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3601  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-10-17 78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study on: October 17, 2012, 07:02:26 PM
This means that 22% is actively used in the bitcoin economy

Except that it doesn't mean that.

That's the thing about a pseudonymous digital currency -- the blockchain data reveals so little about its usage.

We know that Mt. Gox and other exchanges use cold storage.  Thus the coins moving to and from the exchange's hot wallet represents a lot of monetary velocity, and the vast majority of the bitcoin value is held in static coins in cold storage.

Individuals might follow a similar pattern.  A big chunk of their coins are stored in a secure manner (on a paper wallet, or air gap system) and left untouched, and a smaller amount used on a mobile or wallet used for daily spending from a standard, network-connected computer.

Because Bitcoin works not just as a payment network but as a currency, even the exchanges won't show the degree of commerce occurring. Online gambling through SatoshiDICE, for instance, is not cashed out to USDs, and players don't necessarily need to use an exchange to get bitcoins to play.  So much of those flows likely never touch any exchanges (except for players buying bitcoins or cashing out if they were a big winner perhaps).  

Other merchants though will still route bitcoin revenues through the exchanges.  Coinabul, for instance, at a current revenue rate approaching a quarter-million USD worth of trading each month (based on numbers from an interview by Julia of @DGCMagazine), converts revenues to dollars right away after each sale, apparently.

As Bitcoin moves up the supply chain though (and/or is used for salaries, paying dividends, etc.) more and more of those bitcoin revenues will remain as bitcoins without landing at the exchanges.

So it is going to be really tough to measure the blockchain, or even monitor it for trends, to tell what really is occurring with the Bitcoin economy.
3602  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitMarket.Eu - ownership changed (in a way) on: October 17, 2012, 05:59:22 PM
using Google as an Authenticator is like using the Russian Mafia as en Escrow

The Google Authenticator app (or any other common OTP method) doesn't communicate with Google.  It has nothing to do with your Google account.

The only external communications from these OTP methods are that they need to [edit: might] sync their time with a time server (nearly all of which are not hosted / controlled by Google).

 - http://www.quora.com/Cryptography/Does-Google-Authenticator-share-data-with-Google/answer/Steve-Weis
3603  Other / Off-topic / Re: Block Reward Halving + BFL Equipment = What for Mining / Price In Your Opinion? on: October 17, 2012, 05:09:15 PM
Firstly, this post belongs in either Speculation or Mining Speculation,  [Edit: I see that has happened already.]

The combination of the reward being split in two and the hash rate skyrocketing is going to have effects on mining operations and market price.
What do you think the outcome will be.

This is a prediction, and predictions are hard -- especially about the future.  Nobody knows, but I'll take a stab at it.

Day 0 is expected roughly around November 30th, plus or minus a week:

