[ANN][EFL] Electronic Gulden | The Netherlands

[MaNI]

• NLG blocktime should be 150 seconds, while it is at >250 seconds for months now.

The Guldencoin block target is 250 seconds not 150 seconds, maybe you should double check your facts before you post.

Edit - never mind the above - I was not paying close attention due to all the other nonsense in the post distracting me, 150 seconds is of course 2 1/2 minutes which is what the Guldencoin target is.

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[MaNI]

• NLG blocktime should be 150 seconds, while it is at >250 seconds for months now.

The Guldencoin block target is 250 seconds not 150 seconds, maybe you should double check your facts before you post.

Further to the above, yes blocks are still coming in slightly slow - the latest version has drastically improved things here and the next one will do so even further - but this is because the coin experiences hash rate swings between 2 and 8 gh/s - this is a problem faced by any coin that faces some level of success - and therefore has lots of pools etc. wanting to mine it - but is not yet as big in terms of hashrate as litecoin or bitcoin that hashrate never drops downwards.

If EFL is not experiencing this problem then perhaps it is because the EFL hashrate is so low (difficulty seems to hover in the 30's) that there are not wild swings or large mining pools to worry about - basically to be quite blunt, nobody actually wants to mine it - this is not a good thing it means that EFL basically fails at the single most important thing a currency needs to do which is being secure. With a hash rate that low anyone can 50% attack the network with pocket change

It seems to me that 'blocks averaging 3 1/2 - 4 minutes instead of 2 1/2 minutes' is a far better problem to have than 'Anyone who can scrap together 0.2 BTC can 50% the coin at will'
i.e. Get your own house in order instead of going around pointing fingers, you will get much further by working on improving what you have than by bad mouthing others.

[bitwise-shifted]

• NLG blocktime should be 150 seconds, while it is at >250 seconds for months now.

The Guldencoin block target is 250 seconds not 150 seconds, maybe you should double check your facts before you post.

Obviously it is 250 seconds but it should be 150. You just even quoted the reference I gave you and you obviously didn't bother to look at it :  (https://explorer.guldencoin.com/#/). It is also obvious that Digishield introduced this. It is also obvious that NLG-miners saw their income decrease by 50%. Maybe nobody noticed, being too busy pointing at other coins. I suppose this is just negligence and not a deliberate act to slow down inflation. Your latest commit was on May 13. I suggest you update README.md next time or even better to repair this issue. Right now it seems like the worst example of central manipution of a currency I know of.

[MaNI]

• NLG blocktime should be 150 seconds, while it is at >250 seconds for months now.

The Guldencoin block target is 250 seconds not 150 seconds, maybe you should double check your facts before you post.

Obviously it is 250 seconds but it should be 150. You just even quoted the reference I gave you and you obviously didn't bother to look at it :  (https://explorer.guldencoin.com/#/). It is also obvious that Digishield introduced this. It is also obvious that NLG-miners saw their income decrease by 50%. Maybe nobody noticed, being too busy pointing at other coins. I suppose this is just negligence and not a deliberate act to slow down inflation. Your latest commit was on May 13. I suggest you update README.md next time or even better to repair this issue. Right now it seems like the worst example of central manipution of a currency I know of.

The only thing that is obvious is that you are (1) quite confused (2) like to make things up.
Here we have the original block spacing target from April 4 2014 - https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/2de5c37654417bbdecccbde170b865ebf3820b93/src/main.cpp#L1081
Here we have the current block spacing target in current build - https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1081

You will notice that they are identical, I hope this clears any confusion up.

[MaNI]

• NLG blocktime should be 150 seconds, while it is at >250 seconds for months now.

The Guldencoin block target is 250 seconds not 150 seconds, maybe you should double check your facts before you post.

Obviously it is 250 seconds but it should be 150. You just even quoted the reference I gave you and you obviously didn't bother to look at it :  (https://explorer.guldencoin.com/#/). It is also obvious that Digishield introduced this. It is also obvious that NLG-miners saw their income decrease by 50%. Maybe nobody noticed, being too busy pointing at other coins. I suppose this is just negligence and not a deliberate act to slow down inflation. Your latest commit was on May 13. I suggest you update README.md next time or even better to repair this issue. Right now it seems like the worst example of central manipution of a currency I know of.

