GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[mullvads]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/20006/validation-of-gaw-mining/3

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[darkangel11]

Interesting, this should push them up in cloud mining rankings. At least the ones that count transparency.

[I_IZ_CEO]

coinbrief

Dustin O'Bryant
November 5, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Yes, I am aware of some questions about GAW that have arisen since the HashCoin whitepaper was released (there were murmurs before, but it is getting heated now). Obviously, my analysis here was not accurate, as they have taken this in a completely different direction, and I will be covering the developments as soon as I have a chance.

After GAW’s early success with hardware, and consistent ability to crush their competition, I had a lot of faith in them. That being said, I’m not so sure anymore.

[suchmoon]

Apparently proof of mining is coming from a respected third party.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/20006/media-validation-of-gaw-mining

Please please please don't be someone unfamiliar with crypto.

"We visited GAW's mining facilities and can confirm once and for all that they have a lot of machines" - wsj blogger

"They even reviewed detailed information about our mining center to validate our mining". Nobody visited anything as far as I can understand.

[suchmoon]

Answers:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/20020

There are some interesting bits but some majors ones were left unanswered, like how Prime Controllers or Orion Controllers will benefit users.

Q: What FIAT currencies will be available in HashBase?
A: FIAT conversions will be available via PayBase and may be available via HashBase through an exchange API. Conversions will start with USD first, then move to other currencies.

Q: Do I need to get verified to trade PayCoin and Bitcoin for FIAT on PayBase?
A: PayBase will follow all local regulations and AML compliance laws. Verification will be required and KYC policies will be in place.

Q: What is the relationship between Prime Hashlets and Prime Controllers and how will the miners benefit?
A: TBA

Q: How will HashPoints be converted to PayCoin?
A: Upon the end of the second ICO round, all HashPoints will be automatically converted to PayCoins.

Q: Will Hashpoints disappear or will they still exist and used for AMPS?
A: HashPoints will be completely phased out upon conversion. All amps inside HashBase will be purchased with PayCoins.

Q: Can we buy Hashlets from the HashMarket with PayCoin?
A: Upon the full release and integration with PayBase you will be able to purchase all GAW products with PayCoins.

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Q: How will AMPS for other hashlets be purchased?
A: All AMPS in the HashBase Amp Store will be bought with PayCoins.

Q: Is POS for PayCoin only in Hashbase or also in a wallet on my PC?
A: Both. PayCoin is an open decentralized cryptocurrency. Anyone can download a wallet and participate in the PayCoin network to earn a share of the network stake.

Q: Can I use HashPoints or PayCoins to upgrade a poorly performing hashlet, or any hashlet, to any other hashlet or a HashStaker?
A: Yes, the HashBase AMP store will include upgrade paths for hashlets and more.

Q: Can you buy hashlets with HashPoints at some later date?
A: HashPoints will be deprecated once the conversion happens. Hashlets will be purchasable with BTC until the integration of PayCoin.

Q: What will be the price of the Orion Hashlet and what are the advantages?
A: TBA

Q: What exchanges are going to list Paycoins, & when?
A: Most major exchanges will begin trading Paycoins mid-December to January.

Q: Will merchants accepting PayCoin be US-only or worldwide?
A: Worldwide online retailers will accept PayCoin directly or through third party payment processors upon launch. Other retailers and brick-and-mortar merchants will follow worldwide.

Q: After ICO round 2 how long do we have to wait to start exchanging our PayCoins?
A: PayCoin exchanges are expected to come online mid-December to January.
Q: Nowadays the payout of HashPoint Pool has a correlation with BTC value. Will PayCoin be completely independent of the valuation of BTC in the future?
A: PayCoin value will be what the market determines it to be. The value will have an exchange rate to BTC, but will be independent of BTC’s value.

Q: Will we be able to transfer our HPs to other users?
A: No. After the conversion from HashPoints to PayCoins, users will be able to transfer PayCoins to other users.

Q: How do we get the PayCoins if ICO Round 2 begins and ZenCloud is still in use?
A: The HashPoint pool and HashPoint mining have been extended to allow extra time for customers to ramp up their HashPoints before the PayCoin conversion.

Q: How many days will we be able to buy PayCoins with HashPoints for the initial conversion rate?
A: All HashPoints will be automatically converted to PayCoins. Everyone will receive the same rate for the conversion.

