Are you pretending that other people are pretending that?  It doesn't even make sense.  Why would someone pretend that countries want a nuclear Armageddon, and if that's what NATO wanted, why wouldn't it of already happened?

Retaliating for what? Ukraine has been getting tanks, AFV/IFV, artillery, SAM and other missiles, and a bunch of other stuff from NATO countries for many months now. But sending some additional tanks now would justify a nuclear response? Rhetorical question BTW. It wouldn't. Trying to spin into "Ukrainians fault for getting nuked" is still as absurd as it always was.

All other things being equal, losing the war would result in the same or worse outcome, except after more months or years of costly war.

Oh no, the horror, the dictator could be replaced, possibly with another dictator. How will we ever get over this.

Lend-lease just barely started. That's about as big of a commitment as it gets.

That's quite pathetic, pretty much copypasta from Kremlins excuse list. After months of losing military equipment and personnel, Russia can't plug these holes with untrained cannon fodder. Mobilized drunks can't fly airplanes and can't make airplanes. The best they can do is get a rusty Kalash and shoot it the general direction of the enemy.

Nuclear fantasies aside (again), Ukrainians have been bombing the shit out of Russian supply routes and depots etc for months now, while Russian response has fizzled. There is a reason they're using Iranian mopeds and had to modify C300 for surface-to-surface use and keep blatantly targeting high-density residential buildings. Let's see if you can figure that reason out before January.

...In a nuclear war there is no winner. The first strike is guaranteed to be followed by a response (it could even not be a nuke, but certainly proportional and devastating)... and from there nobody knows...

What happens is that Russians start retreating. 200+ tanks have already been sent from the EU and NATO to Ukraine so it's not a hypothetical question like you're trying to make it sound.

As Ukraine pleads for tanks, the West holds back
...
Ukraine is asking urgently for modern tanks to help their forces seize on rapid gains in the northeast and take additional territory, but the West is dragging its feet
...
The tanks have shot to the top of Kyiv’s wish list
...
The request took on new urgency this week after Vladimir Putin announced that he would mobilize 300,000 additional troops for the fight in Ukraine, a major escalation of the campaign.
...
The more modern American-made M-1 Abrams and German-made Leopard tanks would add a powerful punch that could help Kyiv’s forces capture and hold more ground, compared to the old Soviet-era tanks they currently operate, say experts and Ukrainian advisers
...
But Germany has repeatedly rejected Ukraine’s request for the tanks
...
“It’s top of their list now, it didn’t used to be,” said one congressional staffer familiar with the request
...
One adviser to the Ukrainian government said “the Ukrainians definitely want the Leopards” and have been frustrated that Germany has denied the permits to Spain and other countries that were willing to donate them
...
German defense company Rheinmetall also requested government approval to export 88 Leopard tanks to Ukraine, but Berlin refused to grant permission.

Putin can deescalate any time he wants. Until then nothing is being dropped.

Funny how you kremlinists fantasize about nukes and yet are looking for ways to blame the other side for it. Just admit it that the conventional war is lost and get out of there while you can still save your country. Nuking Ukraine (and Russia in the process) is not going to win the war.

Blowing up Russian supply lines is an important ongoing project for Ukrainian military and unlikely to have anything to do with desperation or some nuclear fantasies. But there is no Biden speech and no tweets from Polish politicians on the subject so your standards of proof are slipping. Are you sure the truck wasn't carrying sugar from Ryazan?

What are you talking about.  You know Russia literally invaded and is occupying parts of Ukraine right now, right? This is what happens when one country invades another country on it's border and attempts long term occupation despite failing to conquer the other countries military or being capable of both occupying the other country and defending it's own infrastructure.  Shit starts blowing up on both sides of the border.

And anyone  that is genuinely outraged that Ukraine would behave this way, or feels like Russia is in any way the innocent victim is delusional.

...Now I remember words of drunk clown Dimon Medvedev about judgement day if Ukraine will attack Crimea. Or nothing didn't happened again?...

Given that this is again made up and not at all what I said, I think I'll leave it to your fantasies.

Let's enjoy the birthday fireworks instead.

Quit making shit up.


(emphasis mine)

Ukrainian officials have called on world leaders to issue a firm warning to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, making it clear that any attempt to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine would result in catastrophic consequences for Russia.
...
“The other nuclear states need to say very firmly that as soon as Russia even thinks of carrying out nuclear strikes on foreign territory – in this case the territory of Ukraine – there will be swift retaliatory nuclear strikes to destroy the nuclear launch sites in Russia,” said Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior aide to Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in an interview at the presidential administration in Kyiv.

We're pretending now that you can't read Russian?

What he seems to be saying is that (unlike sanctions after invasion) pressure needs to be applied to Russia to discourage it from using nuclear weapons, and not wait until it uses them (like sanctions after invasion). FWIW I don't think that makes much sense because Putin is about as irrational as it gets and doesn't need a reason or discouragement to use or not to use nukes, but nowhere in that sentence does Zelensky call for a preemptive nuclear strike. He's talking about preventing a nuclear strike.


