My jaw is still on the floor.

[slaveforanunnak1]

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko's_triangle which at last got squared by Namecoin.

There is szabo again. we are going in circles lol. By design. Thanks Szabo.

[monsanto]

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko's_triangle which at last got squared by Namecoin.

Namecoin, which was created by pseudonymous double-spacer "Vincent Durham" aka "vinced" who appeared right around when Satoshi Nakazabo vanished.

[Billbags]

And what of do we make of David Chaum?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum

http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q00/1337.html

On 16 Jul 2000, at 22:50, Dan Fabulich wrote:
The most potent e-cash system was invented by David Chaum.  It died when he decided that his anonymous e-cash program would be the ticket to making him rich.

Hal Finney wrote in July 2000:
Yes, as mentioned the Chaum ecash experiment was not successful as a business. There is a new effort, www.ecashtechnologies.com, which purchased the patents and is trying again, this time in partnership with Deutsche Bank 24, a subsidiary of the big German bank.

In addition, ZeroKnowledge.com, a cypherpunk-founded privacy company which is selling a strong anonymity communication product called Freedom, recently licensed an alternate set of patents from Stefan Brands which could be used for anonymous payment.

Interesting from http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q00/1337.html

Read Dan Fabulich reply.

Then go here: https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg04919.html

It reads to me like Dan was obsess with the date that Digicash's patent expires: 2007(?).

Anybody know anything about Dan Fabulich except that he, too, types two spaces after a full stop?

It looks like
https://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg04919.html
is a post by Matthew Gaylor, who is quoting a post by Dan Fabulich on extropians-digest on 7 Jun 2001

He does sound like a man with a plan.

I had researched Dan Fabulich, not much more turned up. A lot of people were waiting on Chaums patients to expire. Most were trying to write around it. I'm looking for those notes right now. If I find them I'll send to you.

[BombaUcigasa]

waiting on Chaums patients to expire

[Billbags]

@ TippingPoint

I remember now. He did not have the time in 2007-2009. Google Dan Fabulich using each year. There 20+ pages of games and apps he designed and produced each year, plus a lot of other things. He also got away from the ecash and concentrated tremendously on gaming and in his spare time(not very often) he worked on browsers/apps.

Note: He just didn't have the time to write the Bitcoin client like Zooko did(even if he would have been using Szabo's white paper and Szabo's guidance)


I think we're back at BomaU's summary:

"Zooko wrote the Bitcoin client with Szabo's whitepaper and guidance. When their project got too close to the CIA they jumped ship and went low and let Gavin and a few other enthusiasts handle the assets."

"Now Szabo pretends it's raining (still uses the same language) and supports Ethereum (full touring blockchain using Satoshi Consensus invented term coined by him) while Zooko calls for Satoshi to send him a message while working a public job and fancying Bitcoin projects."

"...Or Satoshi is someone totally different that knows their work but they don't know him (which is weird for Szabo having a doppelganger that does better than you while putting everyone on your tail)."

[mistercoin]

Wow. This is actually a nice find. Hmm, I wonder if I use the forum search and see how many use "block chain" vs "blockchain". I wonder if it would be a big diference.

Either way, nice find

Happy holidays

Mistercoin

[darkmule]

The first implementation was a lot more solid than most initial releases done by a single person, so I seriously doubt there is a single Satoshi.  Considering the nature of secrets--"three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead"--I'd guess it was a small group, but there was probably some degree of peer review on the code before it was made public.

It could be that one person was the main driving impetus and also the "voice" of the group, or that they were two separate people.

I doubt there will ever be a single person you can point to and authoritatively say "this is Satoshi Nakamoto."  It is also legally wise to spread out liability like this, even though Bitcoin is not illegal and creating it certainly wasn't.  But if some future repressive regime suddenly decides it was, the "conspirators" could all just point their fingers at each other, or blame it all on any member who died in the interim.  "His name was Robert Paulson."

My wild-ass guesstimate is the core group couldn't have been fewer than three or much greater than five.  There would also be very few outsiders (or even none) who knew about it beforehand.  I could be wrong, though.  I think the group would be mostly old school cypherpunks of the code-writing sort, a group inhumanly good at keeping secrets.

[Pingu]

The first implementation was a lot more solid than most initial releases done by a single person, so I seriously doubt there is a single Satoshi.  Considering the nature of secrets--"three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead"--I'd guess it was a small group, but there was probably some degree of peer review on the code before it was made public.

If satsohi was a group then it would be even harder to keep the secret and someone would have come out by now. Besides, one of that group will have likely wanted their slice of the pie by now, a pie that has gone untouched so far. Somebody will get hungry eventually if that was the case  .

[TippingPoint]

Time to ask some basic Nick Szabo questions.

