3.
The same, but this time the investment house defaults on you and vanishes with your money.
In this case, we still need to settle for the CFD. Note that because you are shorting BTC, you can remain owing quite a bit of money in this scenario.
For example, if you invest $10,000, and BTC-USD triples in this time (it's not a far-fetched scenario), and then the investment house defaults, you'll owe me $20,000, on top of losing your own $10,000 investment.
i would NOT want a "friend" like you to help me with my investing after reading option 3  That's your choice. Do you think I should insure my friend, for free, for the risk of default by the investment house? you introduce him to the world of bitcoin persuade him to invest $10,000 worth invest it in a risky BTC investment scheme when it defaults he loses $10,000 but stil owes you a debt for $20,000 on top ......... with friends like you ,who needs enemies |
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So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes?
assuming he goes to vegas ..... assuming he brings real ID ......(fake passports and drivers licences available everywhere thesedays ) even someone verifys they know him since childhood etc ........still doesnt mean he couldnt split with the cash or even stay put and say he was hacked and some keylogger cleaned him out so tough shit everyone hopefully not though......  |
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If they are telling the truth then it looks like their metro bank is frozen ..........
Which is something that's happened to other exchanges multiple times in the past and been sorted out. Whatever the bank's going to do, it's going to do in it's own time-frame and there's not much that Intersango or its users can do about that. if its frozen upload proof so people can see that ,shouldnt be too difficult, im sure someone at Intersango is capable of uploading a scan or a letter from someone at metro that can verify the situation ? if on the other hand ,Intersango has been gambling with everyones cash and they have a shortfall because it didnt go their way then thats NOT ok .......... If they want to prove it they can easily do so ,until then they will lose customers in droves and deservedly so ..... I will recomend everyone i know to avoid Intersango permanently ,whether this gets sorted or not im sick of being on the end of their lies as a customer Proof as in a letter/statement from the bank being uploaded in a public forum is not the brightest of ideas. That would probably cause them to nix the account in question and access to any statements and send you a check for the balance. Talking to the bank however might be a good idea, as in calling them to ask why deposits from xyz bank to Intersango haven't cleared yet. we have called them ,Metro bank is unaware of any problems related to missing deposits not being credited and /or technical failures so both excuses so far were lies of course they can not tell strangers over the phone if there is any money or not in the Intersango account so the truth will not come out until Intersango is ready ..... |
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I have a friend that is interested in investing with some of the lenders listed in this forum, but without being exposed to BTC at all. He wants the weekly 1%+ interest rates, but isn't currently interested in investing in BTC. Is a CFD the best option for him to do this? ( example) I suggested that he: 1. Buy some BTC. 2. Short BTC in the same amount via a CFD (I can be the Long partner). 3. Invest BTC in some interest bearing account. Assuming we both trust each other, this seems optimal. My email to him: So, the suggestion is that:
1. We sign a CFD contract for X BTC
2. You buy X Bitcoins
3. You invest X BTC with whichever "investment house" you want.
Now, Y months have passed, and your BTC have done 1%+ weekly (assuming interest rates haven't changed ... the investment house might change its interest in the future). You should not be effected at all by movements in the BTC-USD rate.
3 examples:
1.
If you buy 1000 BTC at 8 USD, and invest them in a 1% interest per week account, not compounding. Suppose you withdraw your interest every week and sell it.
Then 12 weeks later BTC is worth $12 each.
You withdraw your investment, and get 1000 BTC. You owe me 1000*(1-8/12) = 333 BTC. After paying me, you have 666 BTC = 8,000$, which is exactly what you put in, and you keep all the profits from interest payments. (You can keep these profits as BTC, or sell them, as you wish).
2.
Let's say you buy 1000 BTC at 8 USD, and invest them in the same 1% per week account, this time with compounding interest. You don't withdraw your interest each week.
12 weeks pass, and BTC is now $6.
You withdraw your investment + interest = 1126 BTC.
I pay you 1000*(8/6 -1) = 333 BTC, you now have 1459 BTC.
