Bullion (CBX) 'the Digital Precious Metal' | 2019 Roadmap published

[Killiz]

I'm gonna have to get myself some physical bullion.

Was looking at http://www.bullionrock.com/ located in Guernsey. Tax free to UK mainland so they say.

Any other suggestions BitcoinFX? knowing you are from the UK also.

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[BitcoinCharlie]

I'm gonna have to get myself some physical bullion.

Was looking at http://www.bullionrock.com/ located in Guernsey. Tax free to UK mainland so they say.

Any other suggestions BitcoinFX? knowing you are from the UK also.

If getting PMs is difficult, there may be another option.

Depending on the amount could be a nice option in a P2P trade. I've traded PMs for $UNO and BTC with some people. I believe that one of them was IMZ...excellent for all parties involved.

[BitcoinFX]

I'm gonna have to get myself some physical bullion.

Was looking at http://www.bullionrock.com/ located in Guernsey. Tax free to UK mainland so they say.

Any other suggestions BitcoinFX? knowing you are from the UK also.

The prices seem to be fairly reasonable. It really depends upon what you are looking to buy.

Stacks (25) of 1oz Silver Britannia's are a good option perhaps. Generally you want to try and avoid paying much over the spot price per. Silver 1oz.

TBH even a UK based website like BullionByPost is quite reasonable, if you can buy a good few stacks in one order to get the discounts.

1oz Silver Britannia's have a 2 pound face value as a UK legal tender coin, are fine silver at .999 purity, are Capital Gains Tax Free and insured delivery is always a bonus.

If you are able to buy-in around double the quantity that you intend to store long-term, it is usually possible to split up one of the stacks in say around 2-3 years and then sell the individual coins for a very good mark-up. International collectors are often keen to complete sets of individual yearly coin issues, especially on bidding websites. Even with the reduction in the spot price it is possible to double up on the purchase price on an individual coin, if you brought some in bulk. Nothing is ever for certain though.

Tenth Ounce Gold Britannia's are also good to buy in stacks. However, buying bullion bars close to the spot price can be cost saving for smaller orders. It really depends.

Trying to find better deals using Bitcoin accepting sellers and/or buying bullion from outside of the UK is generally not that beneficial really, unless you are looking for rare or unique items etc.,

- Why Silver And NOT Gold - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVgQBuDt4E   

[IMZ]

A Western-Australian mob called 'Perth Bullion' sells Perth-Mint products at a penny under the mark. Our preferred product -- 'beginner-guy silver' -- is the Mint-stamped 10-oz bar of silver. It costs a penny over the day's-price-per-ounce, and is delivered, insured, for under $10; and if you're in Oz, IndiaMikeZulu will bust its hump to do crypto-bullion P2P.

Mark

[Alex4J]

[...]
... Also, any groups of less than or equal to 500 CBX will be grouped together automatically by the Vault.
[...]
 

I believe this isn't happening on my side. I had 6 CBX "on the side" and they never got aggregated to the main chunk. I'll make a test targeting this feature and will let you know.

Confirmed. It doesn't aggregate.

Maybe new selection system is  bit too restrictive with dust.
You can try to launch wallet with old selection system:
CryptoBullion-Qt.exe -hardstake

It maybe will stake better but use more ressources

I started Vault with that switch some hours ago. I just got a stake but the small amount which didn't stake (1.6 CBX) is still separate.

Hi,
It won't add 1.6 cbx if it is not needed....
I mean why would he use more coin if it already has got enough coin to discover the stake block ?
In fact you want that your wallet use too much coin for a stake... ?
That's not useful because the reward is based on money supply and not coins staked.
That's a bit weird to want that lol

[BitcoinFX]

A Western-Australian mob called 'Perth Bullion' sells Perth-Mint products at a penny under the mark. Our preferred product -- 'beginner-guy silver' -- is the Mint-stamped 10-oz bar of silver. It costs a penny over the day's-price-per-ounce, and is delivered, insured, for under $10; and if you're in Oz, IndiaMikeZulu will bust its hump to do crypto-bullion P2P.

