[Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[rjk]

Is this now the official procedure? If yes, please make it official properly. If not, sort it out and make the criteria official in the next 24 hours. Lock it , decide it, move on and dont continue with this hell of a confusion. BASTA

--- Disclaimer: Pure suggestion. NOT OFFICIAL ---

Sorry to disappoint you.

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[SgtSpike]

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

[muyuu]

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

Why do you ask him? He's not involved in the process.

[Raoul Duke]

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

You should be asking that to Mr. Hacker. He's the only one who knows your Bitcoinica balance now lol

[cryptoanarchist]

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Mods, please apply the SCAMMER tag to Zhou and his Bitcoinica Consultancy buddies.

[N12]

Your email would be the evidence, but the 0 point is reserved for unknown account holders, like Blitz. As long as we sent anything to your email, we know that you're a customer and other points criteria should apply.

You did send stuff to my email, and I do have a long-standing Bitcoinica account with previous relatively large deposits and positions that would have made sense with the few k I would have requested if I was a crooked person.

I could have easily stolen a few thousand BTC. I would have been qualified for more than enough points.

Here is an IRC log from 20th of May for you. Do you think we are stupid?

<Blitzboom> i wonder if it’s true bitcoinica has no backups
<(retracted)> I'm pretty sure they do— less sure they were current.
<Blitzboom> ah, of cours
<Blitzboom> ee
<Blitzboom> "yes, i deposited 5k BTC right before the hack. GIVE IT BACK!"
<(retracted)> they may not even have that wallet!
<Blitzboom> i was tempted to lie on a claim for my account
<(retracted)> I expect a lot of people did.
<(retracted)> Balance  "100. btc" instead of "10.0 btc"
<Blitzboom> i didn’t since i would be stealing from actual depositors …
<Blitzboom> imagine they do the claims as they think based on whatever they have, and the hacker goes and leaks the actual image
<Blitzboom> people who received coins unjustly will quickly withdraw if they haven’t and bitcoinica would take an even bigger hit
<Blitzboom> i guess there is lots of fun potential left

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!

[SgtSpike]

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

Why do you ask him? He's not involved in the process.

Because he's the only one giving answers that actually mean something, and seems to know to a certain level of detail what is going on with the claims.  I figured it was worth a try.

[rjk]

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!

It's not a disaster already?

[N12]

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!

It's not a disaster already?

I mean insolvency style disaster. 18.5k BTC is nothing.

What are they going to do if (and it is not really "if" – when it comes to money, people will do it if they can get away with it) there are a few hundred cunning people like me who thought the same on 20th of May? Read my IRC log.

What are they going to do once the deposit claims total 500k BTC, most of them being from 100+ points users?

There are only so many funds, and the fight over them is ON.

Better find a way to retrieve the database before they go broke, no?

[rjk]

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.

EDIT: the points thing was just a suggestion from Zhou, and isn't even being used, as far as we know.

[N12]

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.

You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case?

I think you are severely understating the risk. But I see that some people like this approach (the people getting the free money?), so why not. But don’t be surprised when Bitcoinica gets sued into oblivion.

edit: sorry, I just wanted to make VERY clear that without the database, they are doomed.

[muyuu]

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.

You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case?

I think you are severely understating the risk.

Relax, you already made your point clear.

I disagree, I think the idea it's not worth even consideration, but in any case they already saw your repeated big, red font warnings.

They are going to take a long time, so take it easy.

[Serge]

Soooo you submitting a withdrawal request for 1k BTC when you only had 10 is really going to work? Because it seems to me that they have plenty of logs as well as a blockchain to reference. I think you are overstating the risk.

You think they would be trying to scramble together whatever little piece of HINT of data they have if that really were the case?

I think you are severely understating the risk.

Relax, you already made your point clear.

I disagree, I think the idea it's not worth even consideration, but in any case they already saw your repeated big, red font warnings.

They are going to take a long time, so take it easy.

he just wants to see hacker get away with another 18k btcs just for the lulz

[zhoutong]

YOU BETTER SOMEHOW RETRIEVE THE DB FROM THE HACKER OR THIS IS GOING TO END UP IN DISASTER!

It's not a disaster already?

I mean insolvency style disaster. 18.5k BTC is nothing.

