My contention is that Dash doesn't work as a trustless system Thats because you don't understand "trust". You've got some ludicrous made up nonsense that associates individuals with nodes. The protocol logic (A) isn't run by individuals and (b) is decentralised (as in can be reproduced as many times as there are nodes). "Trusted parties" are those that issue promisary notes in place of bearer tokens. Keep tryin to fling that word around though in the vain attempt that it'll stick. It'll only stick with anyone as clueless as the idiots that come up with this garbage. (Bit like cryptohunter above trying to fling the s-word as many times as he can in the hope that that'll stick). I associate those who plunk down 1000 dash to collect fees from those nodes to individuals, where this becomes a problem is that you cannot trustlessly verify that these individuals aren't using their collected fees to buy more nodes thus aggregating more control over voting and whatever other functions are tethered to nodes. |
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abuse Hey Tokky, any comments? I think you've got a problem deciding whether your an ideological crusader for libertarian fair values or a drunk football supporter that just stumbled out of a bar after their team lost. Wake me up when your sort your story out. That's about what I expected. More diversion away from the obvious flaw in your main argument. My contention is that Dash doesn't work as a trustless system, therefore it is useless as a cryptosystem--well useless in a world that already has trillions of dollars and hundreds of years invested in trust based systems. It's that simple. |
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is Vitalik an order of magnitude smarter than Satoshi?
no, but his balls are an order of magnitude bigger when you are thinking about dropping a million dollars of your hard earned cash into a crypto community, knowing that the lead developer has the huevos to show himself in public and stand behind his creation instead of hiding like a coward or criminal offers the potential investor a certain level of clarity that is devilishly absent from the bitcoin community. And why do you ask, do investors love this "clarity" concept that the bitcoin community cannot seem to grasp? Why does Wall St demand quarterly reports from every company CEO? Well, in the words of the worlds richest coward, "if you don't understand by now, then ur obviously too stoopid" You will not receive a dime of Wall Street money without a company CEO. but for those admittedly too stupid who still ask why, here's the only answer: TRUST You should be able to evaluate a cryptosystem on its properties alone and determine if the system delivers what it states or not without having to trust that any parties are acting in good or bad faith--this type of evaluation assumes that all parties are acting in bad faith and attempts to keep the outcome within a statistical model of acceptable and unacceptable risk. In short: TRUSTLESS |
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for me it is a scam.
1. if they just said at the start we are going to mine a ton of it and keep and vest it for ourselves and if you want to be a mug and mine some you can. then it would just be very unfair.
Rather they put no instamine no premine - suggesting fairness but then shafting everyone.
2. why try to hide they were mining on 100 different wallets? another sign of dishonesty.
3. they then come out with some excuse that they are made to do it like this because it is more legal to perform a captive instamine than a premine.
I voted scam after thinking it over for a while.
Hopefully a dev will be coming forward to clone it with a fair start for everyone very soon.
Has much work gone into this? I can not tell?
Has someone just mated hodl with bitshares?
To clone this how much work for a developer at this time?
I think the simpler question is: Does it do anything worth cloning? Also, can one of the options be scammish? As it really depends on you not understanding what they are saying, though "no premine" is the type of truth in advertising I expect from some of the other BS artists in the alt section--so probably scam, though one of the most honest scams out there. |
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If you still choose to invest then that's your call. Really ! ? I'd never have guessed  it deserves to be held back hard because of that Says who ? I think it deserves to see whatever success its utility warrants. So that makes it a kind of hung parliament. May the most popular view win. I suppose you'll just have to hope there are enough green-eyed zeolots around to make your predictions a self-fullfilling prophecy. Hey Tokky, any comments? Or is it gonna be like the instamine, ignore it until you have to begrudgingly accept/spin it? All of Tok's explanations on why the coins are well distributed depend on you trusting that no bad actors did things to further aggregate their control by manipulation--the problem is, Tok (you ignorant bastard) is that these system are supposed to be built so you don't have to trust anyone--least of all a gang of instaminers. Until you can prove that the system can work trustlessly and not reward a few hoarders sitting on a pile of coins, your coin cannot be verifiably decentralized and is nothing more than an (you guessed it) oligarchy.