Mark

I did not intend to put a dampener on any Bitcoin, CryptoBullion or P2P trading for precious metals (in my previous post).

I'm obviously all for that. 

[elambert]

A few really exciting projects developing here simultaneously and interestingly the primary barrier to success for each is getting the community and others to understand them.

PoSP is live and working but many still do not understand why it is a game changer...

PoV has some test examples already logged in the blockchain but many still have questions of how it adds value...

P2P trading has logged its first official trade but many still don't understand the purpose and goal...


3 blockbuster ideas and projects in my opinion, we just have to keep developing on the ideas and educating the community even if its one individual at a time.

If anyone has questions on these concepts, please ask.

Learn and then make it a daily goal to try to educate someone else.

Suggestions of ways to better explain these projects are of course welcomed.

I for one would love to see a series of short informative videos that can summarize these concepts clearly and concisely in a very easy to understand manner.

[malafaya]

[...]
... Also, any groups of less than or equal to 500 CBX will be grouped together automatically by the Vault.
[...]
 

I believe this isn't happening on my side. I had 6 CBX "on the side" and they never got aggregated to the main chunk. I'll make a test targeting this feature and will let you know.

Confirmed. It doesn't aggregate.

Maybe new selection system is  bit too restrictive with dust.
You can try to launch wallet with old selection system:
CryptoBullion-Qt.exe -hardstake

It maybe will stake better but use more ressources

I started Vault with that switch some hours ago. I just got a stake but the small amount which didn't stake (1.6 CBX) is still separate.

Hi,
It won't add 1.6 cbx if it is not needed....
I mean why would he use more coin if it already has got enough coin to discover the stake block ?
In fact you want that your wallet use too much coin for a stake... ?
That's not useful because the reward is based on money supply and not coins staked.
That's a bit weird to want that lol

Sorry, I didn't understand. I'm staking with just 143 CBX, and I'm staking very infrequently and irregularly. I don't know how much is "needed" but that's way under 500 CBX. I would like to increase my staking frequency by adding every "dust" to the main pile until it's enough (as suggested before in this thread). How does Vault know it's "needed"? If it never stakes (so aggregating would in fact be needed), it will never have the chance to do it.
So either it aggregates small inputs or it doesn't. What's the criteria?

[digit]

[...]
... Also, any groups of less than or equal to 500 CBX will be grouped together automatically by the Vault.
[...]
 

I believe this isn't happening on my side. I had 6 CBX "on the side" and they never got aggregated to the main chunk. I'll make a test targeting this feature and will let you know.

Confirmed. It doesn't aggregate.

Maybe new selection system is  bit too restrictive with dust.
You can try to launch wallet with old selection system:
CryptoBullion-Qt.exe -hardstake

It maybe will stake better but use more ressources

I started Vault with that switch some hours ago. I just got a stake but the small amount which didn't stake (1.6 CBX) is still separate.

Hi,
It won't add 1.6 cbx if it is not needed....
I mean why would he use more coin if it already has got enough coin to discover the stake block ?
In fact you want that your wallet use too much coin for a stake... ?
That's not useful because the reward is based on money supply and not coins staked.
That's a bit weird to want that lol

Sorry, I didn't understand. I'm staking with just 143 CBX, and I'm staking very infrequently and irregularly. I don't know how much is "needed" but that's way under 500 CBX. I would like to increase my staking frequency by adding every "dust" to the main pile until it's enough (as suggested before in this thread). How does Vault know it's "needed"? If it never stakes (so aggregating would in fact be needed), it will never have the chance to do it.
So either it aggregates small inputs or it doesn't. What's the criteria?

Hi, you can use the coincontrol feature to manually select all of the inputs in the addresses in your vault, to then combine them by sending in one transaction to yourself and creating a single input of 143 CBX for future PoSP staking. It also will not split as its below the 500 coin threshold for an input mentioned above, and if wallet always running you will see some regular PosP stakes from it

From my experience with PoSP so far, smaller inputs will take longer to stake, but it will happen. If you acquire more CBX from faucet or exchange in future, remember to combine them, as the individual inputs will likely be too small on their own (o.005CBX etc) to be able to stake

Hope that helps

[malafaya]

[...]
... Also, any groups of less than or equal to 500 CBX will be grouped together automatically by the Vault.
[...]
 

