GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Nonsense? I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time. So you are going to tell me that is nonsense. How dare you? And i speak for many many others that were banned for merely questioning GAW's methods and procedures. So do not come in here talking garbage just because you got away with a few posts over there. If you honestly believe it's nonsense you are quite obviously delusional.

Look how hostile you were to a reasonable post.  No wonder you got banned.   You may not intend sound that way by that is how you sound, hostile.    

You're ignorant and you completely missed the point. If you think I was hostile you're very confused. "No wonder I was banned". What is it that you just can't read or you just can't comprehend what you read. I'll lay it out for you here again and let you mull it over.

I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time.

[dyask]

Nonsense? I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time. So you are going to tell me that is nonsense. How dare you? And i speak for many many others that were banned for merely questioning GAW's methods and procedures. So do not come in here talking garbage just because you got away with a few posts over there. If you honestly believe it's nonsense you are quite obviously delusional.

Look how hostile you were to a reasonable post.  No wonder you got banned.   You may not intend sound that way by that is how you sound, hostile.    

You're ignorant and you completely missed the point. If you think I was hostile you're very confused. "No wonder I was banned". What is it that you just can't read or you just can't comprehend what you read. I'll lay it out for you here again and let you mull it over.

I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time.

My point is if you posted the same way there as you do here, it is clear why you ended up getting banned.   By the way it isn't "rootdood" it is "rootdude", or maybe you are just being rude?   I can't tell.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Nonsense? I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time. So you are going to tell me that is nonsense. How dare you? And i speak for many many others that were banned for merely questioning GAW's methods and procedures. So do not come in here talking garbage just because you got away with a few posts over there. If you honestly believe it's nonsense you are quite obviously delusional.

Look how hostile you were to a reasonable post.  No wonder you got banned.   You may not intend sound that way by that is how you sound, hostile.    

You're ignorant and you completely missed the point. If you think I was hostile you're very confused. "No wonder I was banned". What is it that you just can't read or you just can't comprehend what you read. I'll lay it out for you here again and let you mull it over.

I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time.

EDIT: That wasn't hostile either. That was condescending which is exactly what you deserved.

[NeonTranceBadger]

Exactly this.  Look at when zenpool crashed the second time it was the day after they announced hashcoin.  That was the only way they could force people to mine hashcoin even though after the negotiations ZenPool was supposed to go back to normal or higher in payouts.  

What are you talking about? Nobody forced you to do anything!
I didn't care much about hashpoints, so when the payouts dropped I sold my 80% of my hashlets. I may go up again when it becomes profitable again.

A lot of people bought in to GAW when ZenPool was at about .0004 and if I have my timing right hashmarket was not up yet so a lot of them either bought Zens at $21.95 or $17.95.  During the time up to the announcement ZenPool fluctuate a lot but you could still ROI in maybe 6 months.  Then hashcoin is announced and zenpool tanks to where you would be dead before you would ROI and Zens price on the hashmarket were going down fast.  You had a choice to sell and take a massive loss or mine hashcoin and hope that you can sell them $20.  Most people don't want to lose money so their only choice was to mine hashcoin to have any hope of making ROI.

[suchmoon]

A) I bought most of my Zenminer hashpower early August

Because of A) you're quite obviously in a position that nobody who invested in October or later can ever be in. So you need to step back and look at it from that point of view if you really want a full picture.

I appreciate what you're doing on HT. That doesn't change the fact that many users were banned for no obvious reason and many others are free to show disrespect and post off topic - the only two rules on HT, right? - without any consequences, depending entirely on "which side" they're on. That place is not healthy. Good for you that you found a way to survive it, however this should not be a prerequisite for a customer seeking answers or assistance.

Okay here I really disagree, we don't know how the people that bought Zens in October are going to do.   You just can't say yet that someone investing in October won't come out way ahead of someone that invested in Aug. at least with the Zens.   In August the Zens were $21.95 and by Oct they were selling around $12 to $13 dollars.   It the PayCoin is even only mildly successful the people that bought the cheaper Zens may actually come out ahead.    

"Early August" is what I'm referring to. That's when the $10-20 per MH/s hardware deals were going on, later converted to Primes. Zens didn't show up until late August or early September. But anyone who bought early Primes or converted hardware can afford to be smug right now because of the $40+ price point and PayCoin is just gravy.

Most "ROI" stories I've seen so far rely on this Prime price increase, in fact if you bought a Prime at $16 in August you have not mined $16 yet, so any "profit" is based ENTIRELY on its speculative nature. I don't believe any Zen customers at any price point will get anywhere near that. (Edit: any PayCoin upside benefits Primes even more, so Zens are unlikely to get ahead).

