You misquoted, that is Gandalf, not me.

It says it right there in black and white.

This is for a refund you requested.
It does not say "...this is part of your refund. (1 of 10)"

If you cash it, you are signifying you accept their payment + 5%.

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Gandalf, if they weren't worried about the legal stuff they wouldn't offer you 5% for free. They are giving you 5% on top of the value of the miner as a settlement.

If they had only given you the cost of the miner and no 5% it would have been clear they were playing hardball. They are instead just seemingly playing "dead possum" and hoping (to the love of God) that their customers are stupid enough to accept their 5% (which is actually almost -90% by the way).

If things go tits up and everyone decided to pursue other options, then HashFast is almost certainly done for. (Unless they can find 10 times their capital)

Batch 2 through 4 can kiss their own asses goodbye as a result.

People are either going to live up to HashFasts [I speculate] expectations, or they will be smarter than that.


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Accepting a check with a written notice as to what it is for is not arbitration. You don't get to "invent" what you think the check is for. It is clearly spelled out what it is for. If you stand there in front of the judge stating your own arbitrary ideas and concepts about what the check was for and thought of using their own settlement money to persue a resolved dispute which you accepted....well...don't be surprised if you are laughed out of court.

You're not Dumb or Blonde Gandalf, so stop trying to lure idiots into the fire.

Based on your example of proper logic....

You paid 50 BTC to HashFast for a device.
HashFast failed to give you the device in a reasonable period. (x3)
HashFast then gave you the equivalent USD value of the Miner rather than the original BTC.

Hence, you can probably guesstimate...that may be why they put the breaks on "raising the price" of their Miners a few days ago.

Shrewd move.

That would be fraud. You would have to first check with the letter as to what the intent is behind the check.

Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.

Holy CRAP!

On what basis are they refusing to send customers property (BTC) back to their rightful owners?

Ought to get a judge to legally freeze that huge cache of BTC.

27 MILLION!?

Edit: Nevermind, I am an idiot. I didn't realize they already transferred it out to "unknown" parts of the blockchain.

Edit2: If you look through the transactions you can see some end points still are in [large cache's of] BTC. Whether it remains in hashfasts hands or not is up to an investigator.

Are you going to cash it?

What are the recommended settings?

(I forgot what it was)

Is there anyone in Batch 2 through 4 that is happy with the latest turn of events? Or are you just waiting your turn?

Whats your game plan Batch 2 through 4 customers?

You could also subpoena Hashfast records and hire an investigator to comb through HashFasts BTC transactions log to figure out what happened to the BTC.

If any of it was left in storage in some wallet then that means HashFast is able to issue (you) a refund. It also means that if they elect to change the remaining (assumed property) to cash they would be seriously enriching themselves.

If you got a crafty lawyer who'd bleed your pockets dry by hiring all the right people, you could certainly point to a HashFast owned BTC wallet and state they have the property in their possession to return it. Making the USD refund a moot point.

I recall vaguely someone pointed out a BTC address had 2 or 3 thousand BTC in it. Someone else commented that was probably enough to refund just their order. (Somewhere earlier in this thread)

So if there is that kind of evidence laying around, it would mean HashFast has not converted the entirety of it's customers property to USD.

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I recall the earlier conversation was somewhere around the spat that a rep had alleged something about black mailing. (I don't recall)

HashFast would have to prove that they didn't store the BTC somewhere. They would have to prove that they converted it at an exchange. In very early transactions, they had BTC addresses for recieving BTC. With no exchange in between. Only later did they establish an intermediary to convert it for them automatically.

What HashFast does with it's BTC is it's business. They may elect to send it to an exchange to convert it for them. But when a BTC paying customer pays with BTC to a BTC wallet, it's their (the customers) property until they recieve the delivery. If they request a refund before delivery then, HashFast has to turn over that BTC property sans any decisions they might have dabbled in with customer property.

What Hashfast appears to have done is elected to convert BTC to USD at an unknown date and time. Apparently [I speculate] using customer property to dabble at exchanges. This is a big no-no as they can't touch funds with a pre-order until they are delivered.

They never delivered, for some early customers there was no automatic exchange to USD via a payment processor and they have received notice that the customer intends to have their property returned to them. So the customer shouldn't care what HashFast decided to do internally with their property as long as the property is returned to them in the same quantity and likeness.

All this is HashFasts problem. The customer(s) who fit a specific scenario had plenty of [public and private] assurances that their property would be returned to them if they received no delivery.

