to submit false claims without contradictions. I have spent about 100 hours in total monitoring orders execution, user balances change, deposits, withdrawals, support requests and position liquidations since the launch of Bitcoinica. The memory itself can prove something. And I have a previous project selling virtual goods and facing a lot of credit card fraud - I have trained myself identifying fraud.

Is this now the official procedure? If yes, please make it official properly. If not, sort it out and make the criteria official in the next 24 hours. Lock it , decide it, move on and dont continue with this hell of a confusion. BASTA

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May 25, 2012, 06:52:07 PM
 #1487

Is this now the official procedure? If yes, please make it official properly. If not, sort it out and make the criteria official in the next 24 hours. Lock it , decide it, move on and dont continue with this hell of a confusion. BASTA

Quote from: zhoutong
--- Disclaimer: Pure suggestion. NOT OFFICIAL ---
Sorry to disappoint you.

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May 25, 2012, 06:53:49 PM
 #1488

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.
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May 25, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
 #1489

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

Why do you ask him? He's not involved in the process.

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May 25, 2012, 07:10:56 PM
 #1490

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

You should be asking that to Mr. Hacker. He's the only one who knows your Bitcoinica balance now lol

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May 25, 2012, 07:54:34 PM
 #1491

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Mods, please apply the SCAMMER tag to Zhou and his Bitcoinica Consultancy buddies.
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May 25, 2012, 07:59:31 PM
 #1492

Your email would be the evidence, but the 0 point is reserved for unknown account holders, like Blitz. As long as we sent anything to your email, we know that you're a customer and other points criteria should apply.
You did send stuff to my email, and I do have a long-standing Bitcoinica account with previous relatively large deposits and positions that would have made sense with the few k I would have requested if I was a crooked person.

I could have easily stolen a few thousand BTC. I would have been qualified for more than enough points.

Here is an IRC log from 20th of May for you. Do you think we are stupid?

Quote
<Blitzboom> i wonder if it’s true bitcoinica has no backups
<(retracted)> I'm pretty sure they do— less sure they were current.
<Blitzboom> ah, of cours
<Blitzboom> ee
<Blitzboom> "yes, i deposited 5k BTC right before the hack. GIVE IT BACK!"
<(retracted)> they may not even have that wallet!
<Blitzboom> i was tempted to lie on a claim for my account
<(retracted)> I expect a lot of people did.
<(retracted)> Balance  "100. btc" instead of "10.0 btc"
<Blitzboom> i didn’t since i would be stealing from actual depositors …
<Blitzboom> imagine they do the claims as they think based on whatever they have, and the hacker goes and leaks the actual image
<Blitzboom> people who received coins unjustly will quickly withdraw if they haven’t and bitcoinica would take an even bigger hit
<Blitzboom> i guess there is lots of fun potential left

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!

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May 25, 2012, 08:01:15 PM
 #1493

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

Why do you ask him? He's not involved in the process.
Because he's the only one giving answers that actually mean something, and seems to know to a certain level of detail what is going on with the claims.  I figured it was worth a try.
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May 25, 2012, 08:09:17 PM
 #1494

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!
It's not a disaster already?

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May 25, 2012, 08:12:08 PM
 #1495

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!
It's not a disaster already?
I mean insolvency style disaster. 18.5k BTC is nothing.

What are they going to do if (and it is not really "if" – when it comes to money, people will do it if they can get away with it) there are a few hundred cunning people like me who thought the same on 20th of May? Read my IRC log.

What are they going to do once the deposit claims total 500k BTC, most of them being from 100+ points users?

There are only so many funds, and the fight over them is ON.

Better find a way to retrieve the database before they go broke, no?

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 25, 2012, 08:14:21 PM
 #1496

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.

EDIT: the points thing was just a suggestion from Zhou, and isn't even being used, as far as we know.

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May 25, 2012, 08:15:54 PM
 #1497

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.
You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case? Grin Grin Grin

I think you are severely understating the risk. But I see that some people like this approach (the people getting the free money?), so why not. But don’t be surprised when Bitcoinica gets sued into oblivion.

edit: sorry, I just wanted to make VERY clear that without the database, they are doomed.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 25, 2012, 08:18:50 PM
 #1498

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.
You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case? Grin Grin Grin

I think you are severely understating the risk.

Relax, you already made your point clear.

I disagree, I think the idea it's not worth even consideration, but in any case they already saw your repeated big, red font warnings.

They are going to take a long time, so take it easy.

GPG ID: 7294199D - OTC ID: muyuu (470F97EB7294199D)
forum tea fund BTC 1Epv7KHbNjYzqYVhTCgXWYhGSkv7BuKGEU DOGE DF1eTJ2vsxjHpmmbKu9jpqsrg5uyQLWksM CAP F1MzvmmHwP2UhFq82NQT7qDU9NQ8oQbtkQ
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May 25, 2012, 08:20:49 PM
 #1499

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.
You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case? Grin Grin Grin

I think you are severely understating the risk.

Relax, you already made your point clear.

I disagree, I think the idea it's not worth even consideration, but in any case they already saw your repeated big, red font warnings.

They are going to take a long time, so take it easy.

he just wants to see hacker get away with another 18k btcs just for the lulz
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May 25, 2012, 08:26:46 PM
 #1500

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!
It's not a disaster already?
I mean insolvency style disaster. 18.5k BTC is nothing.

What are they going to do if (and it is not really "if" – when it comes to money, people will do it if they can get away with it) there are a few hundred cunning people like me who thought the same on 20th of May? Read my IRC log.

What are they going to do once the deposit claims total 500k BTC, most of them being from 100+ points users?

There are only so many funds, and the fight over them is ON.

Better find a way to retrieve the database before they go broke, no?

We have all kinds of accounting reports. They are outdated and incomplete to restore trading, but far current enough to identify fake claims.

Tihan is a careful person and he keeps all the logs when he runs his stats program.

Submitting false claims will only result in delay of fund returns. The point system I proposed is used to save time and effort for people with accurate records. There isn't any reason to verify people with verified Bitcoinica account and only 1 BTC balance (and our record proves so). We should just refund the customer in full immediately.

The claim process involves subjective judgements, and that's why I request for take-over. I'm obviously more familiar with the user base and I should provide as much assistance as I can.

I have requested again for takeover in the Skype group and provided my working plan. If they approve within 8 hours from now I'll probably start refunding customers by early next week and finish by the end of next week.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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