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[thelonecrouton]

But again. You are taking the miners out of the equation. Sorry limiting us.

Free electricity or not (and I am not free).

Giving you the chance to acquire BCR more cheaply and easily is limiting you how? If you like you can send me the extra money you would have spent on mining it.

[bitcreditscc]

JMHO

You are killing the coin by keep decreasing the amount to block finders.

18.75 is way too low considering the amount going everywhere else. For me you are no incentive to continue mining as I see a majority of the block going to non miners.

This coin is slowly becoming a way for those who have more to keep getting a bigger part of the pie.

And please don't say if I want a BN I should invest BTC to get one. There are some of us that still like to mine and build up what we earn but unfortunately it looks to be going the other way now.

Eh? The block reward may decrease per block but there will be more frequent blocks, plus the current 5 + 5 BCR each block will go, so bidders will actually get more compared to what miners get now.

And since bidding is likely to work out cheaper than mining (for those who don't get free electricity) anyone who wants to can acquire more, more cheaply, more easily. What's being discussed will improve distribution accessibility, not limit it.

It's PoW that's limiting and exclusionary to the 99.9999999999% of the world's population that can't afford the hardware and the running costs of PoW, and don't have and never will have the know how anyway.

But again. You are taking the miners out of the equation. Sorry limiting us.

Free electricity or not (and I am not free).

I don't understand why you would insist on spending money in a futile mining attempt that will get you less reward than what we have proposed.  Mining PoW competitively is wasteful because all the money you are pouring into a power company and hardware could have been used to develop BCR further and do stuff like get us on more exchanges, marketing etc.... everything we do is to develop the most robust and effecient system possible, cutting away anything that disadvantages the users.

You as a miner are running a loss making operation trying to compete with other miners to get rewarded a small amount of BCR. You then in turn immediately drop it on the exchange because you will be trying to cover your costs. The price goes lower and you operation becomes even less profitable, you are stuck in a loop that is slowly shrinking and soon if we don't act it becomes a noose around the entire projects' neck.

We are making it easier to secure the network while removing the concept of competitive mining and rewards in favor of a project supportive approach.

One could argue that sometimes it is harder to get your hands on BTC, but that is exactly why we will allow bidding in as many currencies as we can. This means that we have 1) removed a resource/value leakage problem and 2) we now siphon value off other currencies in favor of our own.

[bitcreditscc]

While looking into the coding issues I realized that we need to make small adjustments, instead of paying out at a set time, we will have to use a "block day". A "block day" is the number of blocks that are produced on a daily basis (expected), so if we want two payouts a day then we would have a block paying out every half "block day".

On average we get anywhere between 680 and 920 blocks. I would say that 800 blocks is a block day , unless you guys don't like it.

So if we have payouts every 400 blocks the code looks like

Code:

if (nHeight> 150000){ 
		nSubsidy = 18* COIN; //we still need to discuss how much a BN gets for mining a block
		if (nheight%400==0)
                nSubsidy = 32* COIN; //see above comment
		
		}

The current payout structure is as follows

10 BCR -- Bank reserve
18.75 -- BN subsidy
with the rest going to miners/blockfinder.

So miners are actually getting 21.25 BCR per block. Under my proposed system  :-

BN that mines a block gets 12 BCR
BN subsidy -- 6 BCR

Then on payout blocks

BN that mines a block gets 12 BCR
BN subsidy -- 6 BCR
Bidders divide 25600 BCR

The Bank and reserve are obsolete ideas and the bidders get the lions' share of a day's emissions. the average total has been 40K a day and so it shall be until reward halving.


All these numbers are free for us to discuss and come to consensus.

[thelonecrouton]

How about BN that mines the block gets the same reward as the rest?

[antonio8]

JMHO

You are killing the coin by keep decreasing the amount to block finders.

18.75 is way too low considering the amount going everywhere else. For me you are no incentive to continue mining as I see a majority of the block going to non miners.

This coin is slowly becoming a way for those who have more to keep getting a bigger part of the pie.

And please don't say if I want a BN I should invest BTC to get one. There are some of us that still like to mine and build up what we earn but unfortunately it looks to be going the other way now.