If you sell it all now, you get $8754. This is a little less than $8000 +12%, because this time you chose to compound your interest payments, and thus were a bit more exposed to the BTC-USD rate.
3.
The same, but this time the investment house defaults on you and vanishes with your money.
In this case, we still need to settle for the CFD. Note that because you are shorting BTC, you can remain owing quite a bit of money in this scenario.
For example, if you invest $10,000, and BTC-USD triples in this time (it's not a far-fetched scenario), and then the investment house defaults, you'll owe me $20,000, on top of losing your own $10,000 investment.
i would NOT want a "friend" like you to help me with my investing after reading option 3 |
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Bitcoinica 2.0 ......for anyone who missed the first installment |
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It is definitely a ponzi.
By the way, financial experts were sure Madoff's scheme must be ponzi already in the late 90s. SEC's incompetence about the basics of finance lead them to ignore the warnings.
Madoff only paid a few percentage points above market average, annually, so it took some expertise and ability to grok numbers to be sure. The kind of returns he was paying out could have come from front-running but the scale of the scheme was too large for that to have worked.
Pirate's scheme is a lot more obvious scam. I can believe those kinds of returns from a legit business but no one in their right mind who's running something that profitable will want to borrow money at such insane rates. Even if it's drug money laundering or something, it's utterly unbelievable he couldn't borrow money at credit card rates or even lower, at least at this point. If I was running something like that I'd have paid out all the astronomical-interest initial debt by now and would have set up a front that could get loans from banks at market rates.
a pyramid /ponzi can run for years, it has happened before so pirate may be able to continue raking it in and win all those bets against him .........before it collapses because mathmatically it has to collapse there is no way the bitcoin market is large enough to clear 10%+ a week or paying out nearly half a million dollars a week on interest alone |
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bitcoinica part 2 ....  |
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In another thread venom said: Give people some kind of assurance that there isn't a way that the operator of the currency can just start minting bitcoins at will. It's probably irrelevant at the moment - but imagine if BC$ was as popular as e-gold in its heyday - the owner, if he were less than honest, could essentially be an Internet millionaire spending his own currency at will around the interwebs. In theory it's possible with any digital currency - but at least, the theory behind the digital gold currencies is that if all else fails, you can call them up and redeem physical gold (I'm referring to c-gold, e-gold, Pecunix, GoldMoney, and probably many others) so you have something 'tangible' as backup. What is BC backed by? Just saying, these might be things that a skeptic will ask himself before wanting to use this currency. So the short answer is that BC is backed by mathematics/cryptography and the "wisdom of crowds"; assuming there's no flaw in the algorithms, and assuming that there is no grand conspiracy of more than half of the BC nodes, it is impossible to inflate the currency or make fraudulent payments. I don't believe in grand conspiracies, so that doesn't worry me. And I can't see any flaw in the algorithms... but that's where I'm skeptical (there might be bugs in the BC code, but those can and will be easily fixed). Are there any professional cryptographers looking at Bitcoin? Or will they only get interested if/when Bitcoin gets popular? Great reward in address "1DkyBEKt5S2GDtv7aQw6rQepAvnsRyHoYM" if a problem exists with the crypto. http://blockchain.info/address/1DkyBEKt5S2GDtv7aQw6rQepAvnsRyHoYMaha .pirates personal account |
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I thought of maybe shifting the decimal place so we would end up with 210,000,000 bitcoins instead of 21,000,000 bitcoins and keeping the transaction fee at BTC0.0005 So everyone's wallet goes up by *10. Then we can still easily deal with whole integers called a bitcoin instead of a milliBitcoins once the BTC/EUR/USD value plateaus over $100 a coin.
When the block reward is cut to 6.25 or 3.15 the miners will figure out which transactions get priority......quite quickly id imagine |
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Translation: "I believe that bitcoin needs more drug users to buy into bitcoin in order for the market price to go up. Let's promote illegal activity in bitcoin guys!"
