GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[bitpop]

Gaw has gone full ponzi. They sold whatever hashing they have for cash. Selling you premined paycoin then good bye. Happens every time. He's already getting you used to little "delays" just like every hyip scam.

[raskul]

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

[burst1002]

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

you are 100% right buddy! if there is going to be a monopoly in crypto currencies then there is no point to adopt crypto currencies. just stick with our bank !!

[bitpop]

Paycoin paypal
Paybase Coinbase

Who else will they try to impersonate?

Really were at the point of saying using the word Pay is impersonation for a payment system?

(paybase and coinbase i feel you there)

Yeah when they put their logo next to it every time

[EQXhatter]

What is your opinion on mining contracts? Do they exist or not?

I am not sure what you think - the mining contracts between gaw and the people gaw rent them their power? Or the mining contracts as GAW and hashlet customer?
The second - defenitly there exist a contract between customer and GAW, the question is what is the object of that contract. GAW looks like they are selling you actual in the hashlet named and pool pointed mining power, but I think it is more a loan to GAW so they can buy minning hardware and they repay you in the numbers of your chosen pool. I highly doubt, that you buy real 1 MH Scrypt of mining power with hashlets. But I think they use the money to buy the minning hw, which they use to mine coins they find most profitable. I believe, that he difference between customers payout (payout-fees) and the brutto payout GAW mined is huge, so they are making shitload of coins.

If that is true, why aren't they showing us the hashpower? the entire point of bitcoin is that everything is recorded on a public ledger. If they are mining coins, there is a public record of it, and them showing it would end all of the speculation. Show us the freshly mined coins.

There have been lots of scams in bitcoin, all of them could have been avoided if people asked for proof of what was happening. No one should believe someone is mining without seeing the proof on the blockchain. If you don't believe GAW is mining why are you paying them to mine for you?

Joe said, he will show in next Q&A stream their datacentre. Dunno if that is enough proof. I actually take their announcements with reserve, they are using so much superlatives, that if it were true, then everyone, who invested in them will become millionare.

I dont want to advocate them, but if they will show the trace to their minning power I see all the multi users (who are in red numbers (read one satoshi payouts) being realy upset about seeing their money bought minning hw used to mine coins they don´t have profit from.

I wont ever invest an amount I am not willing to loose, I just want to discuss and try to find answer or more doubts so I can decide if to or not to escape before GAW falls apart.

Sorry for my english I am trying to make my statments clear as possible, but there might be some confusion in what I am trying to say.

[Phildo]

Pictures of hardware would help, but people can and will argue about it.

Forget the datacenter. the point is the blockchain. Show us on the blockchain. Show the freshly mined coin being created and going to a customer. You are giving them mine to mine coins for you, they should be able to show us the coin.

[raskul]

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

Now here's the thing they're not forcing a monopoly but pretty much guaranteeing them the first place use, say Paycoin is a hit, they will have competition come along to be payment processors and third party uses, their challenge will be that GAW has been a step ahead, it just really ends up on mattering if its a hit or not if there will be a true monopoly (which of course would be bad). If Paycoin is a hit you will have the big Bitcoin companies able to come in and quickly roll out a Paycoin solution that would try and challenge GAW but i don't think they would be able to overtake them for the Starting advantage gaw has.

but that argument just puts it straight back to my point, it's a mastercoin clone. any company can come along and invest lots of cash and do exactly the same for their own rewards program. what GAW are doing isn't rocket science, moreover, the sheer amount of investment that they are putting into this, is just foolhardy and the only way that they are going to recoup that investment, in my eyes, is at the cost of those who buy into it. Sure -  GAW are going to make money out of this. I just fail to see how the little guy will make a profit from it along-with. I am just one of a majority of people who have no interest in having paycoin in a paycoin wallet and for that reason, it is doomed to failure.

[mpmcsweeney]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/19951/logo-infringement

"So,

Is it just me or does the Paybase.com logo look a lot like Bitnami's logo...

I don't know how close it would have be to the logo to cause discord, but it's pretty similar and I know I would hate for anything to cause a wrinkle in the awesomeness that is PayCoin.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Really people.. Downvotes for free thought? This isn't what I signed up on these forums for..."

[galdur]

What is your opinion on mining contracts? Do they exist or not?