Q: Once we convert out HashPoints for PayCoins, how long will it be before we can buy hashlets with it?
A: Mid-December.

Q: How do we get a HashBase card like the one in the picture, which said HashPass on it?
A: This will be announced and a limited beta group will be invited to receive the first cards.

Q: How will we fund and use the HashBase card?
A: The HashBase card will work the same as any credit/debit card. Funding will be done through PayBase or through HashBase via a PayBase API.

Q: Will "Safe Fund" be implemented in the HashBase interface?
A: This is a planned feature for PayBase with integration to HashBase.

Q: Will HashBase begin accepting DOGE and LTC payments like GAWMiners?
A: We have not decided this yet. Let us know your thoughts!

Q: I read in the White Paper (Page 11, footnote 4,) that wallets or addresses can be destroyed? This sounds like a serious concern.
A: This was a verbage issue from our technical writers. The correct statement should read with added clarification: “PayCoin™ employs additional measures to prevent network abuse by micro transaction spam. Addresses sending multiple micro transactions smaller than the network fee may be declined transaction processing for a set period of time. All transactions considered invalid, where the transaction amount is less than the network fee, will be declined.”

Q: What will the pool payouts for Paycoin/MH of Primes?
A: TBA

Q: Do I need to sign up for HashBase upon launch, or will my ZenCloud account be ported over to HashBase without needing to do anything?
A: Our technical team has stated that there will be a full migration of accounts from ZenCloud to HashBase. Users will simply have to login to HashBase to activate their new account.

Q: What about 2FA?
A: Please see this post: https://hashtalk.org/topic/19189/more-than-just-a-new-coin

Q: What will happen to the Old PayCoin PYC on exchanges?
A: We will work directly with our exchange partners regarding trading symbols and exchange listings.

Q: What will the new symbol be on exchanges?
A: A: We will work directly with our exchange partners regarding trading symbols and exchange listings.

Q: Can we get an exact conversion figure? Hashpoints to PayCoin?
A: The exact figures will be announced prior to the conversion once our systems are setup to perform the migration from HashPoints to PayCoins.

Q: Will HashPoints mined after the 24th (assuming availability of the pool) convert at the same ratio?
A: HashPoints mined at any time will be converted at the same rate.

Q: Will the payment cards, (credit or debit,) on HashBase be FIAT or PayCoin card? Visa or Mastercard?
A: The details of the card will be announced at a later date.

[suchmoon]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

[verloren]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

Unless they set it so that Hashpool is an option and people still convert HP to PC rather than mine PC directly.

[suchmoon]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

Unless they set it so that Hashpool is an option and people still convert HP to PC rather than mine PC directly.

It's still an odd setup - you have a SHA256 coin that can't be mined with a SHA256 hashlet, but can be mined with the pseudo-Scrypt hashlets. Or are you saying they would make HP Pool an option for Genesis?

Edit: this seems to have been retracted. So the question about who/what/how will be able to mine PayCoin is still open.

GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

  @Full-Metal-B*tch said:

    @GAW_CEO said:

      Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering it's SHA-256 algorithm?
      A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW   
stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

    Am I reading this as Zens will still be able to mine Pay Coins by proxy via hash points during the POW stage (i.e. after the coin launches?)
    Also, how long is the POW stage and POS stage?

Sorry, this should not have been in there. We considered letting hashpool stay up, but we decided to end it at the end of the second round as originally stated

[Phildo]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

Unless they set it so that Hashpool is an option and people still convert HP to PC rather than mine PC directly.

It's still an odd setup - you have a SHA256 coin that can't be mined with a SHA256 hashlet, but can be mined with the pseudo-Scrypt hashlets. Or are you saying they would make HP Pool an option for Genesis?

Edit: this seems to have been retracted. So the question about who/what/how will be able to mine PayCoin is still open.

GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

  @Full-Metal-B*tch said:

    @GAW_CEO said:

      Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering it's SHA-256 algorithm?
      A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW   
stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

    Am I reading this as Zens will still be able to mine Pay Coins by proxy via hash points during the POW stage (i.e. after the coin launches?)
    Also, how long is the POW stage and POS stage?

