Can we talk about this instant transaction thing. How does it supposedly work? In the world of crypto there are only 2 ways of doing transactions instantly. A trust based system or centralization. Has dark somehow over turned the metaphorical laws of gravity in the world of crypto or do they use one of those two. If they use one of those two what is the justification?

not sure you know what that word means

new monero thread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642 xmr vs drk

I explained it in the xmr vs dark thread. If you are interested. 

So I guess I'll get this thing started.

The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so damn inelegant. It's like, instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.

Its just so damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.

That's really all I have to say. Also I just want to put this here. My nomination for dark mascot.



Successfully keeping the juice contained since 2014, one eye patch and glass eye at a time.

*edit* let me add a better explanation of why i made this comment so people dont think im just name calling.

Coins need to be mixed so you guys implement coinjoin at the protocol level. But then you cant just have every random user hosting coinjoin sessions because then you would open an attack vector for troll coinjoin hosts so you make master nodes. But then you cant just have anyone joining in the coinjoin because you could dos by requesting transactions but not signing so you implement the idea of collateral to be part of the session. But then now you have no incentive for the masternodes to form so you give them part of the collateral. It wouldnt be mixed enough if you did this at the transaction level so you have the blockchain tumbling peoples coins all the time. This is ridiculously expensive so you greatly subsidize the darksend transactions inorder to hide the huge cost of anonymity in your system. Now you have to worry about people trying to send transactions to each other through darksend so you have to try to come up with some clever mechanism to avoid this problem.

If dark had a mascot:



Please let me know if you understand the joke.

Perhaps the best option is to have it un moderated and people can just add trolls to their ignore list.

+1

I would very much like to see a well moderated dark vs monero thread, where all of the nay sayers from each thread could go instead of in the dark and monero threads. Can you set up a thread to have multiple moderators?

Sometimes ill be having a "discussion" with people and it really feels like they are failing the turing test.

That sounds awesome. Mr pony already on top of things like usual.

k. well once again thanks for taking the time to reply to my OP.

Why is EVERYTHING a conspiracy with you guys. I mean I do believe conspiracies are real, but good lord it's just non stop with you guys, you cant formulate a single sentence without alluding to a conspiracy. It's exhausting. We don't do that. Even though there is massive amounts of money and power that stands to be gained from the proliferation of your ideas for certain wealthy and powerful interests, we don't accuse every dissenting comment to be the product of state shills or shills for the green industry cronies. A little reciprocity would be nice.

you guys are always pointing out how the project is basically unfunded and you do great work under those conditions no doubt. but i just want to do what i can to help with this situation for 2 reasons, for the good of monero, but also because you guys should be compensated for the work you do. and the thing is, i just dont think that panhandling is ever going to get you the sort of consistent and appropriate compensation you should be getting, and monero should be getting.

Sure. I mean if that's the case with all of you guys than thats fine. But i figured that maybe one or two of you did contract work and we could hire those one or two. In the event that all of you have very traditional employment relationships, than its not necessarily out of the question that we could possibly raise enough money to fund you for a year. if we didnt, than no harm done, everyone gets their money back, thats the beauty of crowd funding.

Though if a 1 year + commitment was required that would lend some weight to what opennux was saying.

i must be a grandpa. i registered my account in 2010

We match what their current employment is paying them for like 3 months and only ask is that they work on the project full time (i.e. 40 hours a week) for 3 months and that would be too hard of an obligation to keep? So difficult that we would risk them breaking their promise? That doesn't sound right to me.

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Thats what you call a positive feedback loop

Yea hydrogen is dumb but I am pretty excited about super capacitor electric cars though. Oman i cant wait to have a sports car with a super capacitor in it. 0-60 in sub 3 seconds with no transmission. we will be able to drive cars that take off like fighter jets on an air craft carrier.