I've never said or implied any of that, so it seems that you've ran out of arguments on the subject if you need to resort to making more shit up. I've pointed out that his office explained his position... whether he misspoke or was misunderstood or mistranslated or was just plain wrong - is irrelevant, and continuing to push the idea that he wants to start a nuclear war is absurd. And FFS make up your mind - is Zelia NATO/EU puppet, or is he puppeting NATO?

As for his holiness: I've pointed out many times that Kremlin's obsession with Zelensky's persona and every word he says (or Kremlin makes up about him) doesn't make sense and seems to be based on Putin's "tsar" image. That's not how a real president's office - with term limits and whatnot - works. Zelensky will be gone and Ukraine will still not love Russia. Go figure.

“Mr President, in your remarks you mentioned nuclear blackmail,” the host said.

“Mr Putin told us the other day that he’s not bluffing. So may I ask you, do you believe that the likelihood of the use of Russian nuclear weapons against Ukraine has risen, and what more do you want NATO to do to deter Russia from using nuclear weapons?”

Mr Zelensky replied that NATO should “eliminate the possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons”.

“But what is important, I once again appeal to the international community, as I did before February 24 – we need pre-emptive strikes, so that they’ll know what will happen to them if they use nukes, and not the other way around,” he said.

“Don’t wait for Russia’s nuclear strikes, and then say, ‘Oh, since you did this, take that from us!’ Reconsider the way you apply pressure. This is what NATO should do – reconsider the order in which it applies pressure [on Russia].”

The source is not Kyiv Post, the source is the president's office.

Given that Ukraine doesn't have nukes and Russia does and Putler never did any "damage control" on his threats to use them, the accusation that Zelensky is starting a nuclear war is about as absurd as all the other Kremlin fantasies.

"Кaк этo былo дo 24 фeвpaля — пpeвeнтивныe yдapы. Чтoбы oни знaли. чтo c ними бyдeт, ecли oни иcпoльзyют [ядepнoe opyжиe], a нe нaoбopoт: ждaть ядepныx yдapoв Poccии, чтoбы пoтoм cкaзaть "Ax, ты тaк? Hy вoт пoлyчaй oт нac", — пoдчepкнyл пpeзидeнт. — Пepecмoтpeть пpимeнeниe cвoeгo дaвлeния — вoт чтo, я cчитaю, дoлжнo дeлaть HATO: пepecмoтpeть пopядoк пpимeнeния".

"Like it was before February 24 - pre-emptive strikes. So that they know what will happen to them if they use [nuclear weapons], and not vice versa: wait for Russian nuclear strikes, then to say," Oh, are you so? Well, take it from us," the President stressed. "Reconsider the application of its pressure - that's what I think NATO should do: reconsider the application."

“I once again appeal to the international community, as it was before February 24: preemptive strikes so that they [Russians] know what will happen to them [??] and not vice versa.”

Quit making shit up.


(emphasis mine)

Dude, you like to pose as as someone who can see things that others cannot - hate to break it to you: The US policy is very transparent, the German position on regards to it is known since ages you are just stating stuff that everyone knows years if not decades ago . Trump, who is a egomaniac even said it out loud: US does not like Germany to be a commercial partner of the RF while they depend on US for defence against them.

Your level of "analysis" and "dangerous questions". is equivalent to reading an 8 year old newspaper.

Now, you go back and read all the reasons why an RF attack is very likely (payback for EU help to Ukraine, rules of Mafia) and an US attack is very unlikely (basically an act of war to one of the few allies they have left) and try to make your case.

BTW, EU's answer to US cutting in spending while demanding more payments from EU, was "sure, but instead of paying NATO, we are going to create an EU army". Trump never raised the point again.


I am against war and killing. You have been justifying the RF aggression because is "a fight against capitalism".

Unfortunately, there are countries in which changes are possible and others in which, as of now it is not. The pressure from EU and US for social liberal policies is subject to reality checks, like most things in life.

