[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Joshuar]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

[1714729003]

1714729003

[1714729003]

1714729003

[Anon136]

hash the destination address + the block header of the previous block

Two problems here. One is the the destination address is one time and the sender can change it with a different choice of r. The other is that you could just wait for another block.

Something like this might be possible based on the key image. That's something I've thought about a bit for another purpose.

Well thats all i really hoped to accomplish was to see if i could get the devs thinking about the general principal in a more abstract sense. if you already are than awesome.

*edit* also, 0.003 

[smooth]

*edit* i was thinking the other day, if monero's anonymity is not sufficient for your needs you can always run monero through a tumbler like bitcoin fog. its crazy to think about the difficulty of tracking monero that's been through a tumbler.

Yes that is absolutely true and an advantage over btc mixers would be that the mixer logs would be useless since the mixer itself wouldn't know where the coins came from. With a coinjoin-style mixer the mixer wouldn't even need to know where the coins are going either. With the former you still have the usual issue of the mixer stealing your coins and with the latter you have a simultaneity requirement and timing attacks (as with regular coinjoin). The denominations naturally used in Monero would help with some of the other coinjoin weaknesses (relationships between inputs and output values).

This would provide protection against the threat that someday the "crypto is cracked" and anonymity broken. But then again in the normal course of transactions through merchants, p2p transactions, loans, gambling, etc. there is a lot of natural mixing too.

You can easily add off-chain mixing to a coin that provides on-chain mixing but you can't easily do the opposite.

EDIT: I guess you could pre-derive a one-time destination address even with a receive-and-send mixer, which would remove the recipient address from the mixer's logs too. Currently there is no tooling to send to a precomputed one-time address but I don't see a reason why it couldn't work. Also, I guess there are some issues with r being per-tx not per-output, although I suppose that could be changed to enable this, at the cost of some added space.

[iCEBREAKER]

*edit* i was thinking the other day, if monero's anonymity is not sufficient for your needs you can always run monero through a tumbler like bitcoin fog. its crazy to think about the difficulty of tracking monero that's been through a tumbler.

Yes that is absolutely true and an advantage over btc mixers would be that the mixer logs would be useless since the mixer itself wouldn't know where the coins came from. With a coinjoin-style mixer the mixer wouldn't even need to know where the coins are going either. With the former you still have the usual issue of the mixer stealing your coins and with the latter you have a simultaneity requirement and timing attacks (as with regular coinjoin). The denominations naturally used in Monero would help with some of the other coinjoin weaknesses (relationships between inputs and output values).

This would provide protection against the threat that someday the "crypto is cracked" and anonymity broken. But then again in the normal course of transactions through merchants, p2p transactions, loans, gambling, etc. there is a lot of natural mixing too.

You can easily add off-chain mixing to a coin that provides on-chain mixing but you can't easily do the opposite.

EDIT: I guess you could pre-derive a one-time destination address even with a receive-and-send mixer, which would remove the recipient address from the mixer's logs too. Currently there is no tooling to send to a precomputed one-time address but I don't see a reason why it couldn't work. Also, I guess there are some issues with r being per-tx not per-output, although I suppose that could be changed to enable this, at the cost of some added space.

Sounds good.  Let's add trustless FluffyNodes to the roadmap!

[GingerAle]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

[5w00p]

I made a short animation of the Monero logo in 3D and I just uploaded it to Youtube.

Nothing spectacular, but I made the logo in Solidworks and I am just a beginning student, so it isn't too bad, considering. 

Link to video: https://youtu.be/JO8J_epTPo0

[saddambitcoin]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowed funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

[G2M]

... Vice ...

LOL, i was actually in Vice NYC with one of their PPM's chatting Monero up. She said she'll talk to the motherboard guy about it. This was months ago, maybe it's time to ask again

What's a PPM?

Alex Pasternack is the Motherboard editor I believe. alexp at motherboard dot tv

Sir, he's referred to as noodle in my parts!

also, post production manager = ppm

[Drhiggins]

So what ever happened to cryptocoins-dice.com   Did they just steal all the funds and skip town?

[smooth]

So what ever happened to cryptocoins-dice.com   Did they just steal all the funds and skip town?

Yes

[iCEBREAKER]

So what ever happened to cryptocoins-dice.com   Did they just steal all the funds and skip town?

Yes

As if you really had to guess.  They totally pulled a Friedcat.

[Drhiggins]

So what ever happened to cryptocoins-dice.com   Did they just steal all the funds and skip town?

Yes

As if you really had to guess.  They totally pulled a Friedcat.

