[DASH/XDN/XMR/SDC] Comparison between the most known anonymous coins (MUST READ)

[stonehedge]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash.  Is this not a complete change in direction?  Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all.  DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to  increase this and speed it up.  Anonymity is still a core product.

[illodin]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

He got the idea from a daydream hoping drk/dash would go away so his shadow coins would make him rich.

Well I got news for him, seems like monero and navajocoin are next in line so you need to hope drk AND monero AND navajocoin all go away.

[stonehedge]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

He got the idea from a daydream hoping drk/dash would go away so his shadow coins would make him rich.

Well I got news for him, seems like monero and navajocoin are next in line so you need to hope drk AND monero AND navajocoin all go away.

Navajo is indeed looking pretty solid.  Nice and calm community too.

[rustynailer]

Haha very funny guys.   

[ffmad]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash.  Is this not a complete change in direction?  Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all.  DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to  increase this and speed it up.  Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ...  

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

[stonehedge]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash.  Is this not a complete change in direction?  Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all.  DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to  increase this and speed it up.  Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ...  

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

What a load of bullshit.  How does the fact we have greater adoption than any over anon coin mean that we are less anon?

[ffmad]

Where have you got the idea that DRK has pulled out of the anon race?  What does this even mean?

They are not Dark anymore, they are Dash.  Is this not a complete change in direction?  Consumer adoption seems to be more the priority rather than anonymity.

The name change does not alter the underlying technology at all.  DRK already has growing adoption and the hope is to  increase this and speed it up.  Anonymity is still a core product.

DRK want to be the next Bitcoin. Be a good coin, accepted by everyone.

It might be the death of this coin as an anon coin, seriously. If you want to see "Dash" accepted by Dell, it won't be anonymous at all.

You can't do two opposite aims at the same time. Dash will surely continue to grow, but not as an anon coin ...  

Some heavy supporters of DRK have already understood that, for example, Sangoku who was shouting "DarkCoin" everywhere in the French section of Bitcointalk has now stopped to support it. (And he was an heavy supporter since day one)

What a load of bullshit.  How does the fact we have greater adoption than any over anon coin mean that we are less anon?

What adoption ?

At the moment, DarkCoin is accepted on some dark markets and some unknown websites.

"Dash" objective look like: "Dash will be used by the average guy to do an average buy". Do you really think he will use an anon coin for that ?

[illodin]

"Dash" objective look like: "Dash will be used by the average guy to do an average buy". Do you really think he will use an anon coin for that ?

Exactly, especially if he has nothing to hide!

EDIT: Shit, I should start charging 10 SDC for each bump. Gotta download a wallet first so I can post my addy, just a moment.

[dasource]

<snip>

Whatever the specific comparisons on the effectiveness of cryptography vs mixing, they are largely irrelevant because darkcoin's massive redundancy and iterative approach blows away any deficiency. It's also a more holistic approach which addresses monetary priorities rather than security ones.

For a prospective monetary medium, thats the right way around in my opinion.

I would have to disagree for a number of reasons.

Firstly, most MasterNodes(DRK) are currently hosted on VMs and that in itself is your biggest design down-fall. MN need to be "running" to provide a service and that requires a reliable and cheap place to host (so where does everyone flock to? yeah you got it Amazon, Vultr, DO etc). Where as cryptography based solution does not require this.

Secondly, as our good friend at ZeroCash said "methods of analysis only get stronger" - a cryptography based solution is the only way forward IMO.

As someone who has spent the best part of the last 11 years in the cloud R&D arena I know how easy it is for the Big Brother to request and gain access to data from cloud providers without the end user ever knowing .. and this my friend is where MasterNodes has a major design flaw. For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!
Lastly, I have yet to see a solution to the "anonymity" war which is better than a cryptography based one.

flaws in your assesment,
MN is nothing special, it's just a wallet with extra settings enabled, there is no requirement for VPS, it's just a choice.
DRK is global, there are tons of places in the world where you can host a MN and noone will bother you.