Rocketing energy costs are savaging German industry
Germany is bracing itself for a rough winter as soaring energy prices threaten to leave permanent scars on its manufacturing sector, a key engine of its economy.
...
But energy-intensive sectors, which include chemicals, glass and metals producers, fared even worse, slumping by more than 2% from July.
...
“We don’t need a crystal ball to see a further weakening of German industry in the coming months. The full impact of higher energy prices will only be felt in the last months of the year,”
...
Germany’s manufacturing industry — which accounts for more than one fifth of the country’s economic output — is worried some of its companies won’t see the crisis through. Many are slashing production, while some are laying off staff and relocating parts of their operations abroad to cope.
...
 “[Energy] has gone from being… a cost among others in the business to be something which has the capacity of basically closing the business down,” he said.
Energy costs at Prysmian’s six German factories are expected to soar to €20 million ($20 million) this year from just €5 million ($5 million) in 2021. Next year, costs are predicted to hit €35 million ($34 million) — a 600% rise from 2020.
...
Prysmian has already made permanent cuts to its workforce. Persson said he had laid off about 10% of staff in his region, which covers Germany, Romania, Hungary and the Czech Republic, over the past three months.
...
“We might consider this time as the starting point for an accelerated deindustrialization in Germany,” Eric Heymann, a senior economist at the bank, wrote in the report.
...
According to a survey last month by the Confederation of European Paper Industries (CEPI), two-thirds of paper producers on the continent have cut their production, while just over half have temporarily closed.
...
 “There’s a risk that essentially Germany subsidizing its glass industry will kill the Czech glass industry,” Georg Zachmann, a senior fellow at Bruegel, told CNN Business.

Belgium Calls For A Natural Gas Price Cap To Avoid Deindustrialization
...
The European Union needs to quickly intervene in its gas and energy markets, including by imposing a price cap on wholesale gas, to avoid a spiral of deindustrialization and social unrest amid sky-high energy prices, Belgium’s Prime Minister Alexander De Croo told the Financial Times in
...
Belgium’s De Croo told FT that if the EU didn’t intervene in the gas market, “we are risking a massive deindustrialization of the European continent and the long-term consequences of that might actually be very deep.”
...
EU could impose a hard cap on Russian gas and a flexible ceiling on LNG imports, which would still be high enough for LNG exporters to have the incentive to bring it to Europe.

While we don’t know who was behind the suspected sabotage, we do know that Europe is in big trouble as the cold weather months approach.
...
Europe is heading for deindustrialization.
...
Stephen Bryen, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration, wrote Monday on the Jewish Policy Center’s website that there was no “corroborating or credible evidence” that the Americans blew up the pipeline, nor the Russians. Moreover, he noted that the region is a hotbed of unexploded World War II ordinance. The area is a naval firing range for numerous countries as well. Accidents happen, he said. It's not impossible.
...
Secretary of State Tony Blinken is happy about it. He said recently that the U.S. has been selling LNG to Europe and that has “helped compensate for any loss of oil and gas due to Russia’s aggression against Ukraine and we have established a task force to work directly with Europe to decrease demand and get through the winter…and find a way to speed up their transition to renewables.”

And for the snipers to have a clear shot at the Orc Slaves backs.
...

Source: https://twitter.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/1577993159111589893

EU has confirmed a total ban on providing crypto-custody and payment services to Russians.

So what is the true meaning of freedom of speech in the western world? mocking other's beliefs and making fun of them? They just created these disrespectful scenarios to hurt Muslim's feelings. What if now Muslims do something disrespectful toward the late queen Elizabeth one of the most respectful people not only in the UK but also in other countries people or do something about the Christian religious leader the pope? Western media would have called all Muslims terrorists or the enemy of humanity.

Hypocrisy is at its best!

Watching the documentary, made by The Guardian.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kxzs-qHnkqI

Russia is underestimating the Ukraine. Surprised...!
We saw how Ukraine broke Russia's pride.

...
As far as US pushing EU to diversify its energy resources from RU, now you're starting to open up your eyes, think macro level and ask very dangerous questions. Careful, real world is not pretty and dangerous questions might lead to disillusionment and why everyone cares about Ukraine all of a sudden.

April 2008
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24690055

August 2008
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Georgia-s-oil-pipeline-is-key-to-U-S-support-3201499.php



Now take a wild guess which country holds/held? the second largest gas reserves in Europe after Norway and transited more natural gas than any other country in the world? Here's a hint The Yuzivska gas field is an unconventional Ukrainian natural gas field that was discovered in 2010...Region: Donetsk Oblast Kharkiv Oblast

And in 2013 we have American cookies in Ukraine supporting the coup against RU leaning UA president


What amazing coincidences, ok so if RU is #1 in world gas reserves, lets check on who is #2, I'm sure things must be amazing there right no... oh right it's Iran, July 27, 2022 Iran’s natural gas exports revenues in the four months to late July have exceeded figures reported for the entire calendar year to March what a great time to start worrying about women rights there, can someone ask Saudis not to stone any women to death or dismember any journalist this month?

You need to read more carefully - in what you or I would think is irrational. The Mafia world has its own rules.

No, if Germany buys gas from RF through any means that Adolf Putin is desperate enough to sell gas to EU - nothing else - it makes no difference to the point.

If Ukraine falls under the influence of the Orcs Adolf holds the key, if not Ukraine is a partner in the EU. In any of those cases, Germany should have learnt the lesson and have a plan B in the future to avoid being blackmailed by RF or, if it really should come to it in a million years, by Ukraine.

Germany has made a mistake when appreciating the real control and reliability of Adolf Putin as a commercial partner. They should know better in the future, even if they decide to keep using cheap RF gas, they will need the plan B and a progressive energetic transition (which is anyway needed).