The only thing that is obvious is that you are (1) quite confused (2) like to make things up.
Here we have the original block target from April 4 2014 - https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/2de5c37654417bbdecccbde170b865ebf3820b93/src/main.cpp#L1081
Here we have the current block target in current build - https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1081

You will notice that they are identical, I hope this clears any confusion up.

+1 MaNI

Bitwise is abusing your slip of the tong here in a wordgame. 2,5 minutes is 150 secoonds instead of 250 seconds   So the target was always 2,5 minutes and still is and bitwise knows that ofcourse. Just trying to make Guldencoin look bad as always and pretending that Guldencoin is pointing fingers.

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

[bitwise-shifted]

Look Guys, (Brito, 24hralttrade, Dutchyyy, bram_vnl, mani, veertje, OldmanKid, Fedoracoins)  

You are are discussing in our post on Bitcointalk about the release of the latest e-Gulden Wallet [ANN][EFL] Electronic Gulden | Christiaan Huygens wallet released. Reading through the replies it is easy to see that more then a few are confused about e-Gulden and Guldencoin. This is a fact and clarification is necessary. This is a place to do that, but when we raise a few issues and counter the scam accusations, that are thoroughly investigated and closed history, it is not the intention to bash onyone.

Instead Me, Rw13enlib88, Zero, Anonylz constantly stressed the need for cooperation instead of competition. If you want to work this out I suggest we get together to separate facts from fiction and release common findings. Right now this is becoming a soap, giving yourselfves points and such.

[bitwise-shifted]

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

Sorry to disturb you once more about this issue, that does matter to me. Allthough it is slightly out of scope, you did challenge me. If you promise people 1000 NLG each 2,5 minute (150 sec), when you anounce it on github and when you point to a C-Constant that confirms that once upon a time it was your target, but when the outcome is 600 NLG each 2,5 minute during the last two months than there is something wrong. You relieve the market of some 7 Milion NLG each month and you deprive this from your miners. Whatever is the cause, you should be open about the facts.

[OldManKid]

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

Sorry to disturb you once more about this issue, that does matter to me. Allthough it is slightly out of scope, you did challenge me. If you promise people 1000 NLG each 2,5 minute (150 sec), when you anounce it on github and when you point to a C-Constant that confirms that once upon a time it was your target, but when the outcome is 600 NLG each 2,5 minute during the last two months than there is something wrong. You relieve the market of some 7 Milion NLG each month and you deprive this from your miners. Whatever is the cause, you should be open about the facts.

The last time the price was pumped for EFL from 500 to 4000 the coin experienced close to a 10 hr block time and the reward was 25. So a 4000 price then is worth a 8000 price today for your miners.
EFL difficulty is +- 30 and only because of +- 1 minute blocks times, if you have 2.5 min or 5 min or 10min etc Then you have to divide the difficulty. So if EFL was same as bitcoin then your diff would
go to 3 unless miners didn't care about wasting electricity.

For EFL to get the same Multi pool pressure your price would need to be 11 times what it is now. The reason for the disparity is because EFL already have 2 reward halving and I think guldencoin hasn't had one yet. So for EFL blockchain to be as secure your price will need to be +- 40 000 Satoshi but then you will experience mass influx of multi pools and EFL will be a lot worse off then guldencoin.

[bitwise-shifted]

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

Sorry to disturb you once more about this issue, that does matter to me. Allthough it is slightly out of scope, you did challenge me. If you promise people 1000 NLG each 2,5 minute (150 sec), when you anounce it on github and when you point to a C-Constant that confirms that once upon a time it was your target, but when the outcome is 600 NLG each 2,5 minute during the last two months than there is something wrong. You relieve the market of some 7 Milion NLG each month and you deprive this from your miners. Whatever is the cause, you should be open about the facts.