I believe this isn't happening on my side. I had 6 CBX "on the side" and they never got aggregated to the main chunk. I'll make a test targeting this feature and will let you know.

Confirmed. It doesn't aggregate.

Maybe new selection system is  bit too restrictive with dust.
You can try to launch wallet with old selection system:
CryptoBullion-Qt.exe -hardstake

It maybe will stake better but use more ressources

I started Vault with that switch some hours ago. I just got a stake but the small amount which didn't stake (1.6 CBX) is still separate.

Hi,
It won't add 1.6 cbx if it is not needed....
I mean why would he use more coin if it already has got enough coin to discover the stake block ?
In fact you want that your wallet use too much coin for a stake... ?
That's not useful because the reward is based on money supply and not coins staked.
That's a bit weird to want that lol

Sorry, I didn't understand. I'm staking with just 143 CBX, and I'm staking very infrequently and irregularly. I don't know how much is "needed" but that's way under 500 CBX. I would like to increase my staking frequency by adding every "dust" to the main pile until it's enough (as suggested before in this thread). How does Vault know it's "needed"? If it never stakes (so aggregating would in fact be needed), it will never have the chance to do it.
So either it aggregates small inputs or it doesn't. What's the criteria?

Hi, you can use the coincontrol feature to manually select all of the inputs in the addresses in your vault, to then combine them by sending in one transaction to yourself and creating a single input of 143 CBX for future PoSP staking. It also will not split as its below the 500 coin threshold for an input mentioned above, and if wallet always running you will see some regular PosP stakes from it

From my experience with PoSP so far, smaller inputs will take longer to stake, but it will happen. If you acquire more CBX from faucet or exchange in future, remember to combine them, as the individual inputs will likely be too small on their own (o.005CBX etc) to be able to stake

Hope that helps

Thanks for your reply, digit.
I had a nice chat on IRC with Alex and I finally understood.
So far I had the notion that inputs worked independently from each other, so a 300 CBX input is more likely to stake than a 30 CBX one. Apparently, this is not exactly what's happening behind the scenes. Inputs may be combined to find an answer to the mathematical problem being solved. So if a 300 CBX block cannot fulfill the condition, the extra 30 CBX from the example will be thrown in/combined in order to find a solution. Only and only if a combination of inputs below 500 CBX match a solution they (and only those) will be combined.
So, in my original case, 1.6 CBX don't have much weight to add to the other 143 CBX, so it's not likely they will be combined any time soon, that is, they won't find a solution when combined for which the 143 CBX wasn't able to find on its own. Let's not forget that input age is no longer considered.

So, from my point of view, there is no real advantage for staking in consolidating inputs as they are already combined on the fly for calculation purposes. The advantage I see and has already been mentioned elsewhere has to do with resources occupation: more inputs mean more resources, namely memory. So in my case I see a good strategy in keeping some 3 or 4 smaller inputs as they may still be combined to produce a stake (this is what Alex meant by "needed") while leaving unused inputs still staking (used inputs will be unavailable in the first hour after staking: if a single chunk stakes then you won't stake anything for at least an hour).

I hope this helps.

[BitcoinFX]

...
PoV has some test examples already logged in the blockchain but many still have questions of how it adds value...
...

Indeed. Let's have a look into the nitty-gritty of how Proof-of-Value bullion backing actually benefits CBX through true price discovery.

Example;

Alice has 125 CBX and decides to back it with 5oz of .999 fine silver.

Bob has 500 CBX and decides to back it with 10oz of .999 fine silver.


Today (with a $13.58 London fix for 1oz silver at 12 noon) - http://www.lbma.org.uk/pricing-and-statistics ...

