Where did you read that?

No. AM missed estimated specs. AM doesn't sell preorders and doesn't guarantee estimated specs. Investors simply asked FC to gaze in to his magic crystal ball and he happened to be wrong just like every single manufacturer to date. Nobody was ripped off or scammed. Only a bunch of disappointed investors.


So you just made up a hypothetical situation and expect AM to get penalized for it?

Please show me a single person complaining about late shipping or used hardware.

Why does AM have less potential for growth? As time goes on and bitcoin becomes more valuable both companies should depreciate in value.

If mpex has so much potential then why has only 1 company ever listed on the exchange since its inception more than 2 years ago? (excluding companies mircea owns)

How can mpex be "valued" at ~1/10th of all bitcoins in circulation when practically nobody uses the exchange?

AM is valued at ~60k btc because that is what people think the company might return in dividends in its lifetime and it's not too unreasonable (AM would only have to mine 0.7% of the remaining 8m btc)

Mpoe is valued at 800k btc because without a continuously increasing value, it would be impossible to convinced people to jump in the quicksand.

I don't think anyone (outside the cult of bitcoin-assets) believes that mpex will touch 800k individual bitcoins let alone profit that much.

If mircea opened a lemonade stand and sold 5 cups of lemonade for $2.50 then his lemonade company would be worth several thousand according to mpex investor logic.

Are you forgetting that asicminer had 60PH worth of wafers to sell as of ~2 months ago? That's probably more than bitfury has ever produced.

Anyways it's pointless to speculate because nobody knows the exact (or even approximate) size of every company.

Maybe use age instead of size?

Source? I haven't seen any serious complaints. Also why 4/10 for size? They have probably manufactured several PH by now. Probably tied with rockminer or lightningasic.

Although I have to agree with notlambchop that size is not a good variable. Not only does size not indicate how reputable a company is, it's nearly impossible to accurately judge.


Same with asicminer and bitfury. At least with those two they didn't sell used HW.


That's absurd. If you buy something and it doesn't specifically say "used" then it is assumed to be new.

We both know that used electronics are worth less than new ones and there is no excuse for bitmain to secretly sell heavily used hardware. And a 90 day warranty doesn't make it any more excusable.

Huge improvement.

Although I would have to disagree that btcgarden has ethics or quality issues. I've heard very little complaints and communication has been top notch.

Also I don't think bitmain should be 10/10 for ethics because they have their own megamine (same size as KNC) and some questionable ethics like selling heavily used hardware.

It might be a good idea to have two separate ratings for ethics and superfarming because some might not see self mining as being unethical (as long as they use their own time and money as well as stay far below 51%)

Or is it because you have nothing to say? I honestly want to know what makes you think it's a good idea to use mpex.

I don't need to demonstrate my claims of impropriety because you are perfectly capable of visiting trilema.com yourself.

Mpex is just a really complicated game mircea invented so he can convince people who lack any knowledge of real world finance to fork over their money. And it's clearly paid off.


You mean like how mpex increased in value when revenue decreased and the value of btc increased?

Every bitcoin stock took a hit due to bitcoins surge in value besides any stock listed on mpex.

Mpex is one of those things that when it all goes to shit and mircea packs up his bags to go live on some tropical island, everyone who "invested" will be surprised that their money is all gone but everyone else will just say no shit.

Really? Because it looks like that is exactly what you are saying. What kind of retarded scam would refuse to take orders from anyone but russians? And limit preorders to a batch 150? Do they need scamming lessons?


How did I lose a bet when it has yet to be resolved? I already agreed to accept a loss if they turn out to be a scam so what's your deal?

Also please let me know when I recommended preordering from xbtec or any other manufacturer. You might notice that I'll "shill" for any company selling hardware from stock for a decent price


Did you take a second to actually read what you wrote? Seriously this is some grade A bullshit.

What does me not prematurely resolving a 0.1btc bet have anything to do with AM chip sales or my dividends?

The reason I made the bet was because I believed that AM chips were capable of less than 1W/gh and I was correct. If I had bet on btcgarden I would have won because their miners can do less than 1w/gh at the wall. Also allied control tested immersion cooled AM chips at 0.6w/gh at the wall so the chips are perfectly capable.

100% shitty stocks is not true because AM and BDD have been successful.