It's like all these dashtards missed the trustless meeting, for fuck's sake, who needs any system that requires you to trust anyone, we already have credit card companies for that and I'm sure their systems will be just as "innovative" as the centrapoclyspe that Evan and his merry band of instaminers have built.
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Isn't honestly-unfair just another terminology for BS? Here, we created a lottery that only lottery employees can win, do you want to buy a ticket?
I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would fall for this, but my guess is some people just skim over most of the media and arrive at their own conclusions--maybe they should have a disclaimer: all misreadings are the sole responsibility of the reader as we've stated that we are going to mine the shit out of it and not let you have any meaningful portion of control--suck it, idiot! Which the naïve or greedy miner reads as Don't misread, our sole responsibility is to the miner, whom we plan on giving a shit-ton to and letting have total control--scam coins suck and are run by idiots!.
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Proof? LoL !!  Yeah, I thought you might ask for that. Sorry I'm a bit thin on the ground on DNA lab equipment right now Maybe you should increase the masternode payouts so you can afford it or is that money earmarked for an introduction economics course? |
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oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time. You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread... As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research. If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day. Cheers, Tao You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply). Don't worry, I'll turn you. The facts and my unlimited patience will sway you in time. This thread isn't going anywhere. I enjoy a challenge. I just ask you to please avail yourself of the facts. I would love to see you on our side, helping build the digital cash that Satoshi envisioned, the Internet of Money. Are you trying to impress me with how much BS you can cram into one sentence? I'd be more impressed if you acknowledge the design flaws in dash and moved on with your life and actually supported something in Satoshi's model of a cryptosystem that is antifragile and fungible enough to act as a cash and fulfill the cryptoanarchist's promise of an economics free of tyranny and systems that benefit a few fat cats, who use their power to gain more power instead of creating useful projects that work as intended and as promised--but I'm sure you're well aware of how far you are from that dream at the moment. |
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oligarchy The hypocrisy is strong with this one. Of the world's 7 Billion inhabitants, about 5 thousandths of one percent or so are in possession of the entire coin supply of any crypto you care to mention. Kiind of puts the phrase "fairly launched" into some perspective  The dumbassery is strong in this dashhole. The way paynodes work is by continually collecting a tax for centralized services (that those in ownership continually hype) therefore centralizing control of the coin in a continually flushing motion into the vortex of oligarchy. Claiming that the world doesn't own crypto doesn't dismiss that you are defending a design that's an oligarchy. Most of those coins don't have this design and the ones that do, will be just as ridiculed if they want to continually shill their BS on this thread. Sorry if being correct is getting in the way of your plans. |
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oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time. You're quite welcome to stay here as long as you like. You're practically an honorary member of Dash Nation already just by post count in this thread... As I've said before, I kind of like you. You possess the qualities of creativity and persistence which I admire, you're just a bit misguided due to lack of objective research. If you were to realize this, and join us, you would be an asset to the team. I genuinely hope that this will happen one day. Cheers, Tao You seem like a pro, unlike Evan who plays at cryptographer and Tok who plays at economist, both doing a piss-poor job in their respective roles as Trusted Experts, and I admire you for doing the best you can with the least amount of talent surrounding you, but as the saying goes, "It's better to have smart enemies than dumb friends." You really are too good for this bunch, but maybe they're paying you ( have no idea and am not insinuating that you are getting paid, only that you should be getting paid for the lack of a supporting cast), and it must be tough to stay positive in such a pile of scam and continually have to churn noobs/greater-fools onto more controlled settings within the dash media network--I'll admit the one thing that dash has going for it is hype, just sad that that is the only thing (waits for obligatory list of hypechievements that lack any significance to the greater cryptocurrency community, just more hype to lure greater fools into the oligarchy that Evan's instamine built--my obligatory pre-reply). |
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The problem for you guys is that until you invent a magical way to trustlessly prove dash isn't an oligarchy, you're going to be hearing the word for a long, long time. But aren't you glad it isn't about the instamine that exasperated the problem of your oligarchy--no one would have probably noticed the design flaw without the 30% instamine, so thanks for that
And yes, it would be nice to profit infinitely, but do you really think that many people are stupid enough for this thing to go on forever and without a regulator stepping in to end the party? I get that most of you were drawn here because you probably don't care what happens to other people as long as you get paid, but the rest of us don't want to help you get paid for doing next to nothing and sponging off a corrupt system design.
