[ANN][EFL] Electronic Gulden | The Netherlands

[Anonylz]

It's a bold move their part. The total will still be the same 1.68 billion but it allows later adopters to get in instead of a few early people holding all the coins . This is the problem with PoS the holders have all the power.

You can look at it several ways, but bold would not be our word to choose.
You have to compare the situation before and after the protocol change and look at it from a long term perspective, say 20 years. Compare what was said (promised) with what they do to judge the current actors. In this very early stage you might still get away with switching the protocol parameters.  Changing the Bitcoin blocksizelimit sounds trivial if you compare it with changing the reward scheme. Doing that you are certain that at least half of the bitcoin community would vote against your decision. Off course stakeholdes will have less problems with decisions that reduce longterm inflation. Why don't they stop production alltogether and make it PoS indeed.

The e-Gulden foundation will stick with their setup instead. Just read our code, our charter and witness the evolvement of our blockchain (EDIT: Which is in fact all yours)

It look like EFLs problems just starting , last block 8hrs after litecoin halving. Now bitwise-shifted can see his ave blocks not going to be 2min as he was very proud to boast about. Welcome to the club of Multi pool abuse my friends. Only way to combat is more dedicated hash or lower price.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/efl/

If you look at it strict we still got some catching up to do after the first week of insta mining (march 2014), so actually such blocks get us closer to average. The real solution to the problem is actually higher price, because that's the only thing that dedicates miners. Litecoinhalving has nothing to do with it, there is someone who tries to make a point, if you go back in history you will see that it happens more often. My point is that the next block get's found and we're still on our way to the next halving.

[Brito]

It's a bold move their part. The total will still be the same 1.68 billion but it allows later adopters to get in instead of a few early people holding all the coins . This is the problem with PoS the holders have all the power.

You can look at it several ways, but bold would not be our word to choose.
You have to compare the situation before and after the protocol change and look at it from a long term perspective, say 20 years. Compare what was said (promised) with what they do to judge the current actors. In this very early stage you might still get away with switching the protocol parameters.  Changing the Bitcoin blocksizelimit sounds trivial if you compare it with changing the reward scheme. Doing that you are certain that at least half of the bitcoin community would vote against your decision. Off course stakeholdes will have less problems with decisions that reduce longterm inflation. Why don't they stop production alltogether and make it PoS indeed.

The e-Gulden foundation will stick with their setup instead. Just read our code, our charter and witness the evolvement of our blockchain (EDIT: Which is in fact all yours)

It look like EFLs problems just starting , last block 8hrs after litecoin halving. Now bitwise-shifted can see his ave blocks not going to be 2min as he was very proud to boast about. Welcome to the club of Multi pool abuse my friends. Only way to combat is more dedicated hash or lower price.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/efl/

If you look at it strict we still got some catching up to do after the first week of insta mining (march 2014), so actually such blocks get us closer to average. The real solution to the problem is actually higher price, because that's the only thing that dedicates miners. Litecoinhalving has nothing to do with it, there is someone who tries to make a point, if you go back in history you will see that it happens more often. My point is that the next block get's found and we're still on our way to the next halving.

I hope halving comes soon to save the day or it's going to be long blocks followed by fast blocks but if price goes to 7000 you will have the same problems after halving, if price goes to 7000 now it will be 16hr block times.

[Brito]

Ahh yes, I of course mean 2.5 minutes and 1.5 minutes, not paying close attention my mind is elsewhere on more important matters so apologies for that Anyway all other points remain, you should be far more concerned about the difficulty than by the block spacing being slightly off.

Sorry to disturb you once more about this issue, that does matter to me. Allthough it is slightly out of scope, you did challenge me. If you promise people 1000 NLG each 2,5 minute (150 sec), when you anounce it on github and when you point to a C-Constant that confirms that once upon a time it was your target, but when the outcome is 600 NLG each 2,5 minute during the last two months than there is something wrong. You relieve the market of some 7 Milion NLG each month and you deprive this from your miners. Whatever is the cause, you should be open about the facts.

The last time the price was pumped for EFL from 500 to 4000 the coin experienced close to a 10 hr block time and the reward was 25. So a 4000 price then is worth a 8000 price today for your miners.
EFL difficulty is +- 30 and only because of +- 1 minute blocks times, if you have 2.5 min or 5 min or 10min etc Then you have to divide the difficulty. So if EFL was same as bitcoin then your diff would
go to 3 unless miners didn't care about wasting electricity.

For EFL to get the same Multi pool pressure your price would need to be 11 times what it is now. The reason for the disparity is because EFL already have 2 reward halving and I think guldencoin hasn't had one yet. So for EFL blockchain to be as secure your price will need to be +- 40 000 Satoshi but then you will experience mass influx of multi pools and EFL will be a lot worse off then guldencoin.