The last time the price was pumped for EFL from 500 to 4000 the coin experienced close to a 10 hr block time and the reward was 25. So a 4000 price then is worth a 8000 price today for your miners.
EFL difficulty is +- 30 and only because of +- 1 minute blocks times, if you have 2.5 min or 5 min or 10min etc Then you have to divide the difficulty. So if EFL was same as bitcoin then your diff would
go to 3 unless miners didn't care about wasting electricity.

For EFL to get the same Multi pool pressure your price would need to be 11 times what it is now. The reason for the disparity is because EFL already have 2 reward halving and I think guldencoin hasn't had one yet. So for EFL blockchain to be as secure your price will need to be +- 40 000 Satoshi but then you will experience mass influx of multi pools and EFL will be a lot worse off then guldencoin.

OldManKid,  You respond to a quote that has no relevance to your response, ...
Your reasoning seems interesting but it has too much speculation and errors in it. I do reply this time but just to demonstrate why it will be the last time :
Your pumping notion is suggestive. As long as you don't work for Bittrex and it wasn't you then you know nothing.
Multipool pressure is real but it cannot be controlled by solutions Guldencoin choses to implement. (That is more than an opinion)
EFL only has had one reward halving; We make our own anouncements thank you.
4000 worth then is 8000 worth now, but only because the bitcoin price halved.
EFL difficulty is 40 not 30 and block times are 2 minutes (not one) and very exact !
EFL is not the same as Bitcoin and I suppose Miners do care about electricity. Did it cross your mind that they also might believe in EFL ? Not the technical foundation which is 99,9 % Satoshi, as are all Altcoins, but the way to go.

[OldManKid]

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

Sorry to disturb you once more about this issue, that does matter to me. Allthough it is slightly out of scope, you did challenge me. If you promise people 1000 NLG each 2,5 minute (150 sec), when you anounce it on github and when you point to a C-Constant that confirms that once upon a time it was your target, but when the outcome is 600 NLG each 2,5 minute during the last two months than there is something wrong. You relieve the market of some 7 Milion NLG each month and you deprive this from your miners. Whatever is the cause, you should be open about the facts.

The last time the price was pumped for EFL from 500 to 4000 the coin experienced close to a 10 hr block time and the reward was 25. So a 4000 price then is worth a 8000 price today for your miners.
EFL difficulty is +- 30 and only because of +- 1 minute blocks times, if you have 2.5 min or 5 min or 10min etc Then you have to divide the difficulty. So if EFL was same as bitcoin then your diff would
go to 3 unless miners didn't care about wasting electricity.

For EFL to get the same Multi pool pressure your price would need to be 11 times what it is now. The reason for the disparity is because EFL already have 2 reward halving and I think guldencoin hasn't had one yet. So for EFL blockchain to be as secure your price will need to be +- 40 000 Satoshi but then you will experience mass influx of multi pools and EFL will be a lot worse off then guldencoin.

OldManKid,  You respond to a quote that has no relevance to your response, ...
Your reasoning seems interesting but it has too much speculation and errors in it. I do reply this time but just to demonstrate why it will be the last time :
Your pumping notion is suggestive. As long as you don't work for Bittrex and it wasn't you then you know nothing.
Multipool pressure is real but it cannot be controlled by solutions Guldencoin choses to implement. (That is more than an opinion)
EFL only has had one reward halving; We make our own anouncements thank you.
4000 worth then is 8000 worth now, but only because the bitcoin price halved.
EFL difficulty is 40 not 30 and block times are 2 minutes (not one) and very exact !
EFL is not the same as Bitcoin and I suppose Miners do care about electricity. Did it cross your mind that they also might believe in EFL ? Not the technical foundation which is 99,9 % Satoshi, as are all Altcoins, but the way to go.

