ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Entropy-uc]

Tapeout to finished silicon is ~45 days with a hot lot.  After that you have bumping and packaging, board assembly and test, etc.

[Mabsark]

Eta for next gen tape-out is jan 20th

Which does not mean next gen chips will be available then, in case that's what some of you were thinking. Sample chips will arrive about 2-3 months after tape out. For example, HashFast taped-out on 2013-09-05, the first wafers were completed on 2013-11-08, and sample chips were received on 2013-12-01.

So, next gen AM chips will likely be ready in March/April.

It is not really fair to compare asicminer to hashfast. However march/april does seem like a reasonable estimate for gen3 deployment.

I'm not comparing AM to HashFast, I'm just showing how long it typically takes for foundries to produce the wafers and for those wafers to be packaged into chips. The process is pretty much out of AM's or HashFast's hands until they get the samples back.

Wans't the tape-out from KnC 3 weeks before they delivered a working product? Or am I misremembering?

I couldn't find a date for KnC's tape out, but there is the following:

All,

I would like to say that EVERYTHING that needs to be done at this point in time for a September delivery has indeed been done.
We are on track for delivery and we know of nothing currently to the contrary.

There is not a single part in our systems that has a longer delivery time than the time we still have available.

Yes that does imply that things that don’t need to be ordered yet have not been ordered. The reason behind that is we simply don’t need to order them yet, We do  have contracts with all suppliers we need to have contracts with Those contracts contain delivery times and the associated order dates by which we must confirm the amounts (and of course pay).

I hope this removes confusion

KnCMiner

and

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

So, tape out was likely around 2013-06-26 and 2013-07-30 at the latest.

From the KNC website:

Chip News
9/17/2013 6:29:00 AM

You have all been waiting for an update on our chips and we can today announce that the Fabrication process has finished and the wafers are on their way to the packing assembly house right now. They will be in the assembly house for a few days before they make their way to us in Sweden  and of course via the fastest method possible.

and

Production News
9/30/2013 7:51:00 AM

We have relocated most of our operation to the factory over the weekend. The first delivery of the chips have arrived and have been populated on the boards. We have begun testing and initial results are good, we will have more updates throughout the day. We know many of you are calling and we are sorry if we cannot answer your call. This is a very busy time for us but we are all hands on deck we can assure you of that.

So, wafers were completed around 9/17/2013 and sample chips arrived on 9/30/2013. That's around 3 months between tape out and getting sample chips back.

[Equilux]

Eta for next gen tape-out is jan 20th

Which does not mean next gen chips will be available then, in case that's what some of you were thinking. Sample chips will arrive about 2-3 months after tape out. For example, HashFast taped-out on 2013-09-05, the first wafers were completed on 2013-11-08, and sample chips were received on 2013-12-01.

So, next gen AM chips will likely be ready in March/April.

It is not really fair to compare asicminer to hashfast. However march/april does seem like a reasonable estimate for gen3 deployment.

I'm not comparing AM to HashFast, I'm just showing how long it typically takes for foundries to produce the wafers and for those wafers to be packaged into chips. The process is pretty much out of AM's or HashFast's hands until they get the samples back.

Wans't the tape-out from KnC 3 weeks before they delivered a working product? Or am I misremembering?

I couldn't find a date for KnC's tape out, but there is the following:

All,

I would like to say that EVERYTHING that needs to be done at this point in time for a September delivery has indeed been done.
We are on track for delivery and we know of nothing currently to the contrary.

There is not a single part in our systems that has a longer delivery time than the time we still have available.

Yes that does imply that things that don’t need to be ordered yet have not been ordered. The reason behind that is we simply don’t need to order them yet, We do  have contracts with all suppliers we need to have contracts with Those contracts contain delivery times and the associated order dates by which we must confirm the amounts (and of course pay).

I hope this removes confusion

KnCMiner

and

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

So, tape out was likely around 2013-06-26 and 2013-07-30 at the latest.

From the KNC website:

Chip News
9/17/2013 6:29:00 AM

You have all been waiting for an update on our chips and we can today announce that the Fabrication process has finished and the wafers are on their way to the packing assembly house right now. They will be in the assembly house for a few days before they make their way to us in Sweden  and of course via the fastest method possible.

and

Production News
9/30/2013 7:51:00 AM

We have relocated most of our operation to the factory over the weekend. The first delivery of the chips have arrived and have been populated on the boards. We have begun testing and initial results are good, we will have more updates throughout the day. We know many of you are calling and we are sorry if we cannot answer your call. This is a very busy time for us but we are all hands on deck we can assure you of that.

So, wafers were completed around 9/17/2013 and sample chips arrived on 9/30/2013. That's around 3 months between tape out and getting sample chips back.

Great digging there, thanks for the solid reply!

[empoweoqwj]

Friedcat definitely missed a huge opportunity on the sales side.  It was obvious in March that the demand for hardware would persist into the 10s of Ph/s.  ASICMINER could have supplied a very large chunk of that.