Now HashFast is claiming (by actions) that they apparently took it upon themselves to convert customer property to a cash form and are offering an insignificant fraction of the properties worth in USD.

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In my opinion, HashFast has to prove and show records that they conducted a transaction with a third party and converted those funds (at their own election) to USD.

Then once proven, they (the customer) should tell them tough luck on what they speculated with that property. This is the property I have given you, what you did with it is none of my buisiness. Return what I gave you after you have defaulted on your delivery.

End of story.

Others who used a payment processor are probably out of luck. (Assuming HashFast did prove they converted it through the payment processor into USD and the customer has receipts from the payment processor of the transaction being conducted and converted.)

I actually think their lawyer probably advised them to settle those BTC cases with checks.

I figure they thought people would be stupid enough to go out and cash it right away without a second thought. (Hey, it was worth a shot right?)

The bigger question is whether they even intend to honor the MPP. If not, then you can probably go to court and show definitively they are acting in "bad faith". Which means, that no matter how innocent your purchase was, they had no intention to actually perform. If you can prove that much, you stand a good chance of opening pandoras box on their TOA and your BTC.

The businessweek article citing facts is a good indication they intentionally used customer funds in their development of the product. Something that I don't think any individuals openly agreed to. They only agreed to a retail purchase of a product as far as I can see.

If they bail on even the MPP that [some] customers still want, there is a good chance you can break down any argument that they acted "in good faith".

One word: Clusterfuck!

Alright, just remember he was an AirForce pilot. (or somewhere thereabouts)

They spent thousands of dollars showing him how to blow shit up.

When you ask him to "build" it goes against his agile abilities to rain death and destruction.

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So when you see a miner puff some magic smoke, it means he is learning a new path of building things out of new parts rather than blowing shit up.

Just be glad there was no shrapnel or napalm. PCB's burn and melt, but they rarely mame.

Please, don't offend the feces by placing them together in the same paragraph.

The feces does not feel compelled to lie and dance around facts in an attempt to confuse folks.
The feces feels no rage towards customers though sometimes is warm depending on the season.
The feces does not experience malice.
The feces does not experience shame. (well neither does Josh, one thing in common)

The feces feeds trees, the grass and makes the world go round.

Josh, stammers into rage filled tirades when confronted on facts, sometimes smiles, often confuses and delays his customers. When he finally serves a purpose, the time has already passed.

--Can you imagine all the fights he has caused with peoples wives/husbands while he delayed peoples pre-paid miners?
--Can you imagine all the self loathing he inspired in people, who endured, when they bought into the pipe dream that turned into a nightmare?
--Can you see the scope of the endless frustration and disappointments as things dragged on and others with less...provided more?

Don't diss the feces my friends. It has its part in nature. Scammers/liars do not. They serve no purpose. They make nothing in nature grow or blossom. They just rip people off and leave a trail of tears and anger.

When you see Josh with his swagger, just nod your head his way...in a sort of buddha inspired "knowing" and pity. He's doing the best he can muster.

Can someone draw up a basic letter for folks to use if they are receiving unsolicited USD refunds/or a settlement offer that refutes the return of BTC property?

It's probably time to send them notice that their settlement offer is "refused".

By the way, it should go without saying that you should not cash your check. It is a settlement offer. If you cash it, you automatically lose all standing in court.

So you are openly asserting that they are not honoring their MPP?

Sounds like a very serious claim if it is the case. 

It appears they are trying to entice their own customers with a lessor refund settlement. (75% -> 90% off)

When you see the check, just put squarely in your mind that they are ignoring your requests and are actively looking to settle your legitimate refund request with a much smaller amount in the wrong currency/property. (BitCoins)

I am sorry to  inform you that "a company" may have abandoned their customers and the requested refunds (on your terms) after their acknowledged failure to deliver (in writting). It is regrettable.

There will be no refunds, now disperse. You signed away all rights to a proper BTC refund.  <fires tear gas into the huddled customers>



Disperse, you peaceful occupiers of this thread! If "a company" does not say anything contrary to this statement, then it is probably self evident and true? (probably)

Mods, please spray them down in pepper spray....I mean bitcoin transaction "freedom"...taken to an extreme (by "a company"). [/joke]

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Note:
2 days until the 15th.

I wipe my ass with that. (converted to tissue rolls, the cheap kind, not the expensive kind )

Hmm, case hasn't been overturned....and it has been 15 days.

I am guessing they were out of luck in getting it overturned. Who will be the next successful litigant?