Sorry, this should not have been in there. We considered letting hashpool stay up, but we decided to end it at the end of the second round as originally stated

It's almost as if they're completely making shit up as they go along.

[numanoid]

Edit: this seems to have been retracted. So the question about who/what/how will be able to mine PayCoin is still open.

We're all waiting for confirmation on how to mine outside of GAW, but we've been told that outside miners will be able to do it.  Along with hosting Prime and Orion controllers.

The initial question was whether Genesis hashlets could mine the coin, which we know cannot be pointed to an outside pool.  Primes will be able to mine them at an unknown rate, but nobody knows how or when outside SHA miners can mine the coin.

On a related note, do we have a block reward schedule (the one based on thermodynamics?)  If so, how does the Prime controller fit into all this where it can "create more coins based on demand" or some such?

[numanoid]

It's almost as if they're completely making shit up as they go along.

This has been pretty clear since day one that Primes will be able to do things other hashlets can't.  If GAW allowed Genesis to mine the coin it would have been throwing the users a bone.  It's not surprising that this was a mistake to be added to the questions since it's been well known that ONLY PRIMES can mine the coin post launch.

[I_IZ_CEO]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

Unless they set it so that Hashpool is an option and people still convert HP to PC rather than mine PC directly.

It's still an odd setup - you have a SHA256 coin that can't be mined with a SHA256 hashlet, but can be mined with the pseudo-Scrypt hashlets. Or are you saying they would make HP Pool an option for Genesis?

Edit: this seems to have been retracted. So the question about who/what/how will be able to mine PayCoin is still open.

GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

  @Full-Metal-B*tch said:

    @GAW_CEO said:

      Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering it's SHA-256 algorithm?
      A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW   
stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

    Am I reading this as Zens will still be able to mine Pay Coins by proxy via hash points during the POW stage (i.e. after the coin launches?)
    Also, how long is the POW stage and POS stage?

Sorry, this should not have been in there. We considered letting hashpool stay up, but we decided to end it at the end of the second round as originally stated

It's almost as if they're completely making shit up as they go along.

[suchmoon]

We're all waiting for confirmation on how to mine outside of GAW, but we've been told that outside miners will be able to do it.  Along with hosting Prime and Orion controllers.

The initial question was whether Genesis hashlets could mine the coin, which we know cannot be pointed to an outside pool.  Primes will be able to mine them at an unknown rate, but nobody knows how or when outside SHA miners can mine the coin.

On a related note, do we have a block reward schedule (the one based on thermodynamics?)  If so, how does the Prime controller fit into all this where it can "create more coins based on demand" or some such?

I thought there was going to be another white paper revision with some more details in it? Maybe I made that up though.

[DARKANGEL6415]

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

you are 100% right buddy! if there is going to be a monopoly in crypto currencies then there is no point to adopt crypto currencies. just stick with our bank !!

I know right i would just stay with my bank atleast i know where to go and have some security. Imagine bitcoin being a monopoly i am sorry sir you are overdrawn by 0.000002 btc you got to pay over draft charge of 0.001 btc for each day you are negative balance  

[suchmoon]

It's almost as if they're completely making shit up as they go along.

This has been pretty clear since day one that Primes will be able to do things other hashlets can't.  If GAW allowed Genesis to mine the coin it would have been throwing the users a bone.  It's not surprising that this was a mistake to be added to the questions since it's been well known that ONLY PRIMES can mine the coin post launch.

But if outside SHA256 miners can mine it, and it's sufficiently profitable, then any home miner and other cloud services could take advantage of it, but GAW's own SHA256 miners couldn't? That would be really odd.

Edit: Primes can still have their 5:1 advantage or 40 GH/s or whatever it was supposed to be. And there is still the whole "TBA" regarding Prime Controllers and how it connects to Prime Hashlets (they should really rethink naming, no need to have the same name for two completely different concepts).

[ZiG]

This is interesting:

Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering its SHA-256 algorithm?
A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

Sounds like no outside mining, if even their own Genesis can't mine it. Also doesn't fit the other answers stating that Hashpoints will be discontinued once PayCoin shows up.

Unless they set it so that Hashpool is an option and people still convert HP to PC rather than mine PC directly.

It's still an odd setup - you have a SHA256 coin that can't be mined with a SHA256 hashlet, but can be mined with the pseudo-Scrypt hashlets. Or are you saying they would make HP Pool an option for Genesis?