EFL difficulty is 40 not 30 and block times are 2 minutes (not one) and very exact !
I don't know both coins details off by heart but It doesn't mean I am wrong, the concept is still the same.
Blocks I looked at on first page 359240 - 359241 have almost 12 minute block time, that is far from exact?
Also your diff on this block explorer is between 30 and 40 http://explorer.cryptoblox.com/chain/Electronic%20Gulden    , but forget about exact details it's the fact the EFLs price is far too low for multi pools to even care about the coin.

4000 worth then is 8000 worth now, but only because the bitcoin price halved.
Not true, if bitcoin price stays the same and your rewards halve it means miners are getting less coins for same price. Coins rewards halve and price needs to double if bitcoin price stays the same.

Your pumping notion is suggestive. As long as you don't work for Bittrex and it wasn't you then you know nothing.
It was a pump.

OldManKid,  You respond to a quote that has no relevance to your response, ...
I am responding to the people who read on your forums and believe everything you say but on btctalk you dealing with experienced people, so you can't lie to us. You can understand what I am saying if you ask that person to use that 22 btc to pump the coin to 20k satoshi.

I don't know if you trolling to get free bumps on this ANN or if you really don't understand?

[Rw13enlib88]

now we have finished the EFL vs NLG figth, can we talk about what we gonna do to make EFL mass adopted?

[EFLisTheBest]

now we have finished the EFL vs NLG figth, can we talk about what we gonna do to make EFL mass adopted?

All work must be done by foundation and rich investors as they have most to gain, I don't have time to help but will support on these forums when I can.

[bitwise-shifted]

now we have finished the EFL vs NLG figth, can we talk about what we gonna do to make EFL mass adopted?

and

All work must be done by foundation and rich investors as they have most to gain, I don't have time to help but will support on these forums when I can.

All right, now we are talking !

We will be doing that (make EFL mass adopted) by releasing a killer-app soon (someone has to do it in crypto-country). Since the establishment of the foundation we have been working on education and carefully listening to what newbees experience when they are confronted with cryptocurrency. We have put together all major objections we received from mainstream users against the usability of cryptocurrency in general. In our latest newsletter we released a compilation of these objections, but since januari we have been working like hell to resolve them and we did succeed before the release of the latest newsletter.

We have asked the core-group in our community to participate in testing and we got heart-warming responses. July 3rd (one year after the foundation started) we will introduce the new wallet to the public through our newsletter (http://egulden.org/info/aanmelden-nieuwsbrief) and we will ask everyone to participate to help us improving it. We anticipate massive coordination and that is why we won't launch any marketing program yet. This is also the reason why we were relatively silent this year.

The first half year of our existence we stirred, disputed and listened. The second halve year we have been building. The next halve year we ( I really hope all of us) will be testing, improving and consolidating. We are confident that after that we will have a major showcase of where to go with cryptocurrency in general.

Testground will be Dutch territory, but the new wallet does not need many words. To give you an impression of what issues we have "attacked", here they are :

• Installation of a new wallet must be a matter of seconds.
• Someone who has never heard about e-Gulden (or cryptocyrrency for that matters) must be able to receive (own) them within one minute
• There is no need for an ordinary user to be a full node, to have its own copy of the full blockchain and to constantly service the network. The network needs to be there, but it will be serviced by volunteers and those that need the full network-functionality. Normal users can switch off their system and be able to use their money, the moment they switch it back on.
• All issues with authentication have been solved. With current techniques it is no longer necessary to remember long and strong passwords. The solution we applied is as safe as finding a grain in the known universe but does not require any username or password
• Public keys must go, at least from the user's perspective. If cryptocurrency ever wants to compete with fiatcurrency, you don't want 34-character addresses to be able to pay. Of course they will remain but they can be shortened like Lgk1ZfP2wzEMhL8RZbNChSKE7EXSoyYwLK = bitwise shifted
• People (in Europe) think in Euro's. A wallet must be equipped with the Euro denomination to make the wallet usable in everyday commerce. There are sufficient Exchanges available to calculate a reasonable average of e-Gulden an Bitcoin buys and sells. This will be the proposed wallet to wallet EFL-Euro price, presented in the new wallet. Near realtime (5 minutes) exchange statistics are supplied together with e-Gulden core statistics
• e-Guldens are not easy to get by yet, for a newbe user. We have a solution in place to solve that. We are trying to get the wallet connected to one or more of the important crypto-currency providers before the july release, based on oAuth