I'm sure it was amusing selling hardware at >$500 / Gh/s to fools that would never see BTC breakeven on the gear.  But he could have just as easily sold several Ph/s at $50 to smart investors who stood on the sidelines and kept their money in hand.  That would have been >$100M in sales. 

I actually contacted Friedcat regarding this direction as my family had resources in China and the US to support distribution at this scale.  Even though I was a large shareholder at the time, he never bothered to respond.

Now he's planning to come to market with a 40 nm product when at least 5 groups will have a 28 nm device available before him.  Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight!

Not sure how FC could have supplied huge amounts of hash rate with their old hardware? We all wish they could have waved a magic wand and supplied all demand but business doesn't work like that. Where was he going to get several Ph/s from

[jimmothy]

Friedcat definitely missed a huge opportunity on the sales side.  It was obvious in March that the demand for hardware would persist into the 10s of Ph/s.  ASICMINER could have supplied a very large chunk of that.

I'm sure it was amusing selling hardware at >$500 / Gh/s to fools that would never see BTC breakeven on the gear.  But he could have just as easily sold several Ph/s at $50 to smart investors who stood on the sidelines and kept their money in hand.  That would have been >$100M in sales. 

I actually contacted Friedcat regarding this direction as my family had resources in China and the US to support distribution at this scale.  Even though I was a large shareholder at the time, he never bothered to respond.

Now he's planning to come to market with a 40 nm product when at least 5 groups will have a 28 nm device available before him.  Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight!

Not sure how FC could have supplied huge amounts of hash rate with their old hardware? We all wish they could have waved a magic wand and supplied all demand but business doesn't work like that. Where was he going to get several Ph/s from

From the same fab that built his wafers for him.  SMIC I suspect.  130 nm fabs run just about empty these days.  He could have built as much as he wanted.

There are already 3 datacenters filled with gen1 chips and that seems to be pulling around 100th/s.

[empoweoqwj]

Friedcat definitely missed a huge opportunity on the sales side.  It was obvious in March that the demand for hardware would persist into the 10s of Ph/s.  ASICMINER could have supplied a very large chunk of that.

I'm sure it was amusing selling hardware at >$500 / Gh/s to fools that would never see BTC breakeven on the gear.  But he could have just as easily sold several Ph/s at $50 to smart investors who stood on the sidelines and kept their money in hand.  That would have been >$100M in sales. 

I actually contacted Friedcat regarding this direction as my family had resources in China and the US to support distribution at this scale.  Even though I was a large shareholder at the time, he never bothered to respond.

Now he's planning to come to market with a 40 nm product when at least 5 groups will have a 28 nm device available before him.  Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight!

Not sure how FC could have supplied huge amounts of hash rate with their old hardware? We all wish they could have waved a magic wand and supplied all demand but business doesn't work like that. Where was he going to get several Ph/s from

From the same fab that built his wafers for him.  SMIC I suspect.  130 nm fabs run just about empty these days.  He could have built as much as he wanted.

"Built as much as he wanted" - everything is that simple right ..... do you really think if would have ignored you if he thought your idea would generate $100M of sales?

[Lohoris]

Hi guys very new to the board but reading up Bitcoin a lot over last few months.  Ive read White Paper still overwhelmed by potential I see in this disruptive tech.  Posted quite a lot today have noticed there seems to be disingenuous tl:dr attitude which I may have unwittingly been fuelling which explains the reason Im now conscious of having to keep my posts short as poss.  Heres my contribution.  I have set a goal of making 100 Bitcoin during 2014.  I have some inheritance money and will buy and hold the majority (btc quantity will not rise but value might) but want to invest in a high risk:reward venture such as Bitcoin securities yeah.  My Uni room mate basically sent me here so here I am.  Is Asic Miner something you would recommend to me Ive been told will go back up in price again soon?  Last question is it just scare mongering when people talk about companies getting shut down by the Americans when Bitcoin is a global phenomenon?

I found entertaining and ironic that you notice this thread is cluttered with lengthy post, then half of your post itself is just a preface.
And not formatted.
Formatting helps A LOT.

[empoweoqwj]

Friedcat definitely missed a huge opportunity on the sales side.  It was obvious in March that the demand for hardware would persist into the 10s of Ph/s.  ASICMINER could have supplied a very large chunk of that.

I'm sure it was amusing selling hardware at >$500 / Gh/s to fools that would never see BTC breakeven on the gear.  But he could have just as easily sold several Ph/s at $50 to smart investors who stood on the sidelines and kept their money in hand.  That would have been >$100M in sales.  

I actually contacted Friedcat regarding this direction as my family had resources in China and the US to support distribution at this scale.  Even though I was a large shareholder at the time, he never bothered to respond.