Was "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo a member of the Extropians who met in Cupertino?
    Subject: Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
    From: plaz@netcom.com (Geoff Dale)
    Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 13:40:48 -0800
    Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker
When: Saturday, March 12, 1994, 7.p.m (after the Cypherpunks meeting, until
an indeterminate time on the following day)
Where: 21090 Grenola Drive, Cupertino CA
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1994/02/msg01429.html

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo write How to Protect Your Electronic Privacy, Portland 1993?
https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/?f=privacy_szabo.paper.txt

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the former mayor of Cupertino?

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the one born in 1930, graduate of UC Berkeley, resident of Silicon Valley (Cupertino), employed at Lockheed, Link-Singer, and KLA?  Wife named Marcia?
http://www.faireconomy.org/files/pdf/notalonereportfinal.pdf

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the holder of these patents?
http://www.patentbuddy.com/Inventor/Szabo-Nicholas/7231849

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo know Hal Finney since 1993?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo this 84 year old guy in Cupertino?
http://radaris.com/~Nicholas-Szabo/223526343

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the son "Andrew Nicholas Szabo" of the old guy in Cupertino, now living in Madison, WI?
http://radaris.com/~Andrew-Szabo/178052517

Where are the photos of "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?

Who has been in the same room with "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?
Romana Machado? - Geoff Dale? - David Gordon?  - Russell Whitaker?

Why didn't Satoshi cite Nick Szabo's bit gold in his whitepaper?
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

In Jan 2 1993, when Nick Szabo wrote "In my limited experience creating Internet pseudonyms, I’ve been quite distracted by the continual need to avoid leaving pointers to my True Name lying around — excess mail to/from my True Name, shared files, common peculiarities (eg misspellings in written text), traceable logins, etc." what pseudonyms had he already used?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

What was the result of Nick Szabo writing in 2008 "... would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?" (seven months before the release of Bitcoin)

Who was the "eddie" who first used the term "bit coin" on Szabo's blog?

What did Nick Szabo mean by the statement, [These comments edit and add to comments of mine under previous blog post(s)]?  Was the "eddie" comment originally made somewhere else?

How many Nick Szabos could live in Cupertino, and how many would it take to screw in a lightbulb?

[monsanto]

Time to ask some basic Nick Szabo questions.

Who has been in the same room with "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?

I can only think of one person that claims to have met him in person: Vitalik from Ethereum.  Any others?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2jk637/gav_i_have_a_question_nick_szabo/

"I spoke with him a couple of times, including in person."

[BombaUcigasa]

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 27, 2008 (looks like the year is false, you can see by the URL and comments below)
Bit gold

Here are the main steps of the bit gold system that I envision:

(1) A public string of bits, the "challenge string," is created (see step 5).

(2) Alice on her computer generates the proof of work string from the challenge bits using a benchmark function.

(3) The proof of work is securely timestamped. This should work in a distributed fashion, with several different timestamp services so that no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on.

(4) Alice adds the challenge string and the timestamped proof of work string to a distributed property title registryfor bit gold. Here, too, no single server is substantially relied on to properly operate the registry.

(5) The last-created string of bit gold provides the challenge bits for the next-created string.

(6) To verify that Alice is the owner of a particular string of bit gold, Bob checks the unforgeable chain of title in the bit gold title registry.

(7) To assay the value of a string of bit gold, Bob checks and verifies the challenge bits, the proof of work string, and the timestamp.


Transcription to Bitcoin:
(1) A public hash target, the "challenge string," is created (see step 5).

(2) Alice on her computer generates the proof of work string from the challenge bits using a benchmark [double SHA-256] function.

(3) The proof of work is securely timestamped. This should work in a distributed fashion, with several different timestamp services so that no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on written on the blockchain in a distributed fashion with multiple copies providing a timestamp service where no particular timestamp service need be substantially relied on.

(4) Alice adds the hash target and the timestamped proof of work string to a distributed blockchain. Here, too, no single server is substantially relied on to properly operate the registry.

(5) The last-created string of bitcoin provides the challenge bits [header] for the next-created string.

(6) To verify that Alice is the owner of a particular bitcoin block coinbase, Bob checks the unforgeable chain of transactions in the bitcoin blockchain [parsing back all transactions].

(7) To assay the value of a transaction output, Bob checks and verifies the hash target, the proof of work string, and the timestamp.


First comment was made on Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:16:14 GMT
Kay Bell said...
Nick,
This isn't really a comment on this post, but since I haven't found a way to e-mail you, I thought I would use this way to let you know that I referenced one of your papers in a recent entry on my tax blog, Don't Mess With Taxes. It's in the entry about property taxes.
Best,
Kay Bell

Second comment was made on Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:44:51 GMT
Nick Szabo said...
Thanks! That's a good article you have about property taxes, and it's fascinating to see that narrow houses made it to Virginia.. Here's my cited article on value measurement and taxes.