I am not sure what you think - the mining contracts between gaw and the people gaw rent them their power? Or the mining contracts as GAW and hashlet customer?
The second - defenitly there exist a contract between customer and GAW, the question is what is the object of that contract. GAW looks like they are selling you actual in the hashlet named and pool pointed mining power, but I think it is more a loan to GAW so they can buy minning hardware and they repay you in the numbers of your chosen pool. I highly doubt, that you buy real 1 MH Scrypt of mining power with hashlets. But I think they use the money to buy the minning hw, which they use to mine coins they find most profitable. I believe, that he difference between customers payout (payout-fees) and the brutto payout GAW mined is huge, so they are making shitload of coins.

If that is true, why aren't they showing us the hashpower? the entire point of bitcoin is that everything is recorded on a public ledger. If they are mining coins, there is a public record of it, and them showing it would end all of the speculation. Show us the freshly mined coins.

There have been lots of scams in bitcoin, all of them could have been avoided if people asked for proof of what was happening. No one should believe someone is mining without seeing the proof on the blockchain. If you don't believe GAW is mining why are you paying them to mine for you?

Joe said, he will show in next Q&A stream their datacentre. Dunno if that is enough proof. I actually take their announcements with reserve, they are using so much superlatives, that if it were true, then everyone, who invested in them will become millionare.

I dont want to advocate them, but if they will show the trace to their minning power I see all the multi users (who are in red numbers (read one satoshi payouts) being realy upset about seeing their money bought minning hw used to mine coins they don´t have profit from.

I wont ever invest an amount I am not willing to loose, I just want to discuss and try to find answer or more doubts so I can decide if to or not to escape before GAW falls apart.

Sorry for my english I am trying to make my statments clear as possible, but there might be some confusion in what I am trying to say.

Multi users bought hashlets based off multi payout, which has been crap for a while and with the standard .08$ maintenance fee and increasing difficulty of Scrypt it was obvious they wouldn't be viable now. Until they get new equipment and have a more efficient miner (or decide to lower it out of pitty) there multis will be worth crap, but why wouldn't they be? There are less hardware producers for scrypt and anyone who is producing seems to be mining on it (looking at the difficulty) I think scrypt is a bad road to invest in at all.

There are countless shitcoins and more coming every day.

Surely there must be lots that are very profitable to mine
and dump.

[EQXhatter]

What is your opinion on mining contracts? Do they exist or not?

I am not sure what you think - the mining contracts between gaw and the people gaw rent them their power? Or the mining contracts as GAW and hashlet customer?
The second - defenitly there exist a contract between customer and GAW, the question is what is the object of that contract. GAW looks like they are selling you actual in the hashlet named and pool pointed mining power, but I think it is more a loan to GAW so they can buy minning hardware and they repay you in the numbers of your chosen pool. I highly doubt, that you buy real 1 MH Scrypt of mining power with hashlets. But I think they use the money to buy the minning hw, which they use to mine coins they find most profitable. I believe, that he difference between customers payout (payout-fees) and the brutto payout GAW mined is huge, so they are making shitload of coins.

If that is true, why aren't they showing us the hashpower? the entire point of bitcoin is that everything is recorded on a public ledger. If they are mining coins, there is a public record of it, and them showing it would end all of the speculation. Show us the freshly mined coins.

There have been lots of scams in bitcoin, all of them could have been avoided if people asked for proof of what was happening. No one should believe someone is mining without seeing the proof on the blockchain. If you don't believe GAW is mining why are you paying them to mine for you?

Joe said, he will show in next Q&A stream their datacentre. Dunno if that is enough proof. I actually take their announcements with reserve, they are using so much superlatives, that if it were true, then everyone, who invested in them will become millionare.

I dont want to advocate them, but if they will show the trace to their minning power I see all the multi users (who are in red numbers (read one satoshi payouts) being realy upset about seeing their money bought minning hw used to mine coins they don´t have profit from.

I wont ever invest an amount I am not willing to loose, I just want to discuss and try to find answer or more doubts so I can decide if to or not to escape before GAW falls apart.

Sorry for my english I am trying to make my statments clear as possible, but there might be some confusion in what I am trying to say.

Multi users bought hashlets based off multi payout, which has been crap for a while and with the standard .08$ maintenance fee and increasing difficulty of Scrypt it was obvious they wouldn't be viable now. Until they get new equipment and have a more efficient miner (or decide to lower it out of pitty) there multis will be worth crap, but why wouldn't they be? There are less hardware producers for scrypt and anyone who is producing seems to be mining on it (looking at the difficulty) I think scrypt is a bad road to invest in at all.

There are countless shitcoins and more coming every day.

Surely there must be lots that are very profitable to mine
and dump.

This is true, but multipool and other multi sites aren't jumping on these and pumping and dumping with the group that does it.