Day T-10: Four of the five ASIC manufacturers claim to be finalizing the design / optimizing / trying to resolve some nagging power issue / whatever, yet not a single person that pre-paid for an ASIC has one in-hand.
Day T-8: Difficulty of 3.5 million and exchange rate of $15 mean profitability is still acceptable for GPU miners paying average electric rates or less.
Day T-5: A lot more "N Ghash/s for sale" listings will start to appear [Edit: as-in total liquidation of N GHash/s of capacity]
Day T-4: Difficulty for Litecoin rises as miners experiment, causing there to be no chance of profit from Litecoin mining either.
Day T-3: Block 209,664 -- last difficulty adjustment before the block subsidy reward drops (fact, not a prediction)
Day T-1: Last day that anywhere near 7,200 BTC is produced (fact, not a prediction)
Day 0: Block 210,000 hits and only about 3,600 are produced (fact, not a prediction)
Day 1: Blocks slow to about 11 minutes as some GPU miners realize basic math and power down.
Day 2: Exchange rate volatile, both up and down, but returns to previous levels -- about $15.
Day 3: Anger and vitriol from GPU miners who are still "underwater" on their GPUs purchased in 2012.
Day 4: Anger and vitriol from FPGA miners who somehow didn't realize that "much more efficient" doesn't protect against a revenue drop of 50%
Day 5: Blocks slow to about 12 minutes as more GPU miners realize the payouts are dismal and begin to proceed past "denial", the first step in the grieving process,
Day 6: ASIC hardware developers see an even greater number of prepayments for hardware.  Much gnashing of teeth on the forums.
Day 7: Hashing on CoinLab's GPU network grows tremendously as miners cash in their built-up loyalty credits.
Day 8: Nearly all NVidia GPUs that were used for mining are now either computing with CoinLab or have been decommissioned.
Day 9: Gamers elated over some really good AMD and NVidia graphics cards available "really, really cheap" on eBay.
Day 10: Blocks slow to about 13 minutes, as not only did the block reward subsidy drop but so did the frequency of blocks -- making mining in aggregate bring in even less revenue each day.
Day 11: Speculators hoping for the "doubling" of the exchange rate realize it didn't happen (or perhaps already happened, from $5-ish, over the summer), and sell off a little  Exchange rate drops to $12-ish.
Day 12: ASIC manfuacturers claim to be finalizing the design / optimizing / trying to resolve some nagging power issue / whatever, yet not a single person that pre-paid for an ASIC has one in-hand.
Day 13: Block 211,680 - difficulty adjusts.  Drops 15%.  Back to one block every ten minutes.
Day 14: Mining operators are still seeing electric bills from the previous month's consumption.  Even more anger, vitriol and gnashing of teeth.
Day 15: Christmas-related activities overtake bitcoin as being the event more important to many mining operators.
Day 25: The daily "average price" remains in a range between $12 and $15.
Day 26: Many "slightly used" GPU cards land in wrapped boxes under trees.  Others, particularly those who had a larger investment in their GPU rigs, are using the phrase "bah, humbug" more than they had in any prior holiday season.
Day 27: Difficult adjusts, dropping another 5%.  Yawn.
Day 30: ASIC manufacturers claim to be finalizing the design / optimizing / trying to resolve some nagging power issue / whatever, yet not a single person that pre-paid for an ASIC has one in-hand.

3604  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Why use bitcoins instead of USD or another currency? on: October 17, 2012, 08:55:36 AM
When you want to send a message to somebody, do you send a message to Fedex telling them to write a letter to Mr. X so they can post it through regular mail and give the fees to the one who receives it?

No, it would be stupid, and Internet invented email for that.

But when you pay online, you send a message to VISA/Mastercard/Paypal telling them to send money to Mr. X using their private transfer network and give the fees to the one who receive it. Add to this that this company possess and keeps all your private informations and transactions informations while keeping all the rights to give you or cancel your credit card as they wish.

We think that this method is pretty stupid, and Internet invented Bitcoin for that.

That's a fantastic response!

Here's an infographic of just one type of transaction (online credit card) and only one side of it (the missing part is where the consumer pays the credit card company.



With bitcoin, it is person-to-person.

I couldn't find a good existing diagram to show the process for Bitcoin.  This is kind of close:

3605  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mining & Grid Computing on: October 17, 2012, 08:48:18 AM
Also, who saw the power bill on a BOA building?

Well, the City of NY did.  And they shared it, indirectly:



Who saw the aggregate power of the miners (this is harder to believe)?

Actually, that's pretty easy to calculate.  We know the difficulty and thus how many hashes are needed.    And thus we can tell how many ATI 5970s it would take.  With that, we know how much electricity each 5970 draws, and thus can estimate fairly accurately how much electricity is consumed (presuming all mining is on 5970s).

Here's the raw time series data on difficulty:
 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmcTCtjBoRWUdHVRMHpqWUJValI1RlZiaEtCT1RrQmc

the whole Bitcoin network uses less power than 1 Bank of America building. last time this came up.

This?


Looks like the BoA building is estimated to use 6.5 megawatts of electricity.

Coincidentally, that one building would be just a little less than all Bitcoin mining combined.

The problem is, we don't know the breakdown between FPGAs and GPUs (and maybe some ASICs even).  The "one B of A building" was when difficulty was 1.5 million.  At over 3.0 million, Bitcoin is now at "two B of A buildings", assuming every hash is done on power-hungry GPUs.

ASICs could push out GPUs (for all except those with free or really cheap  electricity) and the total network consumption drop well below the "one B fo A building" metric once again.
3606  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [Ann] CoinDL - Buy downloads with Bitcoin: Now with Pay What You Want + YouTube on: October 17, 2012, 07:26:57 AM
Is the preview for audio working?