President Bush threw the NATO summit meeting here off-script on Wednesday by lobbying hard to extend membership to Ukraine and Georgia, but he failed to rally support for the move among key allies.
...
Mr. Bush’s position — that Ukraine and Georgia should be welcomed into a Membership Action Plan, or MAP, that prepares nations for NATO membership — directly contradicted German and French government positions stated earlier this week. It also risked upsetting efforts to get Russia to soften its opposition to positioning a missile defense array in Eastern Europe.
Mr. Bush failed to win over a consensus of NATO members in a debate at a dinner of NATO leaders, a senior German official said Wednesday night, with at least seven countries lined up against him.
...
As Mr. Bush did more often early in his presidency, he expressed his views candidly despite warnings from allies that he was complicating efforts to find diplomatic solutions.
Normally, summit meetings like this are prescripted, but Mr. Bush’s comments added some extra interest while annoying Germany and France, which had said they would block the invitation to Ukraine and Georgia.
...
Some German officials described the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, as upset and even angry on Wednesday. She and Mr. Bush have talked repeatedly about the issue in the past two months.

The US has been spying on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone since 2002, according to a report in Der Spiegel magazine.

Georgia's oil pipeline is key to U.S. support
...
Georgia's pipeline: It allows the West to reduce its reliance on Middle Eastern oil, bypassing Russia and Iran
...
There is more than meets the eye to the frantic U.S. efforts Friday to talk Russia and American ally Georgia out of war over an obscure mountain tract most Americans have never heard of.
A look at the map and your gas credit card bill shows why.
...
The breakaway province of South Ossetia is claimed by Georgia, a former Soviet republic that cast its lot with the United States and the West to the eternal irritation of Moscow. But South Ossetia has resisted Georgia's rule and has been under Russia's sway for years.
...
A U.S.-backed oil pipeline runs through Georgia, allowing the West to reduce its reliance on Middle Eastern oil while bypassing Russia and Iran.
...
The pipeline that crosses Georgia can pump slightly more than 1 million barrels of crude oil per day, or more than 1 percent of the world's daily crude output. The 1,100-mile pipeline carries oil from Azerbaijan's Caspian Sea fields, estimated to hold the world's third-largest reserves.
...
Most of the oil is bound for Western Europe, where gas prices are even higher than the $4 and more a gallon that U.S. consumers are now paying. With only so much oil to go around, what the pipeline carries affects prices elsewhere. The United States also hopes it will be a model for other development projects that could have a more direct effect on the U.S. market.
...
U.S diplomats refer to these neighborhood squabbles as "frozen conflicts," a euphemism that belies the long-recognized threat that seemingly petty disputes can easily provoke a wider war.

All well-rehearsed Kremlin bullet points, except most people in Germany don't fall for that BS and tend to think increasingly more like 1miau, who happens to be from Germany, I mean what a shocking turn of events this is not.



(the poll question is "should we support Ukraine despite rising energy costs")


Still not getting how the whole freedom of speech / democracy thing works, are you? Hint: in normal non-Putin countries people, even MEPs, often have differing opinions, make stupid jokes, or could simply be wrong.

New poll signals Americans are growing tired of support for Ukraine without diplomacy as the war against Russia drags on
...
The poll found that a majority of Americans want the US to pursue diplomatic negotiations to end the war ASAP.
The poll also showed that many Americans are concerned about the financial costs of the conflict.
...
According to a poll conducted by the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress, 57% of likely voters strongly or somewhat support the US pursuing diplomatic negotiations as soon as possible to end the war in Ukraine, even if it requires Ukraine making compromises with Russia. Just 32% of respondents were strongly or somewhat opposed to this.

And nearly half of the respondents (47%) said they only support the continuation of US military aid to Ukraine if the US is involved in ongoing diplomacy to end the war, while 41% said they support the continuation of US military aid to Ukraine whether the US is involved in ongoing diplomacy or not.

You are making that mistake again: one or even a few people in a party demanding one thing isn’t the party line at all.  
If you think AfD has been of one and the same opinion in 2013, you are misguided. Even the fascist Bernd Höcke has been into AfD in 2013. But politicians demanding to break away from the EU / supporting far right propaganda were a minority back then and their opinions weren’t the party line back then. The party line in 2013 was to reform the EU, not leave it. 
The party line later shifted to abolish the EU, but that wasn’t the party line in 2013.
In addition: Eurosceptic ≠ Break away from the EU
Eurosceptic: sceptical of how Euro is managed by ECB, sceptical how the European Parliament is making politics, sceptical how Germany was paying money to Italy / Greece....
Things are much more nuanced than in your limited world view.

---

Exactly, 2019, the party line was to abolish the EU.
2013 ≠ 2019

---

First thing: it's a general comment on critical NATO infrastructure of its 30 member nations.
Second thing: attacking NATO infrastructure should not be accepted at all and it doesn't matter if it's obsolete soon or newly build (or both  ).