The above from oldmankid sums up what will happen to EFL if price goes very high.

[Dutchyyy]

The above from oldmankid sums up what will happen to EFL if price goes very high.

EFL block times are 2 minutes ave and not 1 minute but still valid argument.

[bitwise-shifted]

The above from oldmankid sums up what will happen to EFL if price goes very high.

EFL block times are 2 minutes ave and not 1 minute but still valid argument.

Oldmankid decided to remain silent, but his rubbish still gets quoted I see.  Lets try again :

Exposure to multipools is allways a problem because you cannot defend a system against someone who pulls the plug out of it without notice. Difficulty is calculated before work starts. When a big fellow retreats the others will have to solve the problem. Difficulty calculation, whether you call it KGW or Delta has nothing to do with that (hardly).

The decision of a large pool to withdraw mining is based on profit. Mining profitability is based on
1. Total hashrate
2. Average blocktime
3. Blockreward
4. Price of a single currency unit

The vulnerability for sudden change of hashing power depends on the level of loyal hashing power. Currently the NLG-community is willing to pay about five times as much for hashing power as the EFL-community. Mining profitability is about the same through the entire Altcoin ecosystem. I just calculated it for three altcoins :
NLG 0.006 BTC per hour per Ghs
LTC 0.0065 BTC per hour per Ghs
EFL 0.01 BTC per hour per Ghs
This makes EFL exposure to Multipools slightly higher at the moment. We will see what happens with "loyal" hashingpower after september 1st when NLG will reward miners with 1/10th they used to.

[Anonylz]

4000 blocks untill our halving kicks in, completely free from any manipulation!

[Yoshi Livo]

3500 blocks to go, hashrate over 2 Gh/s at the moment! If you have not yet checked out www.efl.nl I can really recommend it.

[Yoshi Livo]

Now for sale in our eGulden webshop: Liberland Chilisauce, exclusively for eGulden!

http://guldenplaza.nl/market/view/33/liberland-chillisaus

Many settlers took risks of prison sentences to make and bring this product to market. Some are indeed still sitting in jail - months later!

It took many dangerous missions inside Liberland to make sure that the product could be launched as the first, true Liberlandian agricultural product.

Care has been taken that this product is not only novel, but of the very finest quality. Not being believers in intellectual property, the recipe is 'open-sauce'. Be aware - the sauce (not unlike the cause of Liberty) is powerful, and not for the weak at heart!

[Yoshi Livo]

Little commercial, for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s68JMqQ7GVA

[Anonylz]

2500 blocks to go, 3Gh/s mining power and a very promising day on the market! Can we finally break out of that 30 bits range, where in the last 50 days over 1 million units have been traded?   

[Dutchyyy]

2500 blocks to go, 3Gh/s mining power and a very promising day on the market! Can we finally break out of that 30 bits range, where in the last 50 days over 1 million units have been traded?  

It looks like the days of halving giving coins a higher price is over. Litecoin price has gone down but maybe EFL will be different because the price is very low already and we got our secret weapon to help push it up.
I won't sell below 6500.

[bitwise-shifted]

2500 blocks to go, 3Gh/s mining power and a very promising day on the market! Can we finally break out of that 30 bits range, where in the last 50 days over 1 million units have been traded?  

It looks like the days of halving giving coins a higher price is over. Litecoin price has gone down but maybe EFL will be different because the price is very low already and we got our secret weapon to help push it up.
I won't sell below 6500.

Why would you sell at all? Selling means converting to Bitcoin and eventually to Euro I suppose. Thats the wrong direction don't you think? E-Gulden (or cryptocurrency in general) is intended to be spend in the real economy once it has reached some real value and after merchants have popped up to help you spend. Or you can pay it to your employees as an incentive, give it as pocket-money to your children, invest it in things you believe in.

If you do that at a price of 6500 you will not be taken seriously, unless bitcoin has given you a lift. But do what you please. Even if one EFL has the price of one bread (1000000, so 150 fold) it still has a tremendous upward potential. Once it has reached its potential it still remains deflationary and serves its purpose as money.

If I were to chose to sell my euros or my EFL at any time you know my choice. All right, when I am out of euro's there is no choice. That time will come before the Euro has lost all its value. The time the euro has lost all its value will come too once people realise there is a better alternative.

[Dutchyyy]

2500 blocks to go, 3Gh/s mining power and a very promising day on the market! Can we finally break out of that 30 bits range, where in the last 50 days over 1 million units have been traded?  