I'm not hearing anything or seeing that it is trying to play, using Chrome on Linux.
3607  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: bitcoin wallet intertrading platform on: October 17, 2012, 04:32:00 AM
In the future, trades will probably go back on and forth - the blockchain will be pretty massive,

Not relative to even today's computing, communications and storage capacities -- nonetheless those we'll see in the future.

and it'll generally be used for large orders (like buying a car), or platform trades.

Or a donut, soda or candy bar.

Here's the recently-updated Scalability page on the Bitcoin wiki:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Now granted, we aren't there today and could easily run into problems with the current Bitcoin network if SatoshiDICE were to triple its transaction levels.
3608  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How will the bitcoin network handle a large amount of very small transactions? on: October 17, 2012, 04:23:57 AM
Bitcoin likely won't scale well to micro transactions (measured in USD cents)

Correct, even with improvements that will let Bitcoin scale to levels way beyond what PayPal and VISA networks see today, it still isn't well suited for payments worth just a penny or fraction of a penny.

Here's the recently-updated Scalability page on the Bitcoin wiki:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Also, there's an alternative approach for using Bitcoin for microtransactions described here:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party
3609  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-10-17 zdnet.com - Mobile phones the only tech to rid dirty money: Expert on: October 17, 2012, 04:00:15 AM
Quote
"In a country like Norway, which is by no means a lawless country, something like 70 percent of all the money in circulation is only used for criminal purposes," Birch said

That can't be accurate.  70%?
3610  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: TX Unconfirmed - Hours/Days on: October 17, 2012, 03:12:03 AM

Unconfirmed tx going on for about 10 hours now issued from blockchain.info wallet.

There's a tx fee included.  Is there such an element of chance that no miners have picked up this tx?  If so, lame.

If the number shown by BitcoinCharts is correct, there is currently a way high number of unconfirmed transactions (it shows 12K trxs, nearly 10K of which as being "low priority").

If that is true then there is probably spamming of the blockchain occurring -- record levels of it perhaps.

Generally transactions with a fee paid are confirmed fairly quickly, and the only ones of these that aren't are those that have some characteristic that puts them in the slow lane, along with the spam-like transactions.

For instance, if your transaction includes outputs of another transaction which hasn't confirmed, then your transaction isn't even considered, regardless of how many fees you've paid.   So the solution to that is to not use as inputs any unconfirmed transaction.

Another instance is where your transaction is large (as in data size, ... where it consists of many "spam-like" microtransactions).  If that is the case, then a higher fee will need to be paid.

Does your transaction exhibit any of these oddities that might contribute to it not confirming promptly?
3611  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Few suggestions regarding Satoshi client on: October 17, 2012, 01:55:08 AM
4. Wallet encryption should be mandatory.

If I had to bet, I would gamble on the likelihood of more coins lost over the years because people don't remember their passphrase (or lose the piece of paper where it was recorded) than would have been lost to hacks if there was no passphrase encryption.

That being said, I have passphrase encryption on my wallet, and the passphrase secured on paper along with other important documents.
3612  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: 30-150 Btc for ZAR either bank transfer or cash in South Africa on: October 17, 2012, 01:31:48 AM
Hi,

Anyone in South Africa looking to buy some BTC?  Looking for local people to trade with.  Willing to sell for current rate or slightly less, make me an offer.

I see there is a Facebook community page for Bitcoin South Africa:
 - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitcoin-South-Africa/314826138535326

And listing on LocalBitcoins might help put you in contact with a buyer:
 - http://localbitcoins.com/country/za
3613  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Mt.Gox Yubikey dead: account not yet unlinked on: October 16, 2012, 11:52:46 PM
Two more weeks have passed since then: no unlink page, no unlinked account.

I would open a new ticket with their support, explain that the wait has been longer than requested and that you remain without access to your account and your funds.
3614  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin.de on: October 16, 2012, 08:47:25 PM
Hi! I'm new in Bitcoining and searching for a good place to trade bitcoins in Austria/Europe.

You have bitcoins and are looking to trade them for Euro?

There are a lot of options.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Selling_bitcoins

For SEPA transfer, BitSTAMP probably has the highest volume.

For person-to-person transactions, there is a growing number of options through LocalBitcoins:

 - http://www.LocalBitcoins.com
3615  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Imported private key on: October 16, 2012, 08:26:39 PM
I have an online wallet

An online wallet is going to be either a hosted (shared) EWallet or a hybrid EWallet.