He also explains that with timestamping it is impossible for ASIC producers to destroy the blockchain and based on the technology and computing power, what the generation cost was (nobody really cares about that in the past, just in the present or future). He also puts the burden of premine verification on the exchanges, which many have failed to do their job in this area for many altcoins. We also don't value coins differently, they have the same aggregated price, something he did not forsee.

Also a commenter asks why would anyone pay for wasted computer cycles, it is still difficult to explain this after 5 years to new people.

[TippingPoint]

Yes.  

The Kay Bell post on her web site in which she references a Nick Szabo academic paper is dated Tuesday, December 27, 2005
Our house is a very, very, very taxed house
http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2005/12/our_house_is_a_.html

yet the Nick Szabo blog post on Bit Gold which contains a comment from Kay Bell is now dated Saturday, December 27, 2008

which indicates that something on the Szabo blog about Bit Gold was edited.

Attempting to determine what was changed on the Szabo Bit Gold blog using
https://web.archive.org/web/20140503151344/http://unenumerated.blogspot.fr/2005/12/bit-gold.html
only shows an archive as old as May 3, 2014.  The internet archive has been archiving web pages since 1996.

Coincidentally, Internet Archive accepts Bitcoin donations.

[TippingPoint]

Time to ask some basic Nick Szabo questions.

Who has been in the same room with "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?

I can only think of one person that claims to have met him in person: Vitalik from Ethereum.  Any others?

http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2jk637/gav_i_have_a_question_nick_szabo/

"I spoke with him a couple of times, including in person."

I think the evidence is stronger that Romana Machado, Geoff Dale, David Gordon, and Russell Whitaker have met Nick Szabo in person.

It is worth mentioning that Romana Machado wrote the steganography program Stego, a steganography tool that enables you to embed data in Macintosh PICT format files, without changing the appearance or size of the PICT file. Thus, Stego can be used as an "envelope" to hide a previously encrypted data file in a PICT file, making it much less likely to be detected.

[Gleb Gamow]

Time to ask some basic Nick Szabo questions.

Was "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo a member of the Extropians who met in Cupertino?
    Subject: Party with the Nextropians! at Nexus-Lite!
    From: plaz@netcom.com (Geoff Dale)
    Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 13:40:48 -0800
    Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com

         MEET THE NEXTROPIANS: WE ARE HERE AND NOW AMONG YOU
__________________________________________________________________________
Romana Machado - Geoff Dale - David Gordon - Nick Szabo - Russell Whitaker
When: Saturday, March 12, 1994, 7.p.m (after the Cypherpunks meeting, until
an indeterminate time on the following day)
Where: 21090 Grenola Drive, Cupertino CA
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1994/02/msg01429.html

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo write How to Protect Your Electronic Privacy, Portland 1993?
https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/?f=privacy_szabo.paper.txt

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the former mayor of Cupertino?

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the one born in 1930, graduate of UC Berkeley, resident of Silicon Valley (Cupertino), employed at Lockheed, Link-Singer, and KLA?  Wife named Marcia?
http://www.faireconomy.org/files/pdf/notalonereportfinal.pdf

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the holder of these patents?
http://www.patentbuddy.com/Inventor/Szabo-Nicholas/7231849

Did "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo know Hal Finney since 1993?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo this 84 year old guy in Cupertino?
http://radaris.com/~Nicholas-Szabo/223526343

Is "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo the son "Andrew Nicholas Szabo" of the old guy in Cupertino, now living in Madison, WI?
http://radaris.com/~Andrew-Szabo/178052517

Where are the photos of "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?

Who has been in the same room with "our" (cryptography) Nick Szabo?
Romana Machado? - Geoff Dale? - David Gordon?  - Russell Whitaker?

Why didn't Satoshi cite Nick Szabo's bit gold in his whitepaper?
http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html

In Jan 2 1993, when Nick Szabo wrote "In my limited experience creating Internet pseudonyms, I’ve been quite distracted by the continual need to avoid leaving pointers to my True Name lying around — excess mail to/from my True Name, shared files, common peculiarities (eg misspellings in written text), traceable logins, etc." what pseudonyms had he already used?
http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1993/10/msg00759.html

What was the result of Nick Szabo writing in 2008 "... would greatly benefit from a demonstration, an experimental market (with e.g. a trusted third party substituted for the complex security that would be needed for a real system). Anybody want to help me code one up?" (seven months before the release of Bitcoin)

Who was the "eddie" who first used the term "bit coin" on Szabo's blog?

What did Nick Szabo mean by the statement, [These comments edit and add to comments of mine under previous blog post(s)]?  Was the "eddie" comment originally made somewhere else?