It looks like the days of halving giving coins a higher price is over. Litecoin price has gone down but maybe EFL will be different because the price is very low already and we got our secret weapon to help push it up.
I won't sell below 6500.

Why would you sell at all? Selling means converting to Bitcoin and eventually to Euro I suppose. Thats the wrong direction don't you think? E-Gulden (or cryptocurrency in general) is intended to be spend in the real economy once it has reached some real value and after merchants have popped up to help you spend. Or you can pay it to your employees as an incentive, give it as pocket-money to your children, invest it in things you believe in.

If you do that at a price of 6500 you will not be taken seriously, unless bitcoin has given you a lift. But do what you please. Even if one EFL has the price of one bread (1000000, so 150 fold) it still has a tremendous upward potential. Once it has reached its potential it still remains deflationary and serves its purpose as money.

If I were to chose to sell my euros or my EFL at any time you know my choice. All right, when I am out of euro's there is no choice. That time will come before the Euro has lost all its value. The time the euro has lost all its value will come too once people realise there is a better alternative.

I will stay in BTC, won't exchange any of my crypto back to fiat. BTC just has all the infrastructure and more a safe haven. EFL is very speculative still and volume on bittrex looks very fake to me but I know people like Niels is very passionate about EFL and will put his last cent into pushing the price up. So I help by buying low and he gets more EFL and I make a btc profit.

The next doubling in price will put EFL in top 80 on coinmarketcap and then it competes with coins like digibyte, I think even you will agree EFL won't be as attractive as it is at this price levels.

[bitwise-shifted]

I will stay in BTC, won't exchange any of my crypto back to fiat. BTC just has all the infrastructure and more a safe haven. EFL is very speculative still and volume on bittrex looks very fake to me but I know people like Niels is very passionate about EFL and will put his last cent into pushing the price up. So I help by buying low and he gets more EFL and I make a btc profit.

The next doubling in price will put EFL in top 80 on coinmarketcap and then it competes with coins like digibyte, I think even you will agree EFL won't be as attractive as it is at this price levels.

Of course, that is what I meant : Lets stay in crypto. Whether Bitcoin is safer investment wise requires looking into the future, but as an inverstor it is wise to spread.

Your notion that the price is being pushed up, does only mean that there is more buying pressure than selling pressure. It is an open market and everybody can participate, there is nothing fake about that. If I look at the total volume of EFL exchanged on Bittrex the past three months (http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/pair/efl/btc/bittrex/3-months), it gets close to 2M. An entire buy wall of 25 BTC has evaporated (0,7M). Interesting times, thats for sure.

[Dutchyyy]

I will stay in BTC, won't exchange any of my crypto back to fiat. BTC just has all the infrastructure and more a safe haven. EFL is very speculative still and volume on bittrex looks very fake to me but I know people like Niels is very passionate about EFL and will put his last cent into pushing the price up. So I help by buying low and he gets more EFL and I make a btc profit.

The next doubling in price will put EFL in top 80 on coinmarketcap and then it competes with coins like digibyte, I think even you will agree EFL won't be as attractive as it is at this price levels.

Of course, that is what I meant : Lets stay in crypto. Whether Bitcoin is safer investment wise requires looking into the future, but as an inverstor it is wise to spread.

Your notion that the price is being pushed up, does only mean that there is more buying pressure than selling pressure. It is an open market and everybody can participate, there is nothing fake about that. If I look at the total volume of EFL exchanged on Bittrex the past three months (http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/pair/efl/btc/bittrex/3-months), it gets close to 2M. An entire buy wall of 25 BTC has evaporated (0,7M). Interesting times, thats for sure.

All coins will go up when the currency problems raise it's ugly head , so it's safe to be in most coins that are active. I am very excited about the future and scared at the same time.

[Anonylz]

2000 blocks left!

[Dutchyyy]

2000 blocks left!

EFL doesn't have to worry about block times right now, after the reward halving it will be better. You can see the amazing difference with guldencoin blockchain after reducing rewards.  Oldmankid was correct about the reason they were having so many problems with multi pools. The rewards were just too juicy for the price.

[Captain YCLO]

1200 blocks to go, I got the new newsletter in my mailbox today, the new sourcecode and downloads are available here: https://github.com/Electronic-Gulden-Foundation/egulden/releases this should take care of the sync problems, feedback is welcome!

[EFLFoundation]

OP adjusted

[dragonseer]

1200 blocks to go, I got the new newsletter in my mailbox today, the new sourcecode and downloads are available here: https://github.com/Electronic-Gulden-Foundation/egulden/releases this should take care of the sync problems, feedback is welcome!

The new wallet solved my issue, great!