The hosted (shared) EWallet category includes Paytunia, Instawallet, Coinbase, exchange accounts (e.g., your BTC account at Mt. Gox, Bitfloor), or accounts with specific merchants (e.g., your BTC account with bitZino, bitMit.net, etc.).

None of these hosted wallets will provide you with the private key for your deposit addresses.

Another type of online wallet is a hybrid EWallet where you hold the private keys but the service is used for the spend transactions.  Examples of hybrid EWallets are Blockchain.info/wallet and StrongCoin.   You can see your private keys for your addresses in your hybrid EWallet, and transfer these keys elsewhere.

There are also mobile clients where the keys are stored on the mobile and not with a back-end host and the method of getting the private keys varies depending on the approach the mobile app uses.

Which type of service are you using, a hosted (shared) EWallet or a hybrid EWallet?  (or, for more specific assistance, what EWallet service specifically are you referring to?)

I decoded the private key used by the online wallet and imported it into a new wallet in my software.

"Decoded"?  Do you simply mean that you copied the private key (or exported it) from a hybrid EWallet (e.g., Blockchain.info/wallet) and then imported that key into the Bitcoin.org client?

3616  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: So, what happens when bitcoins stop being produced? on: October 16, 2012, 08:09:39 PM
after enough people die and/or lose their wallets. Will we always switch to another type of 'coin'?

For the person who loses their wallet (e.g., forgot the passphrase, loss of hardware and insufficient backup, etc.), those coins no longer circulate.  That is unfortunate for the owner of those coins, but to the rest of those holding bitcoins the impact is neutral to just slightly positive (as the value of each bitcoin increases slightly).

There are no other decentralized digital currencies in the same ballpark as bitcoin (proof of work, where the level of work needed to be disruptful are well beyond the capabilities of a single actor).
3617  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Cupcakes in San Francisco on: October 16, 2012, 07:36:38 PM
They're using BitPay's iPad POS solution--very slick!

Probably the exact same iPad they are using for Square register as well?  (i.e., there was no incremental cost for accepting Bitcoin?)

 - https://squareup.com/directory/cups-and-cakes-bakery
3618  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitZino - HTML5 Bitcoin Casino - Provably Fair on: October 16, 2012, 07:09:23 PM
I've had to contact customer support a few times in the past for password rests and have nothing but great things to report.


I'ld like to see two-factor authentication as an option for withdrawals and for changes to the account security (e.g., removing the OTP, or changing the e-mail address tied to the account.)

A plea to exchanges ... lets do 2 factor right!
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109424.0

I don't think OTP is necessary for login though (or at least that would be a second option for how to secure an account using OTP).  Needing OTP for each login makes it inconvenient, whereas I would rarely withdraw or change the security settings.

3619  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitZino :: Provably Fair HTML5 Bitcoin Casino - Now featuring Craps! on: October 16, 2012, 07:02:13 PM
the base currency settings need some re-working, which we are definitely doing.

In demonstrating this for a newly registered account, the amount of funds added was 0.1 but then trying to play video poker the buy in screen must have been for bitcoins and thus no amount that I entered was valid as I had less than a 1 BTC balance.   I clicked Lower min bet and once I was in mBTC then it worked as expected.

Perhaps on a new account, the initial deposit should determine which default min bet amount is used? (e.g., if I deposit 0.1 BTC then set the min bet to 1 mBTC)

3620  Economy / Securities / Re: [ASSETS-OTC] ART-OTC new contract - DRAFT on: October 16, 2012, 06:04:08 PM
used to buy equipment, materials, parts and cover other equipment related expenses.

So the art studio has the need for equipment.  The studio doesn't need to own the equipment but the equipment needs to be located in the studio and made available for use by the artists.  

Then just come up with an offer.  

The studio operator can offer to host the equipment, and then pay to the owner of the equipment a certain amount (a fixed monthly amount, or based on usage?).

That way there is no capital at risk by the owner of the equipment.  And for the owner of the equipment, the revenues (equipment rental or usage fees paid) could exceed the expenses (maintenance on the equipment, cost of the capital to purchase and install the equipment).

Does this help towards solving the problem?

[Edited for clarity]
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