But the haslets payout are just based on that pools, they are not actualy minng there. So there is this  - if the haslet become due to low payments obsolete for customers, then gaw can use that power for mining anything else, but the customer earns nothing, beacuse their on pool based payment is 1 satoshi, eventhough their power earns coins from being pointed elsewhere.

[galdur]

What is your opinion on mining contracts? Do they exist or not?

I am not sure what you think - the mining contracts between gaw and the people gaw rent them their power? Or the mining contracts as GAW and hashlet customer?
The second - defenitly there exist a contract between customer and GAW, the question is what is the object of that contract. GAW looks like they are selling you actual in the hashlet named and pool pointed mining power, but I think it is more a loan to GAW so they can buy minning hardware and they repay you in the numbers of your chosen pool. I highly doubt, that you buy real 1 MH Scrypt of mining power with hashlets. But I think they use the money to buy the minning hw, which they use to mine coins they find most profitable. I believe, that he difference between customers payout (payout-fees) and the brutto payout GAW mined is huge, so they are making shitload of coins.

If that is true, why aren't they showing us the hashpower? the entire point of bitcoin is that everything is recorded on a public ledger. If they are mining coins, there is a public record of it, and them showing it would end all of the speculation. Show us the freshly mined coins.

There have been lots of scams in bitcoin, all of them could have been avoided if people asked for proof of what was happening. No one should believe someone is mining without seeing the proof on the blockchain. If you don't believe GAW is mining why are you paying them to mine for you?

Joe said, he will show in next Q&A stream their datacentre. Dunno if that is enough proof. I actually take their announcements with reserve, they are using so much superlatives, that if it were true, then everyone, who invested in them will become millionare.

I dont want to advocate them, but if they will show the trace to their minning power I see all the multi users (who are in red numbers (read one satoshi payouts) being realy upset about seeing their money bought minning hw used to mine coins they don´t have profit from.

I wont ever invest an amount I am not willing to loose, I just want to discuss and try to find answer or more doubts so I can decide if to or not to escape before GAW falls apart.

Sorry for my english I am trying to make my statments clear as possible, but there might be some confusion in what I am trying to say.

Multi users bought hashlets based off multi payout, which has been crap for a while and with the standard .08$ maintenance fee and increasing difficulty of Scrypt it was obvious they wouldn't be viable now. Until they get new equipment and have a more efficient miner (or decide to lower it out of pitty) there multis will be worth crap, but why wouldn't they be? There are less hardware producers for scrypt and anyone who is producing seems to be mining on it (looking at the difficulty) I think scrypt is a bad road to invest in at all.

There are countless shitcoins and more coming every day.

Surely there must be lots that are very profitable to mine
and dump.

This is true, but multipool and other multi sites aren't jumping on these and pumping and dumping with the group that does it.

So this altcoin difficulty thing is just a ruse to fleece people.

[raskul]

I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not already mainstream?
BTC is already mainstream, it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting more.

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"

It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.

I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.

Now here's the thing they're not forcing a monopoly but pretty much guaranteeing them the first place use, say Paycoin is a hit, they will have competition come along to be payment processors and third party uses, their challenge will be that GAW has been a step ahead, it just really ends up on mattering if its a hit or not if there will be a true monopoly (which of course would be bad). If Paycoin is a hit you will have the big Bitcoin companies able to come in and quickly roll out a Paycoin solution that would try and challenge GAW but i don't think they would be able to overtake them for the Starting advantage gaw has.

but that argument just puts it straight back to my point, it's a mastercoin clone. any company can come along and invest lots of cash and do exactly the same for their own rewards program. what GAW are doing isn't rocket science, moreover, the sheer amount of investment that they are putting into this, is just foolhardy and the only way that they are going to recoup that investment, in my eyes, is at the cost of those who buy into it. Sure -  GAW are going to make money out of this. I just fail to see how the little guy will make a profit from it along-with. I am just one of a majority of people who have no interest in having paycoin in a paycoin wallet and for that reason, it is doomed to failure.

It all depends, it may end up costing them and their users but it may have an edge and the investment in advertising and getting new users may payoff and have them making a large profit and having the early people psyched, it's a gamble right now and no one has any true numbers on the odds.

well, it's good that we can disagree amicably and it's been a pleasure debating this with you. i will wish you the best of luck with it, and hope for the sake of good folks like yourself, that it does work out and you get a return on that investment. iI will say as an afterthought.. if only he had channeled that advertising revenue into Bitcoin or helped the evolution of Mastercoin and the already (half)established platforms which is carries, perhaps Josh-of-GAW may have been hailed as some sort of Bitcoin messiah, instead of being seen as trying to be a thorn in its side. With all that advertising, BTC could have gone up past $1000 in the blink of an eye. I suppose ; that's a discussion for another thread! best wishes mate.