Eh? The block reward may decrease per block but there will be more frequent blocks, plus the current 5 + 5 BCR each block will go, so bidders will actually get more compared to what miners get now.

And since bidding is likely to work out cheaper than mining (for those who don't get free electricity) anyone who wants to can acquire more, more cheaply, more easily. What's being discussed will improve distribution accessibility, not limit it.

It's PoW that's limiting and exclusionary to the 99.9999999999% of the world's population that can't afford the hardware and the running costs of PoW, and don't have and never will have the know how anyway.

But again. You are taking the miners out of the equation. Sorry limiting us.

Free electricity or not (and I am not free).

I don't understand why you would insist on spending money in a futile mining attempt that will get you less reward than what we have proposed.  Mining PoW competitively is wasteful because all the money you are pouring into a power company and hardware could have been used to develop BCR further and do stuff like get us on more exchanges, marketing etc.... everything we do is to develop the most robust and effecient system possible, cutting away anything that disadvantages the users.

You as a miner are running a loss making operation trying to compete with other miners to get rewarded a small amount of BCR. You then in turn immediately drop it on the exchange because you will be trying to cover your costs. The price goes lower and you operation becomes even less profitable, you are stuck in a loop that is slowly shrinking and soon if we don't act it becomes a noose around the entire projects' neck.

We are making it easier to secure the network while removing the concept of competitive mining and rewards in favor of a project supportive approach.

One could argue that sometimes it is harder to get your hands on BTC, but that is exactly why we will allow bidding in as many currencies as we can. This means that we have 1) removed a resource/value leakage problem and 2) we now siphon value off other currencies in favor of our own.

Again. Regardless of what I am paying for electricity this is what I like to do call it a hobby (my last hobby cost me 3 times as much per month as mining and I am not mining at a loss).

You are taking what some people are/or have been doing and lumping everyone into one group. As for your mining and selling to cover cost I have been mining since late Dec of 2014 and have not sold one coin but looking as to the direction this is going it is not worth the time or effort to mine any more.

[thelonecrouton]

Again. Regardless of what I am paying for electricity this is what I like to do call it a hobby (my last hobby cost me 3 times as much per month as mining and I am not mining at a loss).

You are taking what some people are/or have been doing and lumping everyone into one group. As for your mining and selling to cover cost I have been mining since late Dec of 2014 and have not sold one coin but looking as to the direction this is going it is not worth the time or effort to mine any more.

From the point of view of BCR's blockchain security, if a better and more efficient mechanism can be employed, it should be.

From your point of view, you can acquire as much BCR as you did before while mining something else too if that's what you like. You say that you are not mining at a loss, but if you aren't selling any of what you mine then you certainly are not making any profit either. Mine whatever PoW currency is most profitable, and use some of those profits to buy more BCR? This is a win for you, surely?

It's a pretty wild shift from the crypto 'norm' but I think that PoW norm is fundamentally flawed, and in the long term shifting tx validation to the BNs and adopting a much simpler and easier method for anyone (that other 99.9999999% of plane Earth that will never be able to mess with all the technical voodoo of mining) to acquire BCR and thus access to future platform services, while directly helping to fund development, will be of great benefit to BCR. That future platform utility is what will bring real increased value to your current holdings.

This is a Giant Step for BCRkind in a whole lot of ways. I hope you can come to see that.  

[bitcreditscc]

JMHO

You are killing the coin by keep decreasing the amount to block finders.

18.75 is way too low considering the amount going everywhere else. For me you are no incentive to continue mining as I see a majority of the block going to non miners.

This coin is slowly becoming a way for those who have more to keep getting a bigger part of the pie.

And please don't say if I want a BN I should invest BTC to get one. There are some of us that still like to mine and build up what we earn but unfortunately it looks to be going the other way now.

Eh? The block reward may decrease per block but there will be more frequent blocks, plus the current 5 + 5 BCR each block will go, so bidders will actually get more compared to what miners get now.

And since bidding is likely to work out cheaper than mining (for those who don't get free electricity) anyone who wants to can acquire more, more cheaply, more easily. What's being discussed will improve distribution accessibility, not limit it.

It's PoW that's limiting and exclusionary to the 99.9999999999% of the world's population that can't afford the hardware and the running costs of PoW, and don't have and never will have the know how anyway.