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At the end of the day, Tok, it requires the greater-fool to pay a taxation Well I am not an "oligarchical pot holder" as you call it. I bought mine on an exchange - and quite late in the day I might add. All the same, I'm not paying taxation to anyone. My wallet balances go up not down. Anyone with any amount of holding can avail themselves of the same benefit. Everyone's of course free to interprate different network policies and systems how they like - if you want to paint it as 'taxation for pot holders' be my guest. I interpret it as balancing the interests of all stakeholders - miners, holders, commercial users and maintainers. Without that balance you can mine all the tax free tokens you like if you're happy for them to end up worthless. As for "centralisation", and "nodes" it's fairly academic. One of = centralised Many of = decentralised One of many owned by an oligarch = a taxation for centralized services that puts an infinitely increasing amount of profits into masternode holder's hands for doing nothing but sitting on their butts and hyping new-users/the-naïve/greater-fools with empty promises of decentralization and moon landings. |
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except for the obvious misunderstanding that programmable money is supposed to work trustlessly. I think the misunderstanding might be yours for conflating the concepts of "promissory note", "articulated protocol" and "bearer token". At the end of the day, Tok, it requires the greater-fool to pay a taxation for centralized services to pot holders who can reap the rewards forever and ever and ever and ever..... If I had gotten into this early and had no political qualms about oligarchies, then I'd be right there with you defending my infinite pile of potential profits until the bitter end--though I suspect, if I were so inclined, I'd also have realized that once people stop buying into the system, that it's only a matter of time before the oligarchs sell their share of the kingdom in a mad dash to the bottom. Happy trails. |
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Good morning all. We are definitely making progress in this thread, keeping true to the thread title. The false narrative of the last two years is giving way to the real truth, which is that Dash represents progress, optimism and decentralized technology. The team behind Dash is talented, driven and cohesively focused on one goal: Bringing to the world the true digital cash that Satoshi envisioned: the Internet Of Money. Evan Duffield, who's name has been needlessly dragged through the mud for two years on these forums, is a professional, extremely hard-working, and honest man. I have seen times where people have sent him their wallet.dat with real funds in it so he could recover them, which he did and promptly sent the wallet back. I'm deeply proud to be associated with him, and to be part of the team creating this wonderful product. Thanks for bearing with us as the truth slowly starts to set in. Two years is a long time. I invite you to join us in Dash Nation. Tao (Dash Nation Campaign Founder) www.dash.orgwww.rebelmouse.com/dashnationhttps://DashTalk.orgwww.dashndrink.comHmmmmm, so your narrative is that Evan didn't steal these people's funds because he can be trusted? Instead of the narrative that he didn't steal their funds because it's chump change in the grand scheme of the things? Let's further analyze--a potential lifetime of taxation for every node he owns versus a one time heist that could cause further investigation into his actions and destroy his reputation once and for all? What I think Tao has done better than anyone else in the dash community is correctly identify that the dash oligarchy (since it can't be verified or unverified trustlessly) must be fed with a continual line of peasants/greater-fools who implicitly trust in Evan's development and economic motivations rather than that the system itself was designed to prevent an oligarchy. Well played--except for the obvious misunderstanding that programmable money is supposed to work trustlessly . |