Republican politician Marjorie Taylor Greene has sparked controversy by saying that she does not believe Russian president Vladimir Putin is behind the sabotage of the two Nord Stream pipelines.

As a German I can tell you that you are indeed the sort of guy where 1 random article from the internet is enough to make up your opinion.  
Things are very easy in the world of Putin apologists like you - no surprise.  

The AfD from 2022 has (almost) nothing to do with AfD from 2013 (only the name). AfD started as a party criticizing many "poorer" EU countries (Italy, Greece) which got a lot of money from Germany via EU and because Germany paid that, AfD wanted to stop money transfers to them because in AfD 2013's opinion these countries were "lazy".
The AfD from 2013 didn't want to leave EU - never! They wanted to bring reforms to EU and some advocated for a revival of Deutsche Mark - Germans currency before Euro was launched.
Their main topic were economics. Most of their leaders were educated and sane back in 2013.

In 2015, AfD selected a new leader while during 2015, the right wing of AfD gained massive traction and the right wing achieved a coup against the founder of AfD - he was ousted and in a hot battle, he left the party. He was replaced by Frauke Petry, a moderate right wing politician and when the immigration crisis 2015 came up, AfD shifted their agenda from their former topic (economics) to immigration - advocating to deny most immigrants and throw them out of Germany.
Some years later, in 2017, Frauke Petry also faced a coup from the right wing of the right wing (nationalists) and the nationalists won - the party shiftet further right.
There was a third shift even further right in 2019 / 2020, when the fascist right took over the important lead over the Eastern-German parts of the party, where Bernd Höcke, a fascist, is so strong.

In its history, the party has only become more radical every few years.

Almost all people who founded AfD in 2013 have now left the party or were thrown out by the fascist right, whose leader Bernd Höcke is.
There are almost no sane people left in this party...

---

And no, I have to disappoint you, neither Germany nor USA/Poland nor Ukraine blow up NordStream 2, but Putin has clear motives to blow it up.

Let's look at it:

Germany doesn't need to blow up this pipeline since it has been sure since Putin's illegal war, that NordStream 2 will never be activated and purchase of russian gas by NordStream 1 to Germany will stop as soon as possible. Germany has pushed very hard to get rid of russian gas and the pipeline has become basically irrelevant.
Why should they blow up the pipeline? Makes no sense at all.  

After USA tried to lobby against NordStream 2 for years with massive efforts but has been unsuccesful so far because surprisingly, Putin has been the one who made their mission succesful on February 24, when Putin invaded Ukraine and isolated Russia succesfully from the West.
Surely, the USA would blow up a useless pipeline which will never get activated because Putin finished this Job already on February 24.
Surely, the USA would risk the alliance by blowing up a useless pipeline from an allied state (Germany) while there's no need at all to take such a risky adventure (will never get activated).
Surely, the USA would only blow up 3 streams and 1 of them, especially from NordStream 2, will stay intact, so that Putin can still potentially send gas to Germany.  

According to some Kremlin trolls it can also be Ukraine. Maybe Ukraine rent a dolphin, a brave guy (Klitschko) with some dynamite swam on the back of the dolphin through Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea, half of the Atlantic, through the English Channel, past Denmark and Sweden just to the Baltic Sea to blow up the useless pipeline.
Surely, Ukraine would risk the support from the west for blowing up a useless pipeline...  

While Russia has a useless pipeline since German politicians have learned their lesson to abandon Putin and his gas. Since Putin invaded Ukraine, it was very clear that NordStream 2 would not be activated. While Putin continued his war crimes and now annexed 4 parts of Ukraine, it was very clear that Germany will stop purchasing Russian gas as soon as possible. Therefore, Putin run out of options what to do with his failed pipeling because Germany doesn't played his game and he looked bad.  
Surprinsingly, one Stream of NordStream 2 is still intact, leaving it open for Putin demanding Germany to open it.
Let me guess which stories are plausible and which not.  

But sure, the guy from Kremlin, who has lied basically every day, is not the one to blow up his useless pipeline and blame the west (as usual).
Idiots like you are his best asset - completely brainwashed...  

You are delusional, same as Putin.  
Your dumb takes are embarassing.  

Joachim Starbatty speaks out as breakaway Eurosceptic party Alternative für Deutschland holds founding conference
...
One of Germany's most eminent economists has called for the swift dissolution of the eurozone in its present form, arguing that the vision of a united Europe is in danger of imploding if debt-ridden countries are not shown the door.
...
Therefore it would be better if these countries that are not competitive, like Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, etc, were to leave." An alternative, he argued, would be for Germany to leave.
...

Anti-Euro Party Surges Before Election
...
By sticking to its simple, euroskeptic line, the AfD has inhabited a gap in the political market.
...
When asked whether the anti-euro party could enter the Bundestag, Schöppner says: "That's impossible for me to say."