I stand by my tripod statement. Bitcoin needs 3 legs to stand on, Drugs, Sex and Gambling. SR covers the 1st nicely but I wish it was not the only one that did so (all your eggs in one basket etc). Sex is getting there, seeing more and more cam girls etc. I really hope this takes off - my current speel: Tired of your partner seeing (foot/gay/bi/ladyboy/scat)-fetish on your CC bill - USE BITCOINS !!!. Gambling - while still small Id call what we currently have a success for the community size we have. VHS won over BETA mainly because of porn, bitcoin will win its place as a currency because of Drugs, Sex and Gambling. this the pay 4 porn industry is being killed now because there is so much free porn ,i wouldnt rely on people paying for porn to sustain ANY business or currency as long as google and bittorrent can find you all the porn in the world ....... true, but you would be surprised at how many people still do it. Granted that most people that use bitcoin are savvy enough to not pay for porn. Still, Gambling with bitcoins has a lot of room to grow. in the late 1990's Porn stars were making more money than they could spend ,literally women were getting several thousand dollars and the men upwards of 500 for a day I saw a program about it which said the industry is basically dead in the water now for a lot of reasons but mainly because anything new is "shared" rapidly and this generation have more or less figured out how to download and stream everything and nobody has fiqured out a way to stop new content being shared for free so i wouldnt like to invest in the online porn industry expecting it to get better future generations will be more internet savvy and competent than us so i also think gambling is a safer bet than porn going forward |
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Translation: "I believe that bitcoin needs more drug users to buy into bitcoin in order for the market price to go up. Let's promote illegal activity in bitcoin guys!"
I stand by my tripod statement. Bitcoin needs 3 legs to stand on, Drugs, Sex and Gambling. SR covers the 1st nicely but I wish it was not the only one that did so (all your eggs in one basket etc). Sex is getting there, seeing more and more cam girls etc. I really hope this takes off - my current speel: Tired of your partner seeing (foot/gay/bi/ladyboy/scat)-fetish on your CC bill - USE BITCOINS !!!. Gambling - while still small Id call what we currently have a success for the community size we have. VHS won over BETA mainly because of porn, bitcoin will win its place as a currency because of Drugs, Sex and Gambling. this the pay 4 porn industry is being killed now because there is so much free porn ,i wouldnt rely on people paying for porn to sustain ANY business or currency as long as google and bittorrent can find you all the porn in the world ....... |
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Bitcoin supply is constant (until the end of this year that is)
People joining and using bitcoins is a growing number.
Unless a big issue/flaw/scam goes into wild, I expect the price to continue rising.
Ive been trying to introduce more people to the benefits of bitcoin .......but many of them STILL cant see the benefits outside of buying drugs on silk road or avoiding paying tax etc Until we get some major acceptance ,i dont know if there are enough geeks willing to download 3 GB blockchains and put up with multi level encryption to use bitcoins everyday and we need vendors that are giving incentives to put up with the hassle of learning encrypted wallets its just not easy to buy a happy meal or put gas in your car or buy a new pair of shoes with bitcoin ................ yet thats the major drawback ,its still just too complicated for the average idiot to understand but i hope that gets simplified over time  |
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If they are telling the truth then it looks like their metro bank is frozen ..........
Which is something that's happened to other exchanges multiple times in the past and been sorted out. Whatever the bank's going to do, it's going to do in it's own time-frame and there's not much that Intersango or its users can do about that. if its frozen upload proof so people can see that ,shouldnt be too difficult, im sure someone at Intersango is capable of uploading a scan or a letter from someone at metro that can verify the situation ? if on the other hand ,Intersango has been gambling with everyones cash and they have a shortfall because it didnt go their way then thats NOT ok .......... If they want to prove it they can easily do so ,until then they will lose customers in droves and deservedly so ..... I will recomend everyone i know to avoid Intersango permanently ,whether this gets sorted or not im sick of being on the end of their lies as a customer |
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It looks like Mt. Gox is responding, but if they learn anything look at all the frustration by customers here trying to get their money.