Alice's 5oz silver x $13.58 = $67.90 / 125 CBX = a representative proof-of-value of $0.5432 per. CBX.

Bob's 10oz silver x $13.58 = $135.8 / 500 CBX = a representative proof-of-value of $0.2716 per CBX.


Alice and Bob's combined backing therefore equates to a proof-of-value (average) of $0.4074 per. CBX.


The Proof-of-Value Network becomes more interesting when;

Carol has 100 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of gold.

Desmond has 1 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of palladium.

elambert has 10,000 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of platinum.  


As more people (and businesses) continue to participate in the Proof-of-Value network CBX/Real-Bullion value begins to realize true price discovery and finds equilibrium against the total CBX supply.

Anyone backing their own CBX holdings would be increasingly likely to back against the established proof-of-value (network average).

Everyone is also likely to back (adjust) their current holdings against the changing proof-of-value (network moving average).

Backed CBX is technically not in current circulation. Thus, we can also define CBX in circulation (more on this later - to be defined).

This network effect can directly benefit true price discovery. For example;

Network participants are increasingly less likely to back 1,000 CBX with just 1oz of silver (due to finite CBX supply), especially when most participants are backing 0.01 CBX with 1oz of gold (for example). This, in fact, not being dissimilar to how a 51% network attack becomes to 'expensive' to procure against a PoS coin, as network participation involves one's self holding both assets i.e. CBX and precious metal in combination.

...

I could type a lot more regarding theory here - although I have tried to keep this post as concise as possible.

  

[Killiz]

I'm gonna have to get myself some physical bullion.

Was looking at http://www.bullionrock.com/ located in Guernsey. Tax free to UK mainland so they say.

Any other suggestions BitcoinFX? knowing you are from the UK also.

If getting PMs is difficult, there may be another option.

Depending on the amount could be a nice option in a P2P trade. I've traded PMs for $UNO and BTC with some people. I believe that one of them was IMZ...excellent for all parties involved.

This is one of my dreams for CBX. Crypto Bullion to Physical Bullion exchange. To and fro, to and fro. One valued against the other.

Holding physical bullion is one thing, but spending it is another.
Conversion can be a costly and time consuming process. With taxes, mailing charges, and time waiting for cash to become available.
If you could quickly convert your precious metals to something more spendable, without having to go through some middleman, it would be a revolution in the trading of PM's for spendable cash over the internet.

Total control of your assets without depending on a third party to give you that service and take their charge for doing so.

The eventuality of my dream would be a P2P physical bullion/crypto bullion exchange, where anyone selling physical bullion could do so for a stable CBX price, fluctuating only with the traditional exchange value of precious metals, and an easy entry/exit for doing so.

I think the first steps would be building a friendly and trustworthy P2P network, open to regular bitcoin trades, with the option of PM exchange if desired.

The next step would be having those in the community with PM's to back their CBX with their precious metals http://cryptobullion.io/proof-of-value-network/ at a value that they would desire to trade in the future.
Once this value is reached the trade would become open, and anyone wanting to buy that lot of precious metals or coins for CBX would be able to execute the trade.

[Killiz]

...
PoV has some test examples already logged in the blockchain but many still have questions of how it adds value...
...

Indeed. Let's have a look into the nitty-gritty of how Proof-of-Value bullion backing actually benefits CBX through true price discovery.

Example;

Alice has 125 CBX and decides to back it with 5oz of .999 fine silver.

Bob has 500 CBX and decides to back it with 10oz of .999 fine silver.


Today (with a $13.58 London fix for 1oz silver at 12 noon) - http://www.lbma.org.uk/pricing-and-statistics ...

Alice's 5oz silver x $13.58 = $67.90 / 125 CBX = a representative proof-of-value of $0.5432 per. CBX.

Bob's 10oz silver x $13.58 = $135.8 / 500 CBX = a representative proof-of-value of $0.2716 per CBX.


Alice and Bob's combined backing therefore equates to a proof-of-value (average) of $0.4074 per. CBX.