You clearly don't understand the function of MN that is why you would say

For all you know a very large % (very very large) is already de-anonymised.

Every Wallet is a potential masternode, there is no de anonymizing the whole network.

No sir, there is no flaws in my assessment. Only flaws here are peoples ability to understand the technology.
Let me make it easy for you to digest.

67% of MasterNodes reside at 5 different ASNs
92% of MasterNodes reside at 9 different ASNs

...so to de-anonymize 92% of the MN network (on a basic TX basis) all I need to-do is "work closely" with 9 different hosting providers... get a copy of the TXs and then run chain analysis software on it to de-anonymize the lot! And you as a MN operator would be none the wiser (yes because 90% of MN operators don't have a clue about the tech)

There are far too many people in this space who spout out tech knowledge without understanding it; very dangerous!!

You fall in that category.

:facepalm:

I do agree that Cryptographic solutions are better and are something to strive for, but there are many ways to skin a cat.

The only sensible comment you have made... you are making progress.

[illodin]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

[dasource]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

[illodin]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

[dasource]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

Buddy you cannot run a cryto currency saying it is anonymous and then add the tag line "only once it has enough value and we move our 92%+ masternodes off cloud providers?" ... (also all the data you leave on the cloud providers will help then deanonymize previous transactions etc) ...
I am sorry but that just does not cut it! If I want to use a privacy centric currency I want reassurance it is "anonymous" today...

[illodin]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

Buddy you cannot run a cryto currency saying it is anonymous and then add the tag line "only once it has enough value and we move our 92%+ masternodes off cloud providers?" ...

Stop creating straw men in order to get me to bump your SDC advertisement thread. If you want to discuss this issue, post in the DRK DASH thread.

[microchoveur]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

So you are saying you are willing to risk all on the basis one day 90%+ of masternodes do not operate at a handful of providers? and for all you know currently the so called "anon" transactions are already being de-anonymized?

That's not at all what I'm saying. When I think DASH is big enough that NSA might try to take over all of the nodes, and I'm doing something I don't want NSA to know, I'll run my own masternode on raspberry pi 3 and use that as one of the mixing nodes. But then again, I might fail anyway as they have my computer backdoored already.

Buddy you cannot run a cryto currency saying it is anonymous and then add the tag line "only once it has enough value and we move our 92%+ masternodes off cloud providers?" ...

Stop creating straw men in order to get me to bump your SDC advertisement thread. If you want to discuss this issue, post in the DRK DASH thread.

Oh dude... Come on, seriously ?
As I always say, i'm not a fanboy. If the coin i'm supporting has something wrong, I recognize it.

The fact is that you're avoiding the discussion because he made a huge point. I'm not advertizing, he's just right about it, what can you say against these arguments ?

[ffmad]

People run their masternodes on cheap VMs right now because it's cheap. Because DRK DASH is still very cheap, the rewards for running a node is small - around $30/month or so. If/when DRK DASH grows enough that authorities who can request private data from cloud operators actually get interested enough to do so, the rewards for running a masternode are likely to be more than $1000/month. And when you get $1000/month for running a node, you're not going to run it in Amazon. Obviously someone might, but that's ok - anonymization by masternodes is designed to resists huge sybil attacks.

On what base do you think the reward will be more than $1000/month for a Masternode in the future ?

If the reward is high, much more people will run Masternodes, then the reward will be ... much lower.
It's like mining, when you can make "easy" money, lot of people will do the same, and in the end, the reward will never be that good.

So I think the majority of Masternodes will always run on cheap servers

I've updated the comparison with darknote :

[Dofus]

Thread updated with DarkNote !

[stonehedge]

Thread updated with DarkNote !

Why still amber for Darsend being untraceable/unlinkable?

Darksend has yet to be traced or linked and that chap who made the bold claims several weeks ago has failed to deliver (which is no suprise since his initial claim was false too).

[00Smurf]

Should prolly add navajo coin in for the comparison, since much ado is being made about it.

[microchoveur]

Should prolly add navajo coin in for the comparison, since much ado is being made about it.

Very true ! Wait a bit