[clanbake]

Pictures of hardware would help, but people can and will argue about it.

Forget the datacenter. the point is the blockchain. Show us on the blockchain. Show the freshly mined coin being created and going to a customer. You are giving them mine to mine coins for you, they should be able to show us the coin.

I asked Josh that personally about 2 months ago and his response was that if I need this proof then he doesn't want me to invest. What business in their right freaking minds would deny themselves money when all they have to do is show us that they do what they say they do. I would love to see what blocks they found in the past 3 months but that will NEVER happen.

[raskul]

*cough* Ponzi.

[computerchip]

*cough* Ponzi.

[raskul]

*cough* Ponzi.

yes, thanks for regurgitating that *cough* just when I thought it was down 

[molan]

I asked Josh that personally about 2 months ago and his response was that if I need this proof then he doesn't want me to invest. What business in their right freaking minds would deny themselves money when all they have to do is show us that they do what they say they do. I would love to see what blocks they found in the past 3 months but that will NEVER happen.

Imagine asking a chief his recipe after eating at his restaurant

"If you don't feel comfortable about what i put in your food i don't want you to come again eat at my restaurant"

I would be pretty worried what nasty things this weirdo chief had put in my food actually 

[clanbake]

I asked Josh that personally about 2 months ago and his response was that if I need this proof then he doesn't want me to invest. What business in their right freaking minds would deny themselves money when all they have to do is show us that they do what they say they do. I would love to see what blocks they found in the past 3 months but that will NEVER happen.

Imagine asking a chief his recipe after eating at his restaurant

"If you don't feel comfortable about what i put in your food i don't want you to come again eat at my restaurant"

I would be pretty worried what nasty things this weirdo chief had put in my food actually  

[raskul]

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[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9663488#msg9663488 date=1417020888]
[quote author=kingcolex link=topic=857670.msg9663380#msg9663380 date=1417020183]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9663316#msg9663316 date=1417019762]
[quote author=kingcolex link=topic=857670.msg9663240#msg9663240 date=1417019272]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9663128#msg9663128 date=1417018568]
[quote author=kingcolex link=topic=857670.msg9662914#msg9662914 date=1417017207]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9662621#msg9662621 date=1417015239]
[quote author=kingcolex link=topic=857670.msg9662512#msg9662512 date=1417014650]
I was talking about crypto as a whole, it will either die a fad or go mainstream 
[/quote]

and what part of me being able to buy a coffee in my local cafe - with Bitcoin - is not [i]already[/i] mainstream?
[u]BTC is already mainstream[/u], it is merely the greed which people hide behind that insists on them wanting [i]more[/i].

Josh insists that his shitcoin is going to put cryptocurrency into the mainstream.
I say, he trying to sell a clone of something which already has such successes.

from what I gather, the Paycoin protocol is a simple ripoff of the Mastercoin protocol.
there is nothing new here.

However, I did not know that it BFL was under criminal charges, this is news to me, and the same, with MtGox. I had thought they were under civil indictments.
Perhaps sometimes, when you live in a land which confuses criminality with civil complaint, it's easy to make that mistake.
"I can't breathe"
[/quote] It isn't mainstream, I wouldn't say in mainstream until at least we get into the paypal area of use. I understand your local coffee shop accepts it but Starbucks, dunkin dnuts , panera, lilly,  tully's, Tim Hortons, Caribou coffee, The coffee bean, and Costa Coffee don't. Do you see where I am going with this? Yes were past the unknown stage but nowhere near main stream use and it isn't for being greedy it so we can have a time in a couple years where i can pay my bills in bitcoin and shop in bitcoin directly. A dual fiat/crypto economy.
[/quote]

