so awesome  |
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ein paar Bullenfallen hatten wir ja schon...  |
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Bitcoin ist unreguliert und eine Katastrophe weil jenseits der Zentralbanken, und die Regierungen dürfen das nicht zulassen! Das wird zum totalen Zusammenbruch des Systems führen! Dachte erst, das ist ein Scherzartikel, aber anscheinend nicht. Anscheinend stampfen sie in Eile eine regulierte digitale Währung aus dem Boden: http://www.bitmint.com/ |
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lolwtf? Bitcoin like Sarajevo 1914 leading to WW1? No way this article is without an ironic wink.  |
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The reason I think old miners will vote for less reward is that the voting is intended to be valid for everybody, in a similar way difficulty is calculated. The thought is that old miners will most likely already have a decent stash of coins and will more likely be interested in preserving or increasing the value of the stash than accumulating more.
Hmm I don't think this will work. We'd have some kind of prisoners' dilemma situation between the old miners here. Old Miner Joe would be tempted to not forgo his reward "for the common good" when all other old miners are supposed to, just because it's written down on the Golden Plaque of Ye Olde Miners' Guild or something. How can we have a decentralized currency with stable prices? This is what I call "The Trillion Dollar Question", and I have spent hundreds of hours thinking and writing about this topic. I wrote a paper about it, and I'll be on a panel at the bitcoin conference in San Jose in May to talk about it.
Thanks. Interesting, but for this thread I'm interested in a solution that is a true and native single crypto-currency. Maybe just for the fun of it. For the moment I can think of these types of transactions: 1) User buys StableCoins from exchange => money supply should grow. 2) User puts StableCoins into their savings account (paper wallet etc) => money supply should grow. 3) User spends StableCoins for goods and services, or gambles => money supply should remain constant. 4) User gets StableCoins from their savings account intending to spend => money supply should shrink. 5) User sells StableCoins on an exchange => money supply should shrink. Perhaps, at least in the beginning, users can optionally specify with each transaction which of these types it is. The system would be self-learning. Sure, users can lie, but... this data would be compared against intrinsically determined metrics as well, contradictions would be found, the rate of manipulations would probably also remain constant over time and be filtered out as statistical noise as well. |
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somememe.jpg "Babbles about small state -- First thing she does is start war at Falkland Islands".
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Sunday schools must have had quite an impact on you Americans.  |
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kann nix ankreuzen, weil bei mir schwankt's immer so zwischen 3 und 3000, so je nachdem, wozu mich der tageskurs grad zwingt  |
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Ripple ist weder bis jetzt komplett Open Source (der Server-Code), noch ist ein WhitePaper draußen. Auch wenn ich den Leuten zutraue, dass das alles Hand und Fuß hat. Das Sicherheitsmodell bei Ripple ist allerdings deshalb sparsamer, weil es weniger Privatsphäre erlaubt. Es "kostet" quasi, einen (neuen) Account zu erstellen, und es ist unbequem. Darum kann man echte Accounts/Benutzer hernehmen zur Konsensfindung, anstatt der Ansatz "One CPU (cycle) one vote" wie bei Bitcoin. Allerdings ist halt dann mein Account und meine Transaktionen ein öffentliches Buch. Eine Schatzkammer für Datenkraken und wen das sonst noch alles interessieren könnte.  Cool, vielen Dank schonmal für den Tip...
Ich werde das die Tage mal testen.
Gebt uns 2 Wochen Zeit, dann sollte das für den nächsten Stammtisch laufen... :-)
juchhei, freu mich auch schon. |
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haken ist auch dass du deine fiat-euros dann ja wieder rauskriegen und möglichst wieder in btc stecken willst.
ob's beim gleichen exchange später billiger wird als beim andern is glücksache und eher unwahrscheinlich
und fiat-überweisungen dauern halt, bis dahin kann sich der kurs dann auch wieder ändern.
aber für einmalige abhebungen, wenn man eh fiat braucht, kann man natürlich den grad besten exchange benutzen, klar.
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As with all environmental arguments, this boils down to externalities. You might be very satisfied by the great energy based currency you have, but other people living in Micronesia who are on the receiving end of the higher sea levels would beg to differ. There are many indisputable externalities: increasing electricity price, higher proportion of dirty sources like coal since renewables are limited etc. These other people who have nothing to do with bitcoin have no economic leverage to control it's adoption, so bitcoin can be (moderately) successful despite being an environmental catastrophe.
It also puts some perspective into the whole "but the financial system is wasteful too". At least the money the banksters steal goes into nice yachts, mansions and impressive office buildings. I would rather they didn't steal, but at least it creates some employment and trickledown, and when we get rid of the thieves we can repurpose the buildings to some constructive goal. So I say let's fuck the banksters without trashing the world in the process. Money is just information and there's no real need to go back to the gold age (stone age). that's right, money is just information. However, it has to be secured, in one way or another. We also expend lots of resources on door locks. We don't live in a perfect world unfortunately. The consensus system Ripple is supposed to use could be a nice alternative, if it works and if it is robust, which is not clear imho.
I think it is robust but its secret is that it works on a higher level: there's much less privacy, it knows about accounts. It's costly and inconvenient to create an account. That's part of their security model. |
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Binding to some however defined external (and complex) property will increase complexity and induce/increase the possibility of failure regarded to design flaws.
What is "stable in value"? While btc crashed against the dollar, I saw no significant changes in the relation to ltc/ppc.
To get it "stable in value" against the dollar you need a market capitalization in dollar much bigger in relation to the availible speculation capital in dollar. And even then there could be hedging.