EDIT
Last but not least (and more to come)

• Micropayments are finally posible WITHOUT transaction fees. You can pay 0.00000001 EFL and the recipient will own it within one second. Your own balance will show/be "old balance"-0.00000001 . This way you can partition 0.1 EFL equaly with each dutch citizen

[EFLisTheBest]

After one of my friends showed me the block explorer evidence that 1 person holds most of the coins I have decided to not support EFL(pointless), NLG is just full of poor people so that coin will never go anywhere. So this will be my last post here. Good luck making that person rich!

[Rw13enlib88]

After one of my friends showed me the block explorer evidence that 1 person holds most of the coins I have decided to not support EFL(pointless), NLG is just full of poor people so that coin will never go anywhere. So this will be my last post here. Good luck making that person rich!

lol

you're great man. after a week and a little bit of research you change your mind from "EFLisTheBest" to "EFLSucks".

Did you think that maybe that address is from Bittrex/Cryptsy....

[Rw13enlib88]

now we have finished the EFL vs NLG figth, can we talk about what we gonna do to make EFL mass adopted?

and

All work must be done by foundation and rich investors as they have most to gain, I don't have time to help but will support on these forums when I can.

All right, now we are talking !

We will be doing that (make EFL mass adopted) by releasing a killer-app soon (someone has to do it in crypto-country). Since the establishment of the foundation we have been working on education and carefully listening to what newbees experience when they are confronted with cryptocurrency. We have put together all major objections we received from mainstream users against the usability of cryptocurrency in general. In our latest newsletter we released a compilation of these objections, but since januari we have been working like hell to resolve them and we did succeed before the release of the latest newsletter.

We have asked the core-group in our community to participate in testing and we got heart-warming responses. July 3rd (one year after the foundation started) we will introduce the new wallet to the public through our newsletter (http://egulden.org/info/aanmelden-nieuwsbrief) and we will ask everyone to participate to help us improving it. We anticipate massive coordination and that is why we won't launch any marketing program yet. This is also the reason why we were relatively silent this year.

The first half year of our existence we stirred, disputed and listened. The second halve year we have been building. The next halve year we ( I really hope all of us) will be testing, improving and consolidating. We are confident that after that we will have a major showcase of where to go with cryptocurrency in general.

Testground will be Dutch territory, but the new wallet does not need many words. To give you an impression of what issues we have "attacked", here they are :

• Installation of a new wallet must be a matter of seconds.
• Someone who has never heard about e-Gulden (or cryptocyrrency for that matters) must be able to receive (own) them within one minute
• There is no need for an ordinary user to be a full node, to have its own copy of the full blockchain and to constantly service the network. The network needs to be there, but it will be serviced by volunteers and those that need the full network-functionality. Normal users can switch off their system and be able to use their money, the moment they switch it back on.
• All issues with authentication have been solved. With current techniques it is no longer necessary to remember long and strong passwords. The solution we applied is as safe as finding a grain in the known universe but does not require any username or password
• Public keys must go, at least from the user's perspective. If cryptocurrency ever wants to compete with fiatcurrency, you don't want 34-character addresses to be able to pay. Of course they will remain but they can be shortened like Lgk1ZfP2wzEMhL8RZbNChSKE7EXSoyYwLK = bitwise shifted
• People (in Europe) think in Euro's. A wallet must be equipped with the Euro denomination to make the wallet usable in everyday commerce. There are sufficient Exchanges available to calculate a reasonable average of e-Gulden an Bitcoin buys and sells. This will be the proposed wallet to wallet EFL-Euro price, presented in the new wallet. Near realtime (5 minutes) exchange statistics are supplied together with e-Gulden core statistics
• e-Guldens are not easy to get by yet, for a newbe user. We have a solution in place to solve that. We are trying to get the wallet connected to one or more of the important crypto-currency providers before the july release, based on oAuth

EDIT
Last but not least (and more to come)

• Micropayments are finally posible WITHOUT transaction fees. You can pay 0.00000001 EFL and the recipient will own it within one second. Your own balance will show/be "old balance"-0.00000001 . This way you can partition 0.1 EFL equaly with each dutch citizen

 

Awesome news!!!! 