Fair enough, and forgive me if you felt i was insinuating that you were greedy in any way, this was not my intent. I do think that there is a long way to go before we see mass acceptance, but I'm not sure it will ever be in my lifetime. I am confident that it will happen, but there is - fortunately for those of us on the greyer side of the barber seat, something slightly encouraging that small retailers are happy to accept Bitcoin. It's enough for me, and it's a starting block to build on. Every day the technology behind Bitcoin in improving and there are easier ways to use it as a spendable currency. Understanding is another obstacle which needs to be overcome, and simply designing a clone, or piggy-backing on an already designed protocol to create a competitor to Bitcoin is in no way going to help cryptocurrencies in any way. Instead of trying to out-Bitcoin Bitcoin, GAW should have concentrated on building what is already available. The Mastercoin protocol is a great idea for things like loyalty coupons and company-specific rewards programs, but to try and start from scratch, something new which they think will outperform the 'old original' is very narrow minded, and will do more harm, than good.
Again, speaking personally, i'm quite content at where BTC is at the moment - the price is good - the availability of it is good - and my undetstanding of it (though not total) is also good enough for me. For that reason, i'm going to stick with what I have 1BTC = 1BTC but 1PAYCOIN = 1GAWPROFIT and not much else.
[/quote]I totally agree but I think GAW isn't just doing this as a short term profit maker, I think there idea is if they can create a coin that is tied to their company (still open source) they can have all the third parties run though them making them the profit (such as the debit card instant exchange fee, the fees for buying and selling on Paybase, and other utilities). They didn't make the coin to profit off it directly but to be a sort of monopoly of fees on the uses, they could have done this with bitcoin but there are too many other companies that would make it hard for them to compete and they wouldn't be able to make the profits they could with Paycoin. This is why i don't see Gaw as scamming people (this is my personal view) they're spending too much building and developing the coin to reap long term benefits and work over ton of cash, they aren't going to screw it up for 1000btc even.

I tell people to diversify and that's what I am doing because keeping all your eggs in one basket is too risky.
[/quote]

yeah, i'm not usually so against entrepreneurial endeavours, it's good to see new businesses evolve in the crypto-world, however... the one word that gives me the heebie-jeebies in your comment is 'monopoly'. For that single reason, which is evidently the purpose of GAW, it's not something that I would consider, and for that reason alone, is why I will continue to actively persuade people not to put money into this. It flies in the face of everything that cryptocurrencies stand for.
[/quote] Now here's the thing they're not forcing a monopoly but pretty much guaranteeing them the first place use, say Paycoin is a hit, they will have competition come along to be payment processors and third party uses, their challenge will be that GAW has been a step ahead, it just really ends up on mattering if its a hit or not if there will be a true monopoly (which of course would be bad). If Paycoin is a hit you will have the big Bitcoin companies able to come in and quickly roll out a Paycoin solution that would try and challenge GAW but i don't think they would be able to overtake them for the Starting advantage gaw has.
[/quote]

but that argument just puts it straight back to my point, it's a mastercoin clone. any company can come along and invest lots of cash and do exactly the same for their own rewards program. what GAW are doing isn't rocket science, moreover, the sheer amount of investment that they are putting into this, is just foolhardy and the only way that they are going to recoup that investment, in my eyes, is at the cost of those who buy into it. Sure -  GAW are going to make money out of this. I just fail to see how the little guy will make a profit from it along-with. I am just one of a majority of people who have no interest in having paycoin in a paycoin wallet and for that reason, it is doomed to failure.

[/quote] It all depends, it may end up costing them and their users but it may have an edge and the investment in advertising and getting new users may payoff and have them making a large profit and having the early people psyched, it's a gamble right now and no one has any true numbers on the odds.
[/quote]

well, it's good that we can disagree amicably and it's been a pleasure debating this with you. i will wish you the best of luck with it, and hope for the sake of good folks like yourself, that it does work out and you get a return on that investment. iI will say as an afterthought.. if only he had channeled that advertising revenue into Bitcoin or helped the evolution of Mastercoin and the already (half)established platforms which is carries, perhaps Josh-of-GAW may have been hailed as some sort of Bitcoin messiah, instead of being seen as trying to be a thorn in its side. With all that advertising, BTC could have gone up past $1000 in the blink of an eye. I suppose ; that's a discussion for another thread! best wishes mate.
[/quote] 

I definitely agree to a certain extent but due to high level manipulation Bitcoin seems to be undervalued and it may have stayed undervalued if that was the route taken but these thing happen with commodities, Silver is currently having the same issue. Thank you for the well wishes, I do not have much invested just my occasional bar money and thats about it, my physical miners bitcoin stays in my wallet.

the manipulation is evident, yes. I think we are all in anticipation of what is going to happen when those manipulators take their foot off the gas 
past week, i think has been an example of what might occur. interesting times, indeed!

[elrugrim]

Eh... depends on the resturant.   Some places they balance plates, and you don't get to really question or substitute things unless there is a medical (allergy) reason.

Some of those places are rather tasty to eat at.