But again. You are taking the miners out of the equation. Sorry limiting us.

Free electricity or not (and I am not free).

I don't understand why you would insist on spending money in a futile mining attempt that will get you less reward than what we have proposed.  Mining PoW competitively is wasteful because all the money you are pouring into a power company and hardware could have been used to develop BCR further and do stuff like get us on more exchanges, marketing etc.... everything we do is to develop the most robust and effecient system possible, cutting away anything that disadvantages the users.

You as a miner are running a loss making operation trying to compete with other miners to get rewarded a small amount of BCR. You then in turn immediately drop it on the exchange because you will be trying to cover your costs. The price goes lower and you operation becomes even less profitable, you are stuck in a loop that is slowly shrinking and soon if we don't act it becomes a noose around the entire projects' neck.

We are making it easier to secure the network while removing the concept of competitive mining and rewards in favor of a project supportive approach.

One could argue that sometimes it is harder to get your hands on BTC, but that is exactly why we will allow bidding in as many currencies as we can. This means that we have 1) removed a resource/value leakage problem and 2) we now siphon value off other currencies in favor of our own.

Again. Regardless of what I am paying for electricity this is what I like to do call it a hobby (my last hobby cost me 3 times as much per month as mining and I am not mining at a loss).

You are taking what some people are/or have been doing and lumping everyone into one group. As for your mining and selling to cover cost I have been mining since late Dec of 2014 and have not sold one coin but looking as to the direction this is going it is not worth the time or effort to mine any more.

Ok, please read carefully. I didn't block you from mining, simply for you to mine, you need to have a BN. And while you are mining, i will limit the number of consecutive blocks you can mine to dissolve the competition factor. I am also going to to lower the Bn entry level and the normal block reward so that the incentive for BNs is in balance with the incentive for bidding.

I want to get you to focus the resources you are using as a "hobby" to actually help the ecosystem. Would it not be nice if your hobby, would grow and mature into a great project and become something millions of people in the world want to join?

[bitcreditscc]

How about BN that mines the block gets the same reward as the rest?

Ok so you are saying if  BN subsidy is 6 BCR , then solving a block should earn 6 BN as well. Meaning that the normal tx blocks have 12 BCR that is split between the mining BN and winning BN?

I like it, though i'm not sure BN owners will. Maybe we can bump it up to 9 BCR?

[thelonecrouton]

How about BN that mines the block gets the same reward as the rest?

Ok so you are saying if  BN subsidy is 6 BCR , then solving a block should earn 6 BN as well. Meaning that the normal tx blocks have 12 BCR that is split between the mining BN and winning BN?

I like it, though i'm not sure BN owners will. Maybe we can bump it up to 9 BCR?

I was thinking purely in terms of avoiding a BN hashpower arms race, if all earn the same regardless of whichever one happens to solve the block then there's no incentive to throw pointless processor cycles at it... I'm not overly concerned about the exact amount/split. As long as BNs don't take a paycut from current levels of course. 

The limiting consecutively mined blocks approach also sounds great to limit damage in the event of BN subversion.

[bitcreditscc]

How about BN that mines the block gets the same reward as the rest?

Ok so you are saying if  BN subsidy is 6 BCR , then solving a block should earn 6 BN as well. Meaning that the normal tx blocks have 12 BCR that is split between the mining BN and winning BN?

I like it, though i'm not sure BN owners will. Maybe we can bump it up to 9 BCR?

I was thinking purely in terms of avoiding a BN hashpower arms race, if all earn the same regardless of whichever one happens to solve the block then there's no incentive to throw pointless processor cycles at it... I'm not overly concerned about the exact amount/split. As long as BNs don't take a paycut from current levels of course. 

The limiting consecutively mined blocks approach also sounds great to limit damage in the event of BN subversion.

Ok BNs are getting 18.75, i'd like to remove the dust and just make it 18. 18 BCR would be good enough to encourage BN mining and also encourage others to get a BN.

So in light of this, i'll have to throw my support behind the 50K collateral idea. If you invest 50K BCR in a BN you open up a window of revenue through mining non competitively.

@ 50K we may see influx of new interest in having a BN

[lockepi]

so are bn requirement going to be reduced to 50k

[hack_]

so are bn requirement going to be reduced to 50k

Yes, definitely going down to 50K.