The Proof-of-Value Network becomes more interesting when;

Carol has 100 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of gold.

Desmond has 1 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of palladium.

elambert has 10,000 CBX and decides to back it with x amount of platinum.  


As more people (and businesses) continue to participate in the Proof-of-Value network CBX/Real-Bullion value begins to realize true price discovery and finds equilibrium against the total CBX supply.

Anyone backing their own CBX holdings would be increasingly likely to back against the established proof-of-value (network average).

Everyone is also likely to back (adjust) their current holdings against the changing proof-of-value (network moving average).

Backed CBX is technically not in current circulation. Thus, we can also define CBX in circulation (more on this later - to be defined).

This network effect can directly benefit true price discovery. For example;

Network participants are increasingly less likely to back 1,000 CBX with just 1oz of silver (due to finite CBX supply), especially when most participants are backing 0.01 CBX with 1oz of gold (for example). This, in fact, not being dissimilar to how a 51% network attack becomes to 'expensive' to procure against a PoS coin, as network participation involves one's self holding both assets i.e. CBX and precious metal in combination.

...

I could type a lot more regarding theory here - although I have tried to keep this post as concise as possible.

  

I love your concept of POV BitcoinFX, I see it as a revolutionary price discovery technique for crypto-currencies.

However, it is a mindF*~K to get your head around lol.

Although there could be individuals backing their PM's on the network and updating as appropriate, continually as they spend, and as they void their backing.

I don't see how there is a way to determine the actual truth of the backing, or un-backing for that matter.

I would really like to think that everyone that would get involved with backing their PM's, 'and un-backing' via POV on the blockchain, would adhere and modify their backing as appropriate, when spending, or selling their PM's, but I don't see that everyone would do this, either intentionally or of a forgetful manner.

Is there a way to easily verify this?

Don't get me wrong i think the idea is brilliant. I just maybe see some holes, and I'm hoping you can fill them in

[Killiz]

P.S

On the P2P trading, as IMZ has suggested, maybe we could go with a buy/sell split of maybe a top sell value and a bottom buy value.

Would anyone like to trade like this? If so we will go this way about things.

My alternative would be an average price, buy or sell, slap bang in the middle. A price where it would be convenient and potentially profitable for the buyer or seller the recoup and profit their buy/sell on the exchanges, as there will be a certain buy/sell difference no matter what the trade.

Let me know how you would feel about the working out of the P2P exchange rates, and also let me know if you are wanting to take part in P2P trading.

[BitcoinFX]

I love your concept of POV BitcoinFX, I see it as a revolutionary price discovery technique for crypto-currencies.

However, it is a mindF*~K to get your head around lol.

Although there could be individuals backing their PM's on the network and updating as appropriate, continually as they spend, and as they void their backing.

I don't see how there is a way to determine the actual truth of the backing, or un-backing for that matter.

I would really like to think that everyone that would get involved with backing their PM's, 'and un-backing' via POV on the blockchain, would adhere and modify their backing as appropriate, when spending, or selling their PM's, but I don't see that everyone would do this, either intentionally or of a forgetful manner.

Is there a way to easily verify this?

Don't get me wrong i think the idea is brilliant. I just maybe see some holes, and I'm hoping you can fill them in

The majority of perceived issues with this concept are fairly easily solved or are less problematic than they first appear to be.

(1) Backed CBX becomes automatically un-backed if the self-signed CBX denomination is less than that certificated and after x duration expires i.e. 48 hours 'grace'. This process can be automated via a block explorer.

(2) Self-signed Proof-of-Value certification should also automatically expire after a set duration (or on a network consensus based on block count), much in the same way as SSL certificates for https websites are valid for 60 days, 90 days, 180 days etc., or as blockchain name services have a set duration, as seen with namecoin or emercoin i.e. smart contract expiration.

(3) Consensus based models could be implemented for 'trust' validation i.e. trusted vs untrusted backing consensus (dual pricing / value model). linked example: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_(SSL) for how this might be achieved with a browser based plug-in running directly from the CBX wallet / blockchain, again much like namecoin or emercoin DNS, as a decentralized notary daemon.

