Sure, in particular scammers love their anonymity.
Scammers also can't prove their hashrate by showing us the blockchain evidence.
They can't show pictures of their non existing datacenter
They can't get their hardware vendors to vouch for them because they have no vendors
They can, however, offer as low a price as they want to.
They can also offer insane deals on referrals.
And they like to mix coins so we cant trace the origins.


If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

No it doesnt. Not if the large mines pay ~$0.06/KwH and especially not if bitfury manages to roll out its 28nm this year.

How about a gentleman's bet for a relatively small amount? Say 0.5 BTC or something?

Im taking bets difficulty wont go down even once this year.

Not sure if you realize, you sound 100% identical to all pirate ponzi pushers and  "pass-through" operators 2 years ago.
"He's always paid out", "its been running for such a long time",  "you cant prove its a ponzi", "I will change my signature when he stops paying out",
yada yada yada. And most of them knew full well it was a ponzi.

There are some more similarities. Pirate paid  1% per day. These mining ponzi's currently pay out roughly 0.00001248/0.0015 BT =  0.8% per day. But, that percentage goes down with every difficulty increase. And there is a much bigger difference: investments in pirate where redeemable, whereas with these mining ponzi's they are not. You cant get your money out. Thats why can operate for so much longer: there is no risk of a bank run.  In theory its even possible they run forever; if it turns out mining is not profitable at those rates, then these ponzi's have to pay less in fictitious mining revenue  than they collected from sales. So they could make a (relatively modest) profit while maintaining the illusion of being honest. Of course, investors would still lose, as they always do with a ponzi.

OTOH, if difficulty slows down enough that in theory, mining at pb's rates would yield a profit, then what ? If no one ordered anything from today on, it would still take on the order of a year for pbmining to owe its victims more than it collected. But that is not the interesting part. These ponzi's will vanish much sooner than that, because their maximum profit occurs once they collect less new investments through their army of referral whores than they have to pay out in mining revenues. So how close are we to that ?

By June 25th they claimed to have sold 833 Th/s.
By  october that had risen to 2.5 PH
Today its 4.2 PH

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are selling far faster than they are paying out. And that of course, is why they still pay out. Not just because they can, but because it still makes sense to maximize their loot. Using that as "proof" for saying this isnt a ponzi, is either utterly ignorant, or more likely, intellectually dishonest.

Since I have a hard time believing you dont think its bizarre they sold more hashrate than asicminer, yet have not shown a single datacenter picture, a single asic vendor endorsement, a single signed block, a single payout that can be traced back to a mining pool instead of a coinmixer,.. Im going by the latter. Im preaching to the choir, you, like most referral whores and previous PPT operators, know its a scam, you're just trying to cash in on it. Shame on you.

What you fail to grasp is that whole point of my chart is trying to predict where difficulty is headed, given certain assumptions. Not to calculate when miners are no longer operationally profitable, you dont need a chart for  that (and certainly not one without BTC value on one of its axis). You just calculate the BTC denominated electricity cost of your miner, and voila.

Consider zero electricity cost. According to your chart, network would go to inifinty and an individual miner would be willing to pay any price for hardware. Dont you see thats nonsensical?

You agree the cost has to be included and thus you remove it in your chart?
One can argue over what a reasonable break even period is (i assumed 1 year which is probably too long), and how much the hardware really costs, but its not never and nothing

The hardware represents an investment. You have to write that off and you cant just ignore that. You cakculate it as if people would buy $10000 prismas  today. Or buy amhash at any price. If i already had a $100000 prisma i wouldnt unplug it as long as it earns more than it costs in electricity, but i wouldnt have bought one and no one is going to invest in hardware that cant break even on its investment even if its operationally profitable

Probably because i typed one 6  too many.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765407.0

Hydro666, which operates in the same place using the same hydro power, charges its customers $79 per kW per month. That works out to ~$0.11/KwH but is fully inclusive "Our pricing is fully inclusive (space, power, cooling, security, remote power reboot etc.)". And of course includes their profit margin. So its fair to assume KnC pays significantly less that than in electricity alone.

Id also assume KnC mines on different pools to reduce the variance.

Depends. An "honest ponzi", if there is such thing, in the sense that they would keep paying virtual mining revenue and not change the fees is likely not going to be very profitable, and possibly even a big loss for the operator. But if you play by the ponzi 101 rules and stop paying out once you receive less revenue from new sign ups than you have to pay out in fake revenue, clearly then it would be hugely profitable.

Your link doesnt say cex.io anywhere, if he is the director, he isnt exactly bragging about it.

Then again, they do seem to have added a lot of contact info, and Im going to assume its legitimate. Ill update their rating.

I cant tell you when but I can guarantee you that we will hit well beyond those speeds:



Consider ~0.7J/GH is achievable now and 0.5-0.2J/GH just around the corner (0.1 next year if you believe Bitfury, KnC or spondoolies),
Also consider that $400/TH is available today, and Spondoolies are talking of <$100/GH next next year

That we know one of them really exists ?

At first glance, I see no proof of mining. No public mining addresses, no convincing pictures. They claim to be mining with GPU's, so lack of endorsement I think can be forgiven. They list a postal address, but I cant verify if its legitimate and their domain is once again whoisguard protected. So far, Id say thats enough reason to avoid it.

You might want to inquire first how amhash would handle the disappearing of hashie. Is there a mechanism in place to prove ownership and a guarantee by amhash to honor contracts sold through hashie? I have to wonder why they decided on this route, instead of selling directly themselves.

Yeah I can do it on condition you order and pay for another imaginary 2PH for a really low price.
And you agree to my terms that I can adjust mining fees whenever I feel like it.

LOL. Some freebee. Ill give you a PH if you want, I just wont let you cash out .

thx, updated their rating.