[ancientcoins]

how many coins in circulation

[hack_]

how many coins in circulation

Actual circulation at best is 4 000 000.

 

[hack_]

Can we make the update phased? Already you have a lot of changes you were bringing bitcreditscc, and with the stuff we now have that is a lot to just change in one update. Why not pick items and either they get phased in at different times by the software itself or we actually update code maybe twice to get everything working?

[starblocks]

My first bank node it now active

Noticed a lot of the previous page or two discussions - not much to add from me really but I did raise POS (Nexus is working on a so called version 3.0 = mining channel + POS channel) with the Dev a while back in PM's or something

Looking forward to the updates when they come through

[dragos_bdi]

Ok BNs are getting 18.75, i'd like to remove the dust and just make it 18. 18 BCR would be good enough to encourage BN mining and also encourage others to get a BN.

So in light of this, i'll have to throw my support behind the 50K collateral idea. If you invest 50K BCR in a BN you open up a window of revenue through mining non competitively.

@ 50K we may see influx of new interest in having a BN

How about those 21 locked transactions @250k BCR ?
Are going to be unlocked ? If yes, what if someone decide not having anymore BN's ... and sell those 250k ?

[hack_]

Ok BNs are getting 18.75, i'd like to remove the dust and just make it 18. 18 BCR would be good enough to encourage BN mining and also encourage others to get a BN.

So in light of this, i'll have to throw my support behind the 50K collateral idea. If you invest 50K BCR in a BN you open up a window of revenue through mining non competitively.

@ 50K we may see influx of new interest in having a BN

How about those 21 locked transactions @250k BCR ?
Are going to be unlocked ? If yes, what if someone decide not having anymore BN's ... and sell those 250k ?

I think it's fine if someone wants to get out. the influx of cheap coins would actually make it easier to get more people aboard. I doubt though that the BN owners would do this, they have been enjoying a steady stream of income, they would not want to lose it.

lol, if they decide to sell, we'll be waiting with buy orders

[dragos_bdi]

Ok BNs are getting 18.75, i'd like to remove the dust and just make it 18. 18 BCR would be good enough to encourage BN mining and also encourage others to get a BN.

So in light of this, i'll have to throw my support behind the 50K collateral idea. If you invest 50K BCR in a BN you open up a window of revenue through mining non competitively.

@ 50K we may see influx of new interest in having a BN

How about those 21 locked transactions @250k BCR ?
Are going to be unlocked ? If yes, what if someone decide not having anymore BN's ... and sell those 250k ?

I think it's fine if someone wants to get out. the influx of cheap coins would actually make it easier to get more people aboard. I doubt though that the BN owners would do this, they have been enjoying a steady stream of income, they would not want to lose it.

lol, if they decide to sell, we'll be waiting with buy orders

We who ?! Just analyze the last 2 months of transactions.
We need advertisement... aggressive, getting ppl to know who are we, and what are our intentions, present and future ...
PR ... are a big minus in this moments ...
Passing to a 50k BN, with good advertisement, could be a awesome IPO ...

[hack_]

Ok BNs are getting 18.75, i'd like to remove the dust and just make it 18. 18 BCR would be good enough to encourage BN mining and also encourage others to get a BN.

So in light of this, i'll have to throw my support behind the 50K collateral idea. If you invest 50K BCR in a BN you open up a window of revenue through mining non competitively.

@ 50K we may see influx of new interest in having a BN

How about those 21 locked transactions @250k BCR ?
Are going to be unlocked ? If yes, what if someone decide not having anymore BN's ... and sell those 250k ?

I think it's fine if someone wants to get out. the influx of cheap coins would actually make it easier to get more people aboard. I doubt though that the BN owners would do this, they have been enjoying a steady stream of income, they would not want to lose it.

lol, if they decide to sell, we'll be waiting with buy orders

We who ?! Just analyze the last 2 months of transactions.
We need advertisement... aggressive, getting ppl to know who are we, and what are our intentions, present and future ...
PR ... are a big minus in this moments ...
Passing to a 50k BN, with good advertisement, could be a awesome IPO ...

+1

I agree completely, but none of the community members seem to have much talent in marketing. Why don't you try ?