AfD party votes to campaign for German exit from EU
...
The decision on Sunday marks the first time any party has called for “Dexit” – a German departure from the EU in the mould of Brexit.
If the EU is not reshaped in line with the party’s ideas “in an appropriate timeframe”, Germany must leave the bloc, according to the draft manifesto for the forthcoming European parliament elections agreed by delegates at a party congress in the eastern state of Saxony.
...
Congress attendees also voted through a call to abolish the European parliament – the very body that AfD candidates will be campaigning to join this spring.

NATO Vows Retaliation for Attacks on Infrastructure
...
NATO vowed retaliation Thursday for attacks on the critical infrastructure of its 30 member nations, while strongly suggesting the rupture of two Baltic Sea pipelines meant to send natural gas from Russia to Germany was the direct result of sabotage.

Ambassadors to NATO, the West's key military alliance, said in a statement, "Any deliberate attack against allies' critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response." They said four ruptures in the pipelines were of "deep concern."

We all have the right to express ourselves freely. And you are doing so right now in this forum. However, every man's freedom ends where another man's freedom begins.
Freedom of speech does not include invoking violence and terrorism.

We've seen all kinds of whataboutism in this thread and none of it has made any sense so far. Neither does this.

Nor does it make sense for you to be trying so hard to prove that Russia has blackmail potential. I mean of all things... this is important?

As far-right parties score election victories across the EU, the nationalist Alternative for Germany party is looking to translate economic anxiety into similar gains. The polls suggest that the strategy is working.
...
The AfD was founded in 2013 as a euroskeptic party. And still, their position is that Germany should leave the EU
...
"They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people. They're arguing that elites in Moscow aren't the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are."
...
The message that the AfD is trying to send to the governing coalition of the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), the Green Party and the neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP) is clear: "You are not in charge of Russia — you're in charge of this country."
...
ˈThe worse things are for Germany, the better things are for the AfDˈ Indeed, AfD co-chair Tino Chrupalla has repeatedly accused Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government of fighting an "economic war" against Germans as inflation has risen to over 8%. The sanctions "are not in Germany's interest," Chrupalla has insisted, predicting that "throughout the fall, support for the government's policies will continue to sink."
...
According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz's party has fallen from 25.7% in last year's federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.
The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.
...
As households across Germany are shocked to receive their heating bills, the right-wing populists see golden opportunities ahead.
...
Under the slogan "a hot autumn against cold feet," the AfD has announced plans to hold weekly anti-government marches in the coming months
...
The AfD leader announced a concerted protest movement against the government's energy and Russia policies. From October, the AfD wants to take to the streets with the rallying cry "Our country first!" Chrupalla declined to confirm that this was modeled on Donald Trump's "America first" campaign.

If you ignore the propaganda crap, you will have no reason to exist.

I can see that you finally realised what I have been saying over and over since months ago:  Russia and Europe have never been winner in any war in Europe. The ones benefiting from this one are Saudis, China, US...  Note: Certainly not the RF, it is not only coming diplomatically and politically weaker, but also fucking its economy for the long term.

 In the war of 1914, Europe lost world dominance, in WW II, USA emerged as the superpower is today and now thanks to the Psychos of the RF Russia is bleeding people and has no expectative of growth whatsoever for the next decade and Europe will have ... a bump in the road until they unlink from RF gas.

Again, I mentioned a while ago that, thanks to Adolf Putin and the Psycos in the RF army:

- EU has more debt and has to undergo an energy transformation.
- RF has extended its border with NATO by thousands of kilometres and has driven two neutral countries into the NATO.
- Has been proven as an unreliable supplier.
- Has been sanctioned and is unlikely to ever recover its stance in the world.
- Has lost the technological and professional elites that are needed for the progress of a country.

In essence, has lost everything that makes a country prosper and be regarded as a partner. Did the US intend this? Of course. Did Adolf Putin acted in the best way to stop it? You tell me genius.


I think you have lived for too long in a country that let's you speak freely. I urge you to apply for RF citizenship - with your previous military experience you will have the chance to fully enjoy the advantages of an authoritarian regime in the front line, like many of the young unready and unwilling recruited soldiers.


Mostly irrelevant, it does not matter when or how the reserves are used or filled. The fact is that RF shuts the valve and it matters little if the NS is operational or not in the short term and there are still several paths for the gas to fill the reserves if there was a political will, which is not the case.

There are several things in you post that are beyond reality (e.g. a Grexit), stating that the NS I & II are "Russia property",... I cannot even comment on those.

And now,

The RF is not acting in a rational manner as you or I would interpret it. Their prime objective is to act like they always act: twisting arms, threatening, intimidating and terrorising... having an international stance as "though" as Adolf Putin riding a horse half naked. They do not understand anything but retaliation and these attacks look to me like retaliation from miles away. Again, away from NATO territory, so it cannot be interpreted as an attack on a member country.