Well I made about 25 XMR off that site in a quick 10 days. Then my Spidey senses kicked in and said get the F$#@ out. 
Listening to my gut instinct rarely fails me.  Well karma is a bitch and they will get what's coming to them.  Feel for anyone that lost XMR or other coins.

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

I definitely think there is some value to the crowd funding model. People dont know what they are getting from a random donation. They dont know whether they effected anything. Maybe if they hadnt donated nothing would have been any different. Maybe the devs would have accomplished exactly as much as if they hadnt donated. With a crowd funding campaign we could do something like, if we are able to raise X resources by Y date than these three devs will be able to work full time on monero for 6 months rather than as a side project. Or something like this. Then contributors know what they are purchasing, rather than just some nebulous idea of maybe monero will be made better. Additionally it gives people a goal that they can push for, people can say look we only need 1,000 more monero before we reach the goal. They can track the progress. People have conversations about it and so follow the progress in a way that they dont with just people giving random donations when ever. Its definitely not the same.

[wpalczynski]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

I definitely think there is some value to the crowd funding model. People dont know what they are getting from a random donation. They dont know whether they effected anything. Maybe if they hadnt donated nothing would have been any different. Maybe the devs would have accomplished exactly as much as if they hadnt donated. With a crowd funding campaign we could do something like, if we are able to raise X resources by Y date than these three devs will be able to work full time on monero for 6 months rather than as a side project. Or something like this. Then contributors know what they are purchasing, rather than just some nebulous idea of maybe monero will be made better. Additionally it gives people a goal that they can push for, people can say look we only need 1,000 more monero before we reach the goal. They can track the progress. People have conversations about it and so follow the progress in a way that they dont with just people giving random donations when ever. Its definitely not the same.

Something like this becomes more feasible with the increasing Monero price.

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

I definitely think there is some value to the crowd funding model. People dont know what they are getting from a random donation. They dont know whether they effected anything. Maybe if they hadnt donated nothing would have been any different. Maybe the devs would have accomplished exactly as much as if they hadnt donated. With a crowd funding campaign we could do something like, if we are able to raise X resources by Y date than these three devs will be able to work full time on monero for 6 months rather than as a side project. Or something like this. Then contributors know what they are purchasing, rather than just some nebulous idea of maybe monero will be made better. Additionally it gives people a goal that they can push for, people can say look we only need 1,000 more monero before we reach the goal. They can track the progress. People have conversations about it and so follow the progress in a way that they dont with just people giving random donations when ever. Its definitely not the same.

Something like this becomes more feasible with the increasing Monero price.

Thats what you call a positive feedback loop

[smooth]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

I definitely think there is some value to the crowd funding model. People dont know what they are getting from a random donation. They dont know whether they effected anything. Maybe if they hadnt donated nothing would have been any different. Maybe the devs would have accomplished exactly as much as if they hadnt donated. With a crowd funding campaign we could do something like, if we are able to raise X resources by Y date than these three devs will be able to work full time on monero for 6 months rather than as a side project. Or something like this. Then contributors know what they are purchasing, rather than just some nebulous idea of maybe monero will be made better. Additionally it gives people a goal that they can push for, people can say look we only need 1,000 more monero before we reach the goal. They can track the progress. People have conversations about it and so follow the progress in a way that they dont with just people giving random donations when ever. Its definitely not the same.

I agree with the crowdfunding model. I'd add that kickstarter can provide a lot more exposure than just using an escrow but that also requires promoting the campaign to get much value from it.

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

As I've said before, and i will probably say it again in the future. If we ever want to do a kickstarter type crowd funding campaign I continue to be more than happy to escrow it.

No need to do a kickstarter, just donate directly to devs!
http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/

All of these people agree: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame

I definitely think there is some value to the crowd funding model. People dont know what they are getting from a random donation. They dont know whether they effected anything. Maybe if they hadnt donated nothing would have been any different. Maybe the devs would have accomplished exactly as much as if they hadnt donated. With a crowd funding campaign we could do something like, if we are able to raise X resources by Y date than these three devs will be able to work full time on monero for 6 months rather than as a side project. Or something like this. Then contributors know what they are purchasing, rather than just some nebulous idea of maybe monero will be made better. Additionally it gives people a goal that they can push for, people can say look we only need 1,000 more monero before we reach the goal. They can track the progress. People have conversations about it and so follow the progress in a way that they dont with just people giving random donations when ever. Its definitely not the same.

I agree with the crowdfunding model. I'd add that kickstarter can provide a lot more exposure than just using an escrow but that also requires promoting the campaign to get much value from it.

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

[smooth]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.