Yes, AM shares were listed on havelock immediately following the peak of the bubble but just about all of the shares were transferred from direct shares and as you know AM has already paid its investors $300 for every share which cost $1 during IPO.

Would you care so much about havelock if they charged a huge registration fee with some sort of recruitment scheme and market manipulation?

According to mircea, the biggest mistake AM made was not listing on his exchange and I think he might be right.

Could you imagine how much AM stock would be worth if it was listed on mpex? Would it be worth 10 times the value of s.mpoe because it has yielded 10 times the amount of dividends? That would mean AM would be worth 8,000,000 btc.

This might help: http://retrocalc.net

Is that what mircea tells you?

That's is like saying nobody joins scientology because people are "too lazy to learn". It's simply bullshit and sounds exactly like an excuse mircea would make up.

The reason nobody uses mpex is because it is a joke plain and simple. If it was useful and not a scam, they wouldn't need to use a referral scheme with massive rewards to perpetuate it.

Look at havelock for example, sure it may consist of 99% shitty stocks, but people use it because it is useful and works well. Not because they are paid X amount of money from recruiting Y amount of idiots.


Can I see the block records? I've never seen publicly verifiable records regarding mpex. Especially nothing to suggest that the ~20K btc traded per month does not only consist of mircea trading with himself.


You seem to think having an exchange run by an egomaniac is required. Fun fact: It's not.

Outside of mirceas cult of financiology his behavior would be completely unacceptable for a CEO of a company "worth" ~$500m.


Again, neither. Why is stock manipulation acceptable to you?


No it's not. NYSE and other legitimate exchanges earn money from the services they provide.

Mpex earns money via a referral scheme (and a tiny bit from their service). Referral schemes have been used for decades to advertise scams because they simply work.


Nope. Asicminer has given out more in dividends than satoshidice was sold for. And the revenue from satoshidice was weak at best.

But even asicminer is not valued anywhere near s.mpoe. Even though AM has given out more than 10 times as much btc from dividends, it is still valued 1/10th that of s.mpoe.


Can you show me the publicly verifiable info? Can you prove that the trading does not consist almost entirely of mirceas stock manipulation?

Do you honestly believe the values of mpex stocks are at all representative of their worth?

Please explain:

MPOE: 1.7% annual yield
BBET: 1.7%
NSA: 0%
MG: 0%

I know that you will probably just say that mpex consists of only the most bullish "investors" who don't care the slightest about the companies Mirceas ability to bring in revenue/profit and you could be right.

I just want to know why stocks on mpex are traded at less than 2% yearly return. There is no reasonable explanation other than stock manipulation.

Investing 101 says that a stock should be valued relative to the amount of profit it can possibly generate. Is there any way possible that mpoe generates 1 million btc? What about half that amount? Can they even earn 1/10th of that in their lifetime?

If you don't want to debate then you shouldn't have made such ridiculous unfounded claims.

It's painfully obvious that they are using AM chips and not avalons or a1s. You can look at the photos and see that each board has 20 chips and there are 10 boards. I'm pretty sure avalon chips cannot do 10GH per chip and they are definitely not capable of below 1w/gh considering they are 0.9w/gh at the chip level while overclocked.

Please tell me why they would buy a large batch of AM chips, then proceed to make avalon/a1 miners? That makes no sense.

I can't answer your question as to why they haven't shipped miners because I don't speak for xbtec but there are a number of reasons that could explain it.

If their miners are functional I see no reason for them to not ship/sell them.

cool
ko͞ol/
verb
gerund or present participle: cooling

    become or cause to become less hot.

I'm not going to argue about the semantics. But every method of cooling you can think of involves removing heat via air (or sometimes liquid).

They are not dragon miners.

They also said in the first post of this thread that they will be building a massive datacenter. Not sure what you are surprised about.

Removing heat = cooling.

Every air cooled datacenter needs X amount of CFM to keep Y KW worth of hardware at Z degrees.

What kind of blower is that?

Any idea of how much KW it might be able to cool?

I'm using AS5 for my cpu. Works well.

Here's a nice comparison of thermal pastes: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-performance-benchmark,3616.html

I agree it's a good idea to move towards a more mathematical system althpugh I'm not sure about size and ethics being variables.

What exactly is size and what kind of metric will you use for ethics?