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Moanero cloned a scam coin (Bytecoin). Then the shady guy starting making shady changes and broke it. since monero has no real working wallet yet i would assume the development team never changed, they just changed username account. anybody in the altcoin scene since with some experience knows how monero is raped by botnets from the usual people and that the coin is basically a rebrand of bytecoin plus some wealthy investor willing to pay an army of troll postsDo you have evidence of those claims? I ask knowing you don't. " I ask knowing you don't." Do you have evidence of those claims? Well, I know that I'm not paid, but it's really impossible for me to prove that, but on the other hand, if you had proof of those claims there is a better than good chance that you would have already provided proof, so therefore, I can pretty much claim knowledge of the absence of proof using common sense and the knowledge that it was/is in your best interest to provide proof with the statement as to strengthen your claim to truth, but then again, you are a dashtard, so maybe what's obvious to most anyone isn't so obvious to you.... |
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Question : Why is there no gold at the end of the rainbow? Answer : The Leprechan took it and sold it for Dash  Question : Why did the cryptoanarchist cross the road? Answer : Because dashers kept trying to sell him an oligarchy  I see your "political views" are "forcing" you to troll again. Actually the "joke" as cheap shilling is "forcing" me to mock the attempt. |
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Moanero cloned a scam coin (Bytecoin). Then the shady guy starting making shady changes and broke it. since monero has no real working wallet yet i would assume the development team never changed, they just changed username account. anybody in the altcoin scene since with some experience knows how monero is raped by botnets from the usual people and that the coin is basically a rebrand of bytecoin plus some wealthy investor willing to pay an army of troll postsDo you have evidence of those claims? I ask knowing you don't. |
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Question : Why is there no gold at the end of the rainbow? Answer : The Leprechan took it and sold it for Dash Question : Why did the cryptoanarchist cross the road? Answer : Because dashers kept trying to sell him an oligarchy |
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Sigh, does your doodle affirm either of the bolded questions below? Monero should be relaunched for its cripplemine scam at the beginning nonetheless.
Yep, they most certainly should. Monero : not such a perfect launch after all, in fact its anything but perfect. As of now, not one of the dashers has proved the following (or even attempted to, saying the equivalent of, "look yourself" isn't walking us through the evidence), which is when your assertion that they should relaunch would make sense. Haven't seen any of that alleged "evidence". Only evidence in here so far is that Monero was intentionally released as a cripplemine to the public rendering it a scam.
Do you have evidence that it was intentional?
Do you have evidence that it affects the coin negatively, as in invalidating any of its claims of decentralization or privacy?
If you don't have evidence of one, then you're left with the thread's title being false and a complete waste of time. As an example: I can show that dash is an oligarchy, whether intentional or not, due to the way their paynode scheme works. These systems are designed to work trustlessly, so any hiccups (intentional or not) should be invalidated by the design, not left-up to the good or bad intentions of those who are engaged with it.
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Monero should be relaunched for its cripplemine scam at the beginning nonetheless.
Yep, they most certainly should. Monero : not such a perfect launch after all, in fact its anything but perfect. As of now, not one of the dashers has proved the following (or even attempted to, saying the equivalent of, "look yourself" isn't walking us through the evidence), which is when your assertion that they should relaunch would make sense. Haven't seen any of that alleged "evidence". Only evidence in here so far is that Monero was intentionally released as a cripplemine to the public rendering it a scam.
Do you have evidence that it was intentional?
Do you have evidence that it affects the coin negatively, as in invalidating any of its claims of decentralization or privacy?
If you don't have evidence of one, then you're left with the thread's title being false and a complete waste of time. As an example: I can show that dash is an oligarchy, whether intentional or not, due to the way their paynode scheme works. These systems are designed to work trustlessly, so any hiccups (intentional or not) should be invalidated by the design, not left-up to the good or bad intentions of those who are engaged with it.
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