I'll be glad to test that!!

Great job guys!!!!!

[Anonylz]

@BinPool - http://efl.binpool.com/ - up and launch and working good

Dev Please added pool in OP

Please adjust our coin info in the pool to be added to the list, right now you are pointing to unknown dropbox files.

[OldManKid]

After one of my friends showed me the block explorer evidence that 1 person holds most of the coins I have decided to not support EFL(pointless), NLG is just full of poor people so that coin will never go anywhere. So this will be my last post here. Good luck making that person rich!

lol

you're great man. after a week and a little bit of research you change your mind from "EFLisTheBest" to "EFLSucks".

Did you think that maybe that address is from Bittrex/Cryptsy....

https://www.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-EFL and distribution. Didn't need a block explorer

[Anonylz]

After one of my friends showed me the block explorer evidence that 1 person holds most of the coins I have decided to not support EFL(pointless), NLG is just full of poor people so that coin will never go anywhere. So this will be my last post here. Good luck making that person rich!

lol

you're great man. after a week and a little bit of research you change your mind from "EFLisTheBest" to "EFLSucks".

Did you think that maybe that address is from Bittrex/Cryptsy....

https://www.bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-EFL and distribution. Didn't need a block explorer

ow man i need to get out of btc fast! Didn't that anonymous dev still have all those coins for himself? That scamartist just took off without saying goodbye 

[bitwise-shifted]

After one of my friends showed me the block explorer evidence that 1 person holds most of the coins I have decided to not support EFL(pointless), NLG is just full of poor people so that coin will never go anywhere. So this will be my last post here. Good luck making that person rich!

You don't have to be ashamed to be superficial, but if you express yourself on Bitcointalk it becomes so visible. You'd better just watch.

Did it cross your mind that public keys with large balances could belong to multiple people and a miriad of small balances could belong to one. There is no way to tell what belongs to who. There are more then 10.000 public keys with positive balances in existance. 47 of hem contain more then 99.000 each, 9 of them are premine (https://chainz.cryptoid.info/efl/#!rich). There is no way to interconnect these public keys. You can trace their inputs and outputs but nothing more. Only if you are not concerned about privacy you will use a public key twice. There has been one public key (LXZKXgKU3vToPAoGgTsx83QcxWRjWHfyF6) that had a total influx of 4188250.98 That key belongs to bittrex and has been used in the early days by the original devs to collect bitcoins and pay their bills. That's not the way it should have been but they are reasonably accounted for and they are all on the market now or in other peoples wallets.
To clear any misunderstanding : the 750.000 leftover is part of the balance of the bittrex wallet. It has nothing to do with individual account-balances. Bittrex accounts are just database records outside the blockchain.

To put things in perspective further :
There is, as we speak 14.571.428 EFL in existance and 4.956.772 of that is secured premine. The premine balance is 100% accounted for on http://egulden.org/info/boekhouding/premine . The 38 "rich" public keys together contain 7.7M EFL. At least 6 of these belong to bittrex and are spread over multiple accounts, but again on bittrex there exist 7 100K+ accounts. For the rest nothing is certain. The 7 bittrex accounts could belong to 1 person or to 6 and a group of 10. whatever. You cannot look in other peoples wallets and that is a good thing in a free market otherwise it wouldn't be free.

In conclusion : 75% of EFL belongs to rich public keys, 38 in total. The rest belongs to keys that contain <100K, 10.000 in total.  
Thats probably better than the distribution of fiat money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth). One thing is very close to certain : All  current EFL owners got there EFL's by mining, from the open market or through donations. That's definitely better than with fiat. So if justice is your real concern I suggest you go and look somewhere else.