[owlcatz]

[quick comedy break]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nigt1/gaw_miners_is_announcing_their_new_scam_paybase/

top comment:

[–]pelepac 10 points 2 hours ago
It's really irresponsible of GAW to be taking on so many new scams without finishing some of their old ones first.

 

[galdur]

Doggieman, one of my 100%  reliable counter-indicators is still whining here ?

Get the bloody genesis price down where I can buy in.

Best of luck, g

[galdur]

Doggieman, one of my 100%  reliable counter-indicators is still whining here ?

Get the bloody genesis price down where I can buy back in.

Best of luck, g

[galdur]

Sorry about that double post I get sort of excited

when I see those predictable brainless morons around.

[dyask]

A) I bought most of my Zenminer hashpower early August

Because of A) you're quite obviously in a position that nobody who invested in October or later can ever be in. So you need to step back and look at it from that point of view if you really want a full picture.

I appreciate what you're doing on HT. That doesn't change the fact that many users were banned for no obvious reason and many others are free to show disrespect and post off topic - the only two rules on HT, right? - without any consequences, depending entirely on "which side" they're on. That place is not healthy. Good for you that you found a way to survive it, however this should not be a prerequisite for a customer seeking answers or assistance.

Okay here I really disagree, we don't know how the people that bought Zens in October are going to do.   You just can't say yet that someone investing in October won't come out way ahead of someone that invested in Aug. at least with the Zens.   In August the Zens were $21.95 and by Oct they were selling around $12 to $13 dollars.   It the PayCoin is even only mildly successful the people that bought the cheaper Zens may actually come out ahead.    

"Early August" is what I'm referring to. That's when the $10-20 per MH/s hardware deals were going on, later converted to Primes. Zens didn't show up until late August or early September. But anyone who bought early Primes or converted hardware can afford to be smug right now because of the $40+ price point and PayCoin is just gravy.

Most "ROI" stories I've seen so far rely on this Prime price increase, in fact if you bought a Prime at $16 in August you have not mined $16 yet, so any "profit" is based ENTIRELY on its speculative nature. I don't believe any Zen customers at any price point will get anywhere near that. (Edit: any PayCoin upside benefits Primes even more, so Zens are unlikely to get ahead).

However there is an entirely new deal going on with the PayCoin, PayBase etc.   Personally I'm not a fan of it as it seems very US centric.   A debit card is worthless to me in Japan.   Also the US is so backwards with credit card security etc.   However, even if it is only partially successful there are going to be a lot of people at GAW that end up coming out of this with very good profits.   My point is the game isn't over yet. 

[Honeycutt22]

So pretty sure they have BTC issues again.

Lots of people had authy issues and couldn't withdraw for a few days. Now, try to withdraw my BTC and hasn't been touched in 24 hours.

I mean how long does it take to click approve??

I've never had so much trouble withdrawing money from anywhere. They send me an email saying this is an industry norm, but no where else have I ever had holds placed on my account like this. No where.

Edit - what Are they going to do when everyone wants to dump their pat coin?'

[dyask]

Nonsense? I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time. So you are going to tell me that is nonsense. How dare you? And i speak for many many others that were banned for merely questioning GAW's methods and procedures. So do not come in here talking garbage just because you got away with a few posts over there. If you honestly believe it's nonsense you are quite obviously delusional.

Look how hostile you were to a reasonable post.  No wonder you got banned.   You may not intend sound that way by that is how you sound, hostile.    

You're ignorant and you completely missed the point. If you think I was hostile you're very confused. "No wonder I was banned". What is it that you just can't read or you just can't comprehend what you read. I'll lay it out for you here again and let you mull it over.

I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time.

EDIT: That wasn't hostile either. That was condescending which is exactly what you deserved.

Let's be clear, you are the one that out the blue just attacks a rational post because you don't like their experience at GAW.   Just because you got yourself in trouble doesn't mean that someone else can't have a good experience.   I don't even have the that large of an investment at GAW anymore but I'm blown away by the hatred here towards GAW.   They are a business, get over it. 

[dyask]

So pretty sure they have BTC issues again.

Lots of people had authy issues and couldn't withdraw for a few days. Now, try to withdraw my BTC and hasn't been touched in 24 hours.

I mean how long does it take to click approve??

I've never had so much trouble withdrawing money from anywhere. They send me an email saying this is an industry norm, but no where else have I ever had holds placed on my account like this. No where.

Edit - what Are they going to do when everyone wants to dump their pat coin?'

For the record, the only problem I've had with withdraws is when the ZenCloud just won't process withdraws and you have to try again and again.   However, forcing people to use 2FA is a very bad move on their part.   clould.zenminer.com shows they don't know much about building a nice web site that works well for people around the world.   I expect there will be a lot more mishaps with PayBase or whatever we have to work through.     