What are they going to do if (and it is not really "if" – when it comes to money, people will do it if they can get away with it) there are a few hundred cunning people like me who thought the same on 20th of May? Read my IRC log.

What are they going to do once the deposit claims total 500k BTC, most of them being from 100+ points users?

There are only so many funds, and the fight over them is ON.

Better find a way to retrieve the database before they go broke, no?

We have all kinds of accounting reports. They are outdated and incomplete to restore trading, but far current enough to identify fake claims.

Tihan is a careful person and he keeps all the logs when he runs his stats program.

Submitting false claims will only result in delay of fund returns. The point system I proposed is used to save time and effort for people with accurate records. There isn't any reason to verify people with verified Bitcoinica account and only 1 BTC balance (and our record proves so). We should just refund the customer in full immediately.

The claim process involves subjective judgements, and that's why I request for take-over. I'm obviously more familiar with the user base and I should provide as much assistance as I can.

I have requested again for takeover in the Skype group and provided my working plan. If they approve within 8 hours from now I'll probably start refunding customers by early next week and finish by the end of next week.

[muyuu]

We have all kinds of accounting reports. They are outdated and incomplete to restore trading, but far current enough to identify fake claims.

Tihan is a careful person and he keeps all the logs when he runs his stats program.

Submitting false claims will only result in delay of fund returns. The point system I proposed is used to save time and effort for people with accurate records. There isn't any reason to verify people with verified Bitcoinica account and only 1 BTC balance (and our record proves so). We should just refund the customer in full immediately.

The claim process involves subjective judgements, and that's why I request for take-over. I'm obviously more familiar with the user base and I should provide as much assistance as I can.

I have requested again for takeover in the Skype group and provided my working plan. If they approve within 8 hours from now I'll probably start refunding customers by early next week and finish by the end of next week.

Then why don't you just wait the 8 hours instead of coming here and publicly push your case? what if they actually don't want you to take over? more pressure?

[proudhon]

Zhou, I don't remember if I had a balance on Bitcoinica or not.  If I did, it was a rather old balance.  I submitted a claim when the claims form was revealed, and put 0 btc in everything since I had no clue if I had anything in there or not.  Should I take any additional steps?  Resubmit a claim with different balances?

It was a small amount if any (I think 1 BTC or 5 BTC), so not a huge deal, just wondering what I should do to be sure I get back anything I did have in there.

You should be asking that to Mr. Hacker. He's the only one who knows your Bitcoinica balance now lol

When is the hacker's claims page gonna be up?

[N12]

@zhoutong
So the accounting stuff says I had some past balance or deposit and the amount of funds I claimed was in the ballpark of this. What now? My fake claim still goes through.

Let me make myself very clear here.

There is but ONE solution where Bitcoinica does not necessarily go bust.

You have to retrieve the database!

Do it either by posting a bounty or by catching the hacker.

Every passing day without database increases the likelihood for it to be entirely forged once it is released!

Blitz out.

[kokjo]

You have to retrieve the database!

no. and it would be a very stupid idea to relie on the database now, that hacker would have messed it up already(i would at least).
the db is more then useless right now, its directly misleading.

[JusticeForYou]

You have to retrieve the database!

no. and it would be a very stupid idea to relie on the database now, that hacker would have messed it up already(i would at least).
the db is more then useless right now, its directly misleading.

It's compromised, not totally useless.

[zhoutong]

@zhoutong
So the accounting stuff says I had some past balance or deposit and the amount of funds I claimed was in the ballpark of this. What now? My fake claim still goes through.

Let me make myself very clear here.

There is but ONE solution where Bitcoinica does not necessarily go bust.

You have to retrieve the database!

Do it either by posting a bounty or by catching the hacker.

Every passing day without database increases the likelihood for it to be entirely forged once it is released!

Blitz out.

Your fake claim going through doesn't mean it will be approved. Everything is going to be reviewed by a human.

Of course getting the database back will be a good thing, but it's definitely not worth 18k BTC (even paying everyone 10% more will be cheaper than that).

Whether the hacker chooses to release the database or not it's his personal matter. I personally prefer the hacker not to leak anything though.

Your money will be returned. Just don't worry about it.

You can assume that we have the database now. The reconstruction work is much simpler than what I thought.