Now he's planning to come to market with a 40 nm product when at least 5 groups will have a 28 nm device available before him.  Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight!

Not sure how FC could have supplied huge amounts of hash rate with their old hardware? We all wish they could have waved a magic wand and supplied all demand but business doesn't work like that. Where was he going to get several Ph/s from

From the same fab that built his wafers for him.  SMIC I suspect.  130 nm fabs run just about empty these days.  He could have built as much as he wanted.

"Built as much as he wanted" - everything is that simple right ..... do you really think if would have ignored you if he thought your idea would generate $100M of sales?

I am explaining facts to you.  The facts that led me to sell all my shares over 3 BTC.

That you don't like the facts doesn't change anything.

Yep - the fact is AM turned your "offer" down, so you sold all your shares off. Makes me wonder what you are doing here ....

[Lohoris]

Not interesting.

Could you guys just stop?

[Fordee]

Not interesting.

Could you guys just stop?

+1

[nodroids]

I think all these second guesses by guys outside of the industry Friedcat pretty-well invented and honorably honored his obligations in is a bit laughable.

Furthermore, everyone asking for updates are on their knees begging that he give away trade secrets in one of the world's most competitive industries... Presuming you're a shareholder, many of you are generally begging to slit your own throats.

This guy has proven himself shrewd, with getting franchising going so he could control the best mining pool going come gen 3 and get his franchisees paying for rack, cooling and general data center overhead. All while continuing to look like the white knight of the network, i.e., never going for %51 not when he could back in June and not in four months when he has the cheapest chips and the means to cool them across multiple (security in distribution) data centers. Centralization is the game now, come May even Neptunes in small in-home mining rigs may be shutting down. And he's cooly looking at 25 nm and saying 40 will do when I, Friedcat, can rack them more efficiently while scaling as needed, knife to a gun fight my ass. He can probably scale up under half the costs in China as KnC is taping for in less than marginal efficiency tech in Europe. You wouldn't take those savings up front on equipment that depreciates this fast?!

Let's consider for a moment that he bowed out of gen 2 to develop the full mining model when it was clear that an arms race was going to get out of control.

KnC has near a %22 chip failure rate, mostly due to overheating, according to my scouring of the miners' forums as everyone tries to deploy them ASAP.

Friedcat came through better than any stock maybe even in history, and now everyone is second guessing him developing a mature business model for the industry, that he, again, invented.  With his cash and vision (I'm not even talking about the other half of the model he's developing which is clearly profitable) he is still THE brand in mining's golden age come May.

It's not about flexing brawn in an arms race but developing the business model that reflects the brains to outsmart the competition who're racing like blinded horses. Friedcat has dropped all the cues in the world that he's on this like Alexander on Conquering, short of illuminating the way through the maze for his competitors. He's got the birds in the hand (10,000+ btc) and in the bush. And my money is on him.

[Arcas]

I've been out of the loop for a few months. When I last checkup up on the community, ASICMiner had ~30% of the total hashrate. Now they are at 1%. Can someone fill me in with the situation?

[explorer]

No new deployment, rapid network size increase. New deployment expected by about April.

[empoweoqwj]

I've been out of the loop for a few months. When I last checkup up on the community, ASICMiner had ~30% of the total hashrate. Now they are at 1%. Can someone fill me in with the situation?

30% - those were the days ............

Basically they didn't replace their Gen1 equipment and all the competition arrived ....... but they have it all in hand (cough cough), Gen3 will launch in around April time.

[astutiumRob]

Can someone fill me in with the situation?

Just that other people made/shipped more hashing rate

[bitdude]

0.00081605 BTC per share for today

Happy New Year

[CumpsD]

0.00081605 BTC per share for today

Happy New Year

May I ask how you can check if divs have been paid? Does asicminer always transfer from the same bitcoin address?

I'm asking because I'd like to check if my newly (first) bought shares are now coming from AM or still from the seller passing through divs

[jimmothy]

0.00081605 BTC per share for today

Happy New Year

May I ask how you can check if divs have been paid? Does asicminer always transfer from the same bitcoin address?

I'm asking because I'd like to check if my newly (first) bought shares are now coming from AM or still from the seller passing through divs

https://blockchain.info/address/115tTroRo3B9ZDQ6ATJGDCHcNEVbjJoZnF

[CumpsD]

0.00081605 BTC per share for today

Happy New Year

May I ask how you can check if divs have been paid? Does asicminer always transfer from the same bitcoin address?

I'm asking because I'd like to check if my newly (first) bought shares are now coming from AM or still from the seller passing through divs

https://blockchain.info/address/115tTroRo3B9ZDQ6ATJGDCHcNEVbjJoZnF

Thanks I would've expected to see one massive transaction with all divs in it, but it's lots of little ones apparently

[el_rlee]

How would I invest in ASICMINER now? What's the most direct way? I am not interested in any pass-through... Sorry for not reading up on 800+pages