[welchy8764]

Although a lot of you guys only honor facts, I still want to share some of my random experiences with GAW positive/ negative. I really feel we have to much black<->white thinking in this thread:

A) I bought most of my Zenminer hashpower early August when all this started and since then I got paid every single day. Not a single day missing, not a single payout was lower than expected. I bought their product, they paid me - no emotions here, nothing to discuss, no one at GAW ever scammed me by a single penny

B) I had several disputes/ tickets with GAW about technical problems, not working account fundings, not working withdrawals , Bug abusing etc.... Some of my issues got escalated to their top management. Sometimes we had tough discussions throwing legal threads around but in the end, we always found a fair and suitable solution for both parties. I stayed friendly but demanding in the heat, they stayed friendly and demanding and we could solve even the most muddy situations. GAW always acted very professional and generous on every single management tier.

C) GAW announced a lot of stuff/features in their business plans and not all of them came to reality. This is true e.g. Primes where never able to mine SHA, Primes were never the "most profitable miner" etc etc..., a lot of cool stuff got lost on the road. People bought their products and got dissapointed I can understand that - they really did some mistakes here...

.... BUT  ~70% of their announcements came to reality and this is more than most other business plans can offer. Look at "business plans" in big cooperates. Leading managers always build unrealisitc cases to secure funds for their ambitious projects. Its sad but this is how it works. Like it or not - the guy with the "realistic" business case will never be able to turn anything into reality

D) I followed  several public discussion on hashtalk.org where different people seriously challenged Josh Garza and his ideas. As long as people follow the basic rules of communication he is open for fruitful discussions. Calling hashtalk.org an overmoderated forum with no possibility to speak out openly is nonsense.

For whom it may concern: Here you can see how I challenge Josh in public on hashtalk.org, I got tons of upvotes, we started discussing, but found no consense... life goes on. Guess what - I was not censored or downvoted or anything for attacking him openly. Just a normal discussion amongst people who exchange ideas

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18215/zenpool-the-world-s-most-profitable-pool/21 (I am to dump to post that link, just scroll down to post 21)

E) I will not comment on whether GAW is mining or not. I just dont know it. There are no facts for/ against that

Hope that helps some individuals in assessing GAW

Nonsense? I was instantly banned and my post was instantly removed on HT when it was a repost of what rootdood wrote here about the Zenpool negotiations being final yet Josh was not going to reinstate higher payouts yet because he was waiting for a strategic time. So you are going to tell me that is nonsense. How dare you? And i speak for many many others that were banned for merely questioning GAW's methods and procedures. So do not come in here talking garbage just because you got away with a few posts over there. If you honestly believe it's nonsense you are quite obviously delusional.

I am sorry what happened to you and/ or maybe others. I can only speak from my experience. I never got banned or censored for questioning GAW on hashtalk.org

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

[wdl1908]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

[jimmothy]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

Completely legal.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

[welchy8764]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

I did not profit from this. I only pointed out that his bad decisions and company poor execution caused this whole problem. Two wrongs don't make a right. GAW basicly stole back the money they felt was taken from them. That's for a court to decide. In the mean time many others were impacted without cause. This whole mess can be blamed on 1 person.. Guess who?

[dyask]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

Completely legal.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

So you would also support the people running bots that quickly buy hashlets when anyone makes a pricing mistake.   That is also completely legal.    But it is also wrong.   I have many time posted that GAW not fixing that problem is wrong and even Josh has replied to my posts but I still haven't been banned.   Stealing though is wrong, no matter how it happens.  

I completely disagree with GAW here.   They should fix the mis-sales just like they fixed their problem when they sent out the wrong keys.  

[wdl1908]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

Completely legal.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

Well the link above talks about unordered merchandise it does not say anything about wrongly delivered merchandise. So for me that does not apply.

[welchy8764]

I was banned for trying to discuss the 25 prime mistake when Josh blamed it on the "exploiters" and took no blame what so ever for the whole debacle that followed. Which in my mind was unlawful. To prevent withdrawl and clawback funds without due process is stealing.

And getting something that you not pay for 25MH instead of 1MH and selling that without reporting the mistake is what?

Completely legal.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

So you would also support the people running bots that quickly buy hashlets when anyone makes a pricing mistake.   That is also completely legal.    But it is also wrong.   I have many time posted that GAW not fixing that problem is wrong and even Josh has replied to my posts but I still haven't been banned.   Stealing though is wrong, no matter how it happens.  

I completely disagree with GAW here.   They should fix the mis-sales just like they fixed their problem when they sent out the wrong keys.  

I think GAW has 1st dibs on anything put on the market place and purchase grossly under-priced haslets. There have been many complaints of people pricing to low by mistake and before they can remove(few seconds) someone purchased. That was even after the solution was put in place for the Bots. I hate to be cynical but that is the only answer that makes sense to me. why would they not correct the issue? Its been an issue since market opened.