According to Mt. Gox's website :
Withdrawals typically take 2-5 full business days to reach your bank, provided that you have included all required information such as your full name and address as it appears on your bank statement.
So, I requested a withdrawal on July 17th. After not hearing anything for a week, despite paying an outrageous $25 dollar wire transfer fee, I submitted a ticket.
To submit the ticket, I have to logon with my account, and create an another "Support ID".
After creating this account which is linked with my ID and email, I submitted a ticket.
I got a reply that stated
Thank you for contacting us. Before we may action your request we require the following information:
Mt.Gox account number (E.g. MTG#####X):
First/Last Name:
Bank/Institution Name:
Amount/Currency:
Transaction ID:
Date/Time the transfer was made:
So I supplied all that information even though both accounts should be linked and they could look it up.
Finally I submitted the ticket only to be told:
Usually it will take 12 business days for the International wire transfer withdrawal to be processed.
At the very least, it's not consistent. However, its very frustrating and all you users out there trying to get money from Mt. Gox should be warned that it is not a smooth process.
I still have not received my money.
it could be worse ,Intersango is now Keeping DEPOSITS as well as withdrawls so you cant take money out ,cant get them to credit money to your account they already accepted and cant buy any BTC since they deny recieving money they recieved a week ago and say their account is under investigation (4th or 5th DIFFERNT excuse this week now of why the deposits are not being added to the Intersango acount) |
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I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along. I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP  and guessing that I probably won't get my money back. I think it's time for a scammer tag for R- 2 months?!?! But you can reverse the charges. If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible. Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse. I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference. Great, a credit card is even easier. Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges. R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud. Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges. Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next. Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. ) you believe he should pay you 70 usd back and you will return the 4.5 btc and the transaction will have never happened ..............or ........you would like to keep BOTH since the bitcoin /USD value has changed and you feel he owes you more than 70 usd ? |
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i bought some cuban cigars from pirate once ,but they came from ..........aww shit ! |
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I bought a GPU from pirate once... The package came from PA and not TX.
ever hear of drop shipping ? |
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Problem is a bank can halt all account activity if a few tx are flagged as fraudulent. Not defending Intersango, just saying.
Since btc transactions are irreversible, it's tempting for some scammers to try to get some free btc. by comitting fraud with the bank transfers..
Just like conventional financial institutions are constantly bombarded with fraud and hacking attempts, the same is going to be true in the Bitcoin world. I suspect that many people grossly underestimate how frequent those attempts are. It's always going to be a matter of trying to stay one step ahead of the game. If they are telling the truth then it looks like their metro bank is frozen .......... My account is has made other transfers to metro before so i would not be in the group that "may be using somone elses bank acc to make a fraudulant transfer" ....... I have transfered over 3000GBP to intersango before and the service worked and it cleared inside 2 hours Now im waiting nearly a week on pocket change to clear when transfers are supposed to be several times per day so i cant see anything positive in this situation ,their bank account has been frozen or they dont have the money to pay etc spings to mind ...... Neither of which is good |
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No.
I think the purpose of this thread is to focus attention on the date Aug 14, to make people believe there's still time. The actual topic should be "yesterday's" interest pay-out. It was not a normal, simultaneous pay-out at all. Some coins saw multiple investor addresses on the same day; for example, Bitcoinmax re-investment ended up with the next customer as soon as it returned. Multiple payments look like interest that was sent much later than anticipated.
See as an example transaction c9a38ef5482a24575d9ff38cd76aa524a8ec2f498836a2b98f42e352e30874cf -- two simultaneous payments that look like interest, but 23 hours later?
from what i understand bitcoinmax is not run by pirate himself so those coins would have went into the personal wallet of pay.btc first if someone wants a withdrawl of 100 BTC at the same time as someone else is investing 100BTC ,it wouldnt make sense for payb.tc to upload the first 100 BTC from the investor and then download another 100 btc to pay the withdrawl it makes sense to give 100 coins that just arrived in the personal wallet to the person that wants to take out 100 coins rather than pointlessly run it all through the btcst account just to take it out again immediately ......unless im missing something |
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