How many Nick Szabos could live in Cupertino, and how many would it take to screw in a lightbulb?

http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/dsp.cgi?msg=4472

X-Message-Number: 4472
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:40:31 -0800
From: carols@shell.portal.com (Carol Shaw)
Subject: Alcor North CA Cryonics Mtg. Sunday June 11

The next Alcor Northern California cryonics meeting will be held on Sunday,
June 11, 1995. All members and guests are welcome to attend.

The schedule is:

4:00 PM          Business meeting chaired by Russell Whitaker
around 6:00 PM   Potluck supper and socializing

Location:        Russell Whitaker's home, an Extropian Nexus
                 21090 Grenola Drive
                 Cupertino, California

Telephone:       408-388-7261

Directions:      Take Highway 85 to the Stevens Creek Blvd. exit (just
south of Highway 280). Go east on Stevens Creek. Turn left (north) on
Stelling. Take the third left on Hazelbrook. Take the first right on Flora
Vista. Take the second left on Grenola Drive.

Alcor Northern California meetings are held on the second Sunday of each month.

Carol Shaw
carols@shell.portal.com
http://www.portal.com/~carols/carolshomepage.html


Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4472

"To da moon!"

Don't make me dig up early references to Cryonics by Hal.

[cinnamon_carter]

guys, did you ever think the right thing to do is just nod, wink and smile to yourself ?

there are many other 'facts' to find for those who look still the message is what is important

more so than exactly who the messanger is......

consider if you were involved  with helping form these concepts for others and wanted a little privacy

[TippingPoint]

**** update *****

The Internet Archive in Alexandria Egypt archived the Nick Szabo Bit Gold blog page on Nov 9, 2007
http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/*/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html



That archive is now described as "Temporarily Unavailable"

[TippingPoint]

guys, did you ever think the right thing to do is just nod, wink and smile to yourself ?

yes

[Gleb Gamow]

Yes.  

The Kay Bell post on her web site in which she references a Nick Szabo academic paper is dated Tuesday, December 27, 2005
Our house is a very, very, very taxed house
http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2005/12/our_house_is_a_.html

yet the Nick Szabo blog post on Bit Gold which contains a comment from Kay Bell is now dated Saturday, December 27, 2008

which indicates that something on the Szabo blog about Bit Gold was edited.

Attempting to determine what was changed on the Szabo Bit Gold blog using
https://web.archive.org/web/20140503151344/http://unenumerated.blogspot.fr/2005/12/bit-gold.html
only shows an archive as old as May 3, 2014.  The internet archive has been archiving web pages since 1996.

Coincidentally, Internet Archive accepts Bitcoin donations.

Kay Bell tweets about Bitoin: https://twitter.com/taxtweet

I wonder if she's related to a certain one Gavin Bell who attended Princeton.

I stumbled upon Kay's article prior to being met with the post I quoted above: http://web.archive.org/web/20060225144059/http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2005/12/our_house_is_a_.html

Check out this photo of a Fredericksburg, Va., home entitled “Narrow houses paid low taxes.” (Just be sure to click the “back” button to return to Don’t Mess With Taxes!) Nick Szabo, who blogs at Unenumerated on, among other things, law and history, notes in an academic paper that historically taxes were levied on the prices of commodities sold or on various ad hoc measures of wealth such as a home’s frontage:

"This measurement game resulted in the very tall and deep but narrow houses that can still be found in some European cities such as Amsterdam. The stairs are so narrow that even normal furniture has to be hauled up to the upper story and then through a window with a small crane, itself a common feature on these houses."

http://web.archive.org/web/20070109083222/http://www.blogger.com/profile/14241889

Nick Szabo

About Me
"A premier thinker about history, law and economics, and the lessons they have for security." -- Adam Shostack, Emergent Chaos

"Reading material that is eclectic, challenging and endlessly fascinating." -- Sean McGrath, Propylon

"The Szabo tentacle is one of the most persistent of all." -- L. Detweiler

Notice: Legal issues are often discussed on this blog, but nothing on this blog is legal advice. Citations usually take the form of a link to the credited work.

Nicholas Szabo holds a Juris Doctor degree (law, that is) from The George Washington University and a Bachelor's degree in computer science from the University of Washington. He has substantial experience in the areas of Internet security, e-commerce, and software engineering, and is widely read in history, economics, and science.

[Gleb Gamow]

**** update *****

The Internet Archive in Alexandria Egypt archived the Nick Szabo Bit Gold blog page on Nov 9, 2007
http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/*/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html



That archive is now described as "Temporarily Unavailable"

Here's the correct link timestamped correctly: http://web.archive.org/web/20060329122942/http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2005/12/bit-gold.html#links

[Gleb Gamow]

Jody Drake raises chickens.

Nick Szabo's brother raises rabbits.

Want to know who Nick's brother is? It'll cost you a quarter - per clue!   (Always thinkin' on how to make bank, just like Bryan Micon)

First clue is free. He resides in a Midwest state where many famous astronauts call home.