(4) Multiple representation of the same physical bullion by the same individual is unlikely, and is already somewhat overcome by using a network consensus 'trust' model. Furthermore, to represent the same bullion you still require additional CBX to back / sign / verify with, so doing this becomes increasingly expensive and unlikely. Remembering also that the main benefit of participation in a Proof-of-Value network is towards the collective value, above that of the individually represented value.

All of the above can remain fully decentralized and Peer-to-Peer.  

[IMZ]

P.S

On the P2P trading, as IMZ has suggested, maybe we could go with a buy/sell split of maybe a top sell value and a bottom buy value.

Would anyone like to trade like this? If so we will go this way about things.

My alternative would be an average price, buy or sell, slap bang in the middle. A price where it would be convenient and potentially profitable for the buyer or seller the recoup and profit their buy/sell on the exchanges, as there will be a certain buy/sell difference no matter what the trade.

Let me know how you would feel about the working out of the P2P exchange rates, and also let me know if you are wanting to take part in P2P trading.

'P2P trading has logged its first official trade but many still don't understand the purpose and goal... '

Feel free to ask me.

Overall, over time, it's about connections: CBX = bullion = trust among ('core-')community members = merchant development = peripheral projects = increased theoretical understanding of crypto-currencies,  and their markets and communities, etc.

Buy-sell split (up on the exchange) 750-600

[BitcoinNational]

...
PoV has some test examples already logged in the blockchain but many still have questions of how it adds value...
...

Indeed. Let's have a look into the nitty-gritty of how Proof-of-Value bullion backing actually benefits CBX through true price discovery.

big idea
likely works
1. proof of coin held (Crypto Bullion)
2. demonstration of bullion held in reserves (Real Bull)
3. UNITY is a product much like this it can show a balance of held (NXT asset) reserves :: CBX does metal based assets
4. thus you get a round-table/club that acts as buyers of last resort and can measure/record performance

CBX = bullion + trust among ('core-')community members

also settle in bullion_RATE_exchange, if needed, not 24/7, but 30day or 90day intervals

ez way work with the spot price ... get rate convert to digital ... send value ... done

but still need to take the last step and acquire physical (but done by self wheresoever you are in the world)

e.g. public contract
ORACLE >> http://preev.com/btc/xau
AGREEMENT >> ('core-')community members will repurchase 1000.00 CBX coins [@ timestamp Day Hour] for the value of ONE XAU
_{TERMS & CONDITIONS ... the fine print stuff}

TLDR;
100s of community members have real bull
if and only if CBX starts to trade below BTC0.00xxxxx or $0.xx
THEN they sell real bull and buy crypto bull

[elambert]

We have a couple of projects that need assistance. If anyone from the community is interested and has the necessary skill set, please reach out to me. Pay will be in CBX and to be discussed.

1. Logo redesign project - Looking for someone to help recreate our CBX logo. This could be a permanent position on the core team as work of this type is always needed (banners, splash screen, etc)

2. Promotional Video Creator - Looking for someone able to create some educational/promotional videos for CBX. The first one would be a video to explain PoSP.

3. Website design - It is time we start work on redesigning the website with a fresh new look and to better organize our wealth of information.

Also, volunteers are always needed so if you have a particular skill set and want to assist with CBX, please reach out and let us know what your skills are and how you envision improving CBX. I am happy to award bounties.

[lab rat hoax]

The bank of japan just announced that they will
now reward savers with negative interest rates

The idea of a stable currency designed to be a store of value
Would be very appealing at this point
I always see development teams reaching out to
China but let's not forget Japan


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/bank-of-japan-shocks-markets-by-adopting-negative-interest-rates


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSEmJyOylZc&feature=youtu.be

[VonSpass]

The bank of japan just announced that they will
now reward savers with negative interest rates

The idea of a stable currency designed to be a store of value
Would be very appealing at this point
I always see development teams reaching out to
China but let's not forget Japan

Good idea for Japan; I will look into it...