I don't mean stable against the dollar, I mean stable in itself, as if StableCoin was the national currency of StableCountry. This can be achieved if its money supply can be made to grow (or shrink) by its actual adoption and usage. It will be traded freely at exchanges for other currencies (or baskets of goods, BigMacs or whatever), but with the aim to be stable in exchange value (if the other currency is stable too). The problem of course is we have no economic metrics other than its blockchain (or whatever method is used as a distributed accounting database). There's little connection between the transaction rate and the monetary velocity. I can move money between wallets or I can pay using a PayPal like service, thereby introducing false or hiding real transactions from the chain. This is not simply statistical noise because high worth speculators will abuse your mechanism on purpose to move the exchange rate. Nevermind that there's very little connection between the exchange rate and the monetary velocity.
To control the exchange rate you need to watch it directly, because it's influenced by external factors: fundamental supply and demand, economic cycles, trade deficits relative to the fiat world, speculators, etc.
The goal is to eliminate external dependencies and statistical noise and to come to faithful predictions about actual adoption and use by internal metrics alone, like amount and volume of transactions. Maybe more metrics can be found. Of course people move wallets around, but this should also even out in the long term. Transaction fees may be able to discourage all too much manipulation. They will have to be fixed to a reasonable level. The exchange rate is intended to be boring and not attract speculators. Miners can control the money supply using a voting mechanism.
They simply write how much reward there should be for finding a block. Newcomers will most likely enter a high value, old miners most likely enter zero.
So the inflation automatically adjusts to the hashrate the newcomers are able to provide which should be correlated to economic growth,
This can be combined with a demurrage scheme where coins decay into nothing if the currency shrinks. (If the hashrate goes down for example)
Sounds interesting; I originally did not intend a voting mechanism, but if metrics cannot be discovered automatically, why not let money supply growth be voted upon somewhat democratically. I don't understand why old miners would vote for no new coins for themselves though. i have a theory, and i know that im going to be attacked for this, that bitcoin is so volatile in part because its deflationary. Basically the mentality goes something like this. I should buy bitcoin because its deflationary so if it becomes widely adopted it should increase in value forever. Of course if this was the case everyone should just buy bitcoins and never work again. but then bitcoin wouldn't ever buy anything if that happened since nothing would be produced to be bought. So it both makes sense for the individual to buy bitcoins and horde them forever but it doesnt make sense for society as a group to do this. The net result of this is a series of speculative booms as everyone realizes they need to get on the train to infinity, but crashes when they becomes obviously over valued.
If this theory is accurate what i would do to address it is build in slow, steady, predictable inflation. This would have the added advantage of forcing inflationcoin users to use inflationcoin for what it is intended to be used for, trade, not a get rich quick scheme and not a savings account. After all we have gold coins that work wonderfully as savings vehicle but terribly as a media of exchange, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Build a coin that compliments gold and doesn't attempt to replace it.
Yes, Bitcoin is an experiment, and the economics are part of that. I don't think deflation is bad per se, it doesn't create depressions. The problem is rather that it may continue to result in high volatility, even if Bitcoin has satisfied and occupied its maximum possible market share and adoption. Bubble and burst cycles if you will. Maybe people will get used to it and learn to make better predictions in the future, which will even things out. But we don't know. That's why it's an experiment. StableCoin would be StableCoin and not "Inflatacoin" or "Deflatacoin" (Bitcoin), so it may gain acceptance with both merchants and buyers, and maybe also savers who just want to store the information of the value of their labor without speculation and risk. |
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you mostly have everything in one account or Ripple address, you can't create any arbitrary number of them like in Bitcoin. Theoretically possible, but costly and very inconvenient. It's basically part of their security model that you can't do it so easily.
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If Ripple makes it big, then it's good for Bitcoin as it's quite prominently placed in their list of currencies. However, Chris Larsen does poke at Bitcoin and does see XRPs as Crypto 2.0: https://ripple.com/blog/interview-with-chris-larsen-co-founder-and-ceo-of-opencoin-inc/And the "intrinsic value" of Bitcoin does largely come from its usability as a global borderless non-bureaucratic medium of value transfer, so XRPs potentially do eat a lot of market share of that. The only thing that Bitcoin has that XRP doesn't is the decentralized issuance model via proof-of-work, and that it enables much more anonymity and privacy. Everything in a Ripple account is quite public. But I bet most regular users out there, be it granny having "nothing to hide", or those who send everything of themselves to Apple, Google and Facebook anyway, just couldn't care less. |
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Hey, hab ein bisschen Angst hier zu posten... Nur Heros hier  Also ich bin noch Blutjung was BitCoin angeht. Ich wurde am 16.04 aus der Martix abgekoppelt und ich war einfach Buff. Als ich denn ganzen Spaß realisiert habe saß ich glaubig so Ungefähr 2 Minuten mit offenem Mund da und habe gestaunt und mich gefragt wie das an mit vorbei gehen konnte. Bin eigentlich schon eine lange Zeit im Internet und war echt verblüfft ... naja wie schon gesagt "WIE das an mir vorbei gehen konnte". ~Muh keine Angst, wir beißen nicht. Zumindest nicht an Wochentagen. joa ich glaub so ging's fast jedem hier der bitcoin entdeckt hat... man kann nie early genug adoptiert haben.  |
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Today's money is already digital.
All larger transactions go though banks.
And about what's still being paid with cash, the elites couldn't care less if you buy chewing gums or toilet paper.
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