Again, the hypothesis of the US blowing up European infrastructures is pretty much senseless, as they already have Europe dependent on them for military and economic reasons and, if discovered, it would be such a radical change in relations for the worse that is simply not worth it.

Too many leaks in the pipeline of your "critical thinking".

NS2 was dead already. "Germans call for [...] opening" is bullshit, a few people protesting won't make that happen.

Let's say Putin decided to shut NS1 off in January. Would that change Germany's policies towards Ukraine or Russia? There is no indication that it would. That's what I mean by exhausted blackmail potential.

As for lost gas and whatnot... you're assuming that Putin is a rational actor, which he clearly is not. If he cared about Russia's economy he wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, or would have retreated when the crushing sanctions became evident. He will happily run the country into the ground to feed his imperial ego. Blowing up a pipeline, or like Russian propagandists now propose - blowing up gas tankers, underwater fiber cables, etc - to harm the "enemy" is small potatoes compared to the overall destructiveness of the regime, so your feigned outrage as to why we would even think that Russia could do this makes no sense.

My mistake certainly, I did not use the right name (you get one merit for correct my facts and one more for presenting a funny hypothesis, that is my usual policy), but in fact we are agreeing that there is a path through Ukraine. If you like picture, see that big 140 BCM line in the middle of Ukraine below? Well, that is a gas pipe with a capacity of 140BCM. Nord Stream is 55 BCM at maximum capacity.




So, still the argument that you are failing to address remains:

Short term, Germany is no more fucked or dependent on Ukraine that it was before, since the NS were pretty much closed from the RF end. The Nord Stream was mainly a RF doing, because Ukraine asked for payment for the pass through their territory, paid with German money. Old news.

Long term:

- Ukraine can be either integrated in Europe (EU or other treaty), in which case will favour the passage of gas. If you try to fuck with Germany in the EU, you are likely to run into trouble. There are many examples including Greece, Poland (which is close to getting internal sanctions) and Hungary.
- Or (much less likely) occupied by RF who does not need it to close or open the valve anyway.

So curiously, the long term effect is only the loss of a valuable infrastructure which damages the German investors in the project but not much more, that is why the retaliation hypothesis makes perfect sense. Also an infrastructure that is precisely in non-NATO territory.

Now, why would the US sabotage the pipeline?
- To fuck like you say his main ally in Europe? (stupid)
- To force Germany to be dependent of Ukraine (not impossible, but still fucking your allies).

The second one makes a 25% sense let's say, but the risk of an international backslash against US in case of being found clearly exceeds any veeeery long shot "advantage".

Bottomline, as it is now, it looks like international terrorism from Adolf Putin's Psychos and the Chief Orcs.

Uhm... make sure you're sitting down for this one: Russia had already turned the pipeline off. They've done it multiple times for ridiculous made up reasons. They've exhausted the blackmail potential on that one. Closing it off for a few weeks apparently just makes Germany work even harder on arranging alternative supplies, instead of wanting to cave (stop Ukraine weapon supplies, open NS2 etc), who could have possibly guessed.

Blowing it up though creates a few new potential scenarios, like threats to other pipelines etc. Again, this is Russian propaganda staple, what with apocalyptic "Europe freezing" scenarios etc. I'm not sure why you're now doing 180 from the gas blackmail and claim Russia couldn't have possibly done it. I guess trying to drive a wedge between the US and Europe is the new propaganda pivot. Good luck with that. Nothing unites more than a common enemy, especially a deranged lunatic like Putin.

Gas prices going up benefit Russia. They've done this trick many times, including recently with the NS shutdown shenanigans. But what do I know, maybe Biden blew the pipeline up to help Putin finance the war. Weirder things have happened.


Sure, Murdoch's tabloid knows best. You can also quote Tucker Carlson, another Murdoch employee and Kremlin's darling.

Unless "beyond repair" means "Germany doesn't buy enough gas from Russia anymore to justify the cost of repair", which might actually be true. But that invalidates the rest of your conspiratardery, doesn't it. Europe's not gonna freeze this winter, etc.

(translated) Meanwhile, German security authorities are assuming that the three tubes of the Baltic Sea pipeline Nord Stream 1 and 2 will be forever useless after alleged acts of sabotage

Interesting theory I reckon, the US being the one blowing up the gas pipe to ensure that Germany does not use it. However it does not make sense, since they anyway have Nord Stream I which is already shut off. If Germany / EU would want RF gas, they can still get it. Following the argument, the NS I goes through Ukraine, but Ukraine would not interrupt these due to risk of EU becoming less friendly.

 Blowing the Nord Stream II looks like the RF army doing to kind of "make a point" on regards to EU aid and aligns well with a country that is under a Junta.

In my view, this is an act of war. The Orc army could have chosen any other target right? A bridge in France, a factory in Germany... Why do you think they would hit NS II? The answer is very simple: it is not in NATO territory and does not grant a NATO mobilisation which would end any expectation of even a technical "victory" in the invasion.