Edit: this seems to have been retracted. So the question about who/what/how will be able to mine PayCoin is still open.

GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

  @Full-Metal-B*tch said:

    @GAW_CEO said:

      Q: Will Genesis get the option to mine PayCoin, considering it's SHA-256 algorithm?
      A: Paycoins POW stage will only be available for a small period of time. Our technical team is still analyzing the possibility of changing over equipment to mine PayCoin during the PoW   
stage. We believe that allowing the HashPoint pool to stay online during this phase is the best way to allow customers to earn PayCoins during the PoW phase.

    Am I reading this as Zens will still be able to mine Pay Coins by proxy via hash points during the POW stage (i.e. after the coin launches?)
    Also, how long is the POW stage and POS stage?

Sorry, this should not have been in there. We considered letting hashpool stay up, but we decided to end it at the end of the second round as originally stated

It's almost as if they're completely making shit up as they go along.

+101 ...LOL...

ZiG

[crashoveride54902]

Man are they just saying all this confusing shit on purpose? so it is so hard to follow whats going on nobody knows if their getting scammed or not? LMAO good stuff...gaw never lets us down in the entertainment part

[I_IZ_CEO]

The sad thing here is

People are borrowing for this
People are planning to retire at 16
People are using their college money
People are banging out their credit cards

When this is over some will be homeless, divorced, ruined credit, in debt, etc.

When gox was going down there were people in the IRC i was in, borrowing money to buy BTC from GOX for 100$ and I think it went down to about 97ish$, thinking they were going to hit the jackpot..

It didn't end well for them and I haven't seen them for a while, maybe some jumped a bridge or something.

[de_ixie]

A) I bought most of my Zenminer hashpower early August when all this started and since then I got paid every single day. Not a single day missing, not a single payout was lower than expected. I bought their product, they paid me - no emotions here, nothing to discuss, no one at GAW ever scammed me by a single penny

[...]

D) I followed  several public discussions on hashtalk.org where different people seriously challenged Josh Garza and his ideas. As long as people follow the basic rules of communication he is open for fruitful discussions. Calling hashtalk.org an overmoderated forum with no possibility to speak out openly is nonsense.

For whom it may concern: Here you can see how I challenge Josh in public on hashtalk.org, I got tons of upvotes, we started discussing, but found no consense... life goes on. Guess what - I was not censored or downvoted or anything for attacking him openly. Just a normal discussion amongst people who exchange ideas

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18215/zenpool-the-world-s-most-profitable-pool/21 (I am to dump to post that link, just scroll down to post 21)

Because of A) you're quite obviously in a position that nobody who invested in October or later can ever be in. So you need to step back and look at it from that point of view if you really want a full picture.

I appreciate what you're doing on HT. That doesn't change the fact that many users were banned for no obvious reason and many others are free to show disrespect and post off topic - the only two rules on HT, right? - without any consequences, depending entirely on "which side" they're on. That place is not healthy. Good for you that you found a way to survive it, however this should not be a prerequisite for a customer seeking answers or assistance.

Okay here I really disagree, we don't know how the people that bought Zens in October are going to do.   You just can't say yet that someone investing in October won't come out way ahead of someone that invested in Aug. at least with the Zens.   In August the Zens were $21.95 and by Oct they were selling around $12 to $13 dollars.   It the PayCoin is even only mildly successful the people that bought the cheaper Zens may actually come out ahead.    

Exactly - I do not own Zens - In case the ICO is a success people who invested in Ocotber or even early November are in a far better position than myself

[dyask]

There is also nothing wrong with disallowing bots and banning accounts that use bots when bots are not allowed.   

IMO there is something wrong with stealing customers money/assets because they broke an arbitrary rule.

So you find no fault with the people that where defrauding the system? If that is the case I question your ethics.

My opinion is that it was unethical for people to cash out on GAW's mistake but likely not illegal.

GAW's unauthorized charges were unethical and most likely illegal.

Hmmm ... any rule you disagree with is arbitrary?    I just don't get you, you are spending so much of your time on hating GAW and all you are doing is advertising GAW to noobs that see how unreasonable your posts are.   Maybe you are on the GAW payroll.   You just don't make any sense.