Now, what does YOUR critical thinking tell you about this?

while opinion polls show that more than two thirds of Germans still back sanctions, around half think these are hurting Germany more than Russia.
...
"Our entire economic system is in danger of collapsing. If we are not careful, Germany could become de-industrialised," Michael Kretschmer, conservative leader of the eastern Saxony region, told Die Zeit newspaper in an interview printed on Thursday.
"If we realise that we cannot for now give up on Russian gas, then it is bitter but it is the reality, and we must act accordingly."
Concerns about government policy on Ukraine are particularly widespread in the former communist East, which has stronger ties to Moscow and stands to be more affected by the looming economic downturn as it is already worse off.
...
Kretschmer, whose state has a population of around 4 million, is calling for the war in Ukraine to be "frozen" and for Europe to push for peace talks.
...
Ukraine's outgoing ambassador in Berlin, Andrij Melnyk, said on Twitter Kretschmer should stick his own head in the freezer to stop his "Russia fantasies".
...
"Freezing for freedom is not sustainable," CSU General Secretary Martin Huber told the Muenchner Merkur newspaper, referring to the prospect of possible gas shortages in the coming winter.

‘Sulky liver sausage!’ Ukraine ambassador scolds German leader for not visiting Kyiv

Germany fails Ukraine as 'vague' Scholz U-turns on military support
...
Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Schmyhal met with the German Chancellor in Berlin over the weekend to discuss cooperation against Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But the Ukrainian leader was left disappointed by Mr Scholz after he was met with reluctance to be provided with key military aid by Berlin.

Thousands take to streets in north Germany demanding launch of Nord Stream 2

...
It is Putin's payback for Germany nationalizing his refineries.

...The pipeline hasn't disappeared. It can and likely will be fixed and Kremlin will surely be extremely gleeful about it.

NORD STREAM is feared to have been damaged beyond repair and left crippled indefinitely after it was torn open by a series of explosions.

I'm starting to get fed up with the nuclear threat:

Medvedev raises spectre of Russian nuclear strike on Ukraine

If it were up to me, I would be prepared to launch a massive nuclear counterattack the moment Russia drops a single atomic bomb on Ukraine.

Ex-CIA officer says Putin is 'completely cornered' and the chances of his using tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine are increasing 'by the day'

Since the negative radiation effects would affect neighboring NATO member countries, I would consider the attack as triggering Article 5.

Surely this would end in a planetary catastrophe, but you can't live your whole life under the threat of a bully without reacting. I'd rather die with dignity than live on my knees.

You seem to be very unsure as to what you're talking about, so many questions...


Logic being that they had the city surrounded and in control of all roads out of it.


Again, Russian forces are in control of it. If they don't want or can't bear that responsibility they can hand it over to Ukraine or some sort of international control. It's a civilian object useless for military purposes unless the military purpose is nuclear blackmail.


Funny how you pretend like this is something new (unless you've been in a cave the last 20-30 years and it is indeed new to you). Russians have been using gas and oil for blackmail for decades. Mostly against smaller countries like the Baltic states so it wasn't as newsworthy until they hit Germany.

No.


Yanik's resignation didn't ruin Donetsk, the Russian invasion (2014 and even more so 2022) did. You need to clarify your point here if you have one. Reposting Kremlin propaganda in the form of loaded questions doesn't make it any more valid.


You're the one bringing up "leader" nationality. I'm saying it means jack shit, it's the fucked up Russian/Soviet regime that caused this and it makes sense that Russia's neighbors (other than ones with their own wannabe dictators like Belarus' potato fuehrer) don't want any of that. Which part of it is still too difficult for you to understand?

...
Ahh the, you default because i won't accept your payment, logic. I'm not sure if USD can be militarized anymore than this, so they decided to totally kill USD as a global reserve currency, how much of the US debt do they expect China to buy up after such antics? US cannot run on balanced budget especially now, so Yellen will need to force EU (Germany/France) to start propping up USD at the cost of EUR. USD/EUR parity incoming. Scholz and Macron are set up to be played hard, guess that's why they're running around the way they do

“Every Russian soldier who either shoots at the plant, or shoots using the plant as cover, must understand that he becomes a special target for our intelligence agents, for our special services, for our army,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in an evening address on Saturday.

Ukrainian military officials have accused Russian forces of firing missiles from the plant’s grounds in Nikopol, just across the Dnipro River, using the plant’s vulnerability as cover.

Russia ‘endangers the whole world’ with strike on nuclear power plant in Ukraine

Biden, in contrast, told reporters at the White House that “if Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, there will be no longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
Asked how he could be sure, since it would be officials in Berlin, not Washington, who would make the decision, Biden told a journalist: “I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.”

Nord Stream pipeline blasts were likely from explosions, not earthquakes, seismologist says

U.S. Blew Up Russian Gas Pipelines Nord Stream 1 & 2, Says Former Polish Defense Minister