@digaran
I'm just trying to find a solution where we both can agree on. That's what LoyceV also wants us to do.
We can also wait for a call that is given from 2 or 3 Top 10 or 20 DT members and both of us have to accept that.
Repeated rants don't bring any solution, its just sowing discord.

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Another suggestion for mikeywith, where I'm ready to concede ground:

Lets lock this topic until 01.01.2024 that the dust settles.
You can watch my feedbacks and trust list changes until then.
If you think, from now on until 01.01.2024 there would be "abuse" according to you, you could open this topic again, presenting evidence.
The outcomes:
- If the evidence is weak, DT will judge that accordingly.
- If the evidence is true and DT confirms this, I'll accept further distrusts from DT members.
- If there's no abuse, the topic will remain closed and we will move on.

You could review my trust feedback and trust list any time, from every entry that happens from now on until then. That way, you could interfere into my DT decisions for some time.
So you see, I'm ready to concede massive ground to find a solution here. I'm stepping back from the demand that any interference into my DT decisions is not acceptable.
I'm stepping back from my demand.
So, as I've said I'm ready to concede this massive ground to you.
How about that?

I know your opinion and I agree to disagree. Let's move on without misleading statements, lies and name-calling. This topic is a wall of 7 pages now.



I disagree to the way how you are expressing this by using emotionally loaded words once again. That's not helpful to find common ground.
But I will accept your call that you distrust me and I will live with it.


So, what about this call?
Let's find a solution, where we both can agree on:  

I was trying to give you the benefit of doubt for a very long time. But after all the things piling up from late 2022 on, this was very hard to give a pass at some point.
I have no problem if any of my posts gets criticism but this has to be in a civil way and if you are replying in my self-moderated topic of our campaign, you have to accept the rules of self-moderation. Removed posts were even allowed to post again but with proper German language, so no opinion was stifled. Your suggestion that opinions were stifled in that self-moderated topic is simply wrong.
Ignoring the self-moderated rules repeatedly despite me giving reminders of that Bitcointalk rules, is a Bitcointalk nettiquette violation.

I hope the above statement answers your question.
If we could sort out this one, what in general caused this whole drama, it's beneficial to see how this can prevented in the future.  

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My call would be that'll try to get along with all members, even if we disagree.
Two suggestions:

- We can keep the topic open and have a civil discussion, without misleading accusations.
- We can close the topic and DT has now 6 pages to read up on. In this case I would give in on this and give mikeywith the last reply in this topic before it's getting closed.

I'm okay with both of the above solutions.  

When you are making accusations here and accusing other members as well, you also need to show the whole picture. We excluded you because already way sooner previously back in 2022, you repeatedly opposed the Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board in the german section, where we lined out how important it is to avoid unnecessary Denglish. The campaign was launched by me and co sponsored by GazetaBitcoin.
You came in our self-moderated topic, violated our rules multiple times despite my explanation that the self-moderated rules need to be applied but you ignored this repeatedly. That was disrespectful, especially after doing this repeatedly.
The deleted posts are archived.
We can keep the accusations going here but that would lead to the exact issues, why the discussion was always heated.


Definitely, pointless fights, one-sided accusations, heated discussions and similar are a waste of time. I fully agree to your quote.
You are right, that we should focus on things to provide interesting content to the Forum, especially now that a new price cycle is about to start ahead of the halving.  

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When there are accusations against me and other members, I will address them, showing the whole picture. That's part of the opinion building process.
But after all, I agree that it's important to remember that even when there are different opinions about an issue, we need to agree to disagree.  

Definitely!
Thanks for your comment and let's start from here to settle this further.
If we are willing to make improvements and find a solution, we will make improvements and find a solution.

Like mindrust said, this has to come to a conclusion.
So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

The "coming out" of you and your friends was already addressed in this post (scroll down a bit in the post).
The problem with you and your friends is that you can't face any criticism for your bold claims, like documented here.
When you are criticized, you are immediately claiming that you are getting silenced or whatever victim card you play then.
Criticism is not silencing, it's part of the debate.

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

And Unknown01, I'm not "attacking" anyone in my post here, but I'm well allowed to address accusations against me.
It's not helpful that certain members of our local board always play the "victim card".


Thanks again for your troll post:

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I've also thought about another option, how we could solve our issue:



From what we have right now, it seems that proposals brought up by both of us (mikeywith and me) don’t have any chance to find an agreement.

If we can't find common ground there, it seems this can only be settled by a 3rd party call. LoyceV and yahoo are both high ranked DT members with Top 10 community inclusions. They’ll make a call here and we will agree to that call.
LoyceV or yahoo will then check if both of us will play by the rules of that call.
Of course, either LoyceV or yahoo need to agree that they are willing to do this. Both have a good judgement and experience.

Maybe that's another possibility, where both of us can agree.

I really don't know what's your end goal but keep showing the community that your comments are solely to create drama, spam and sowing discord.
That way it's very easy for anyone to spot, that the truth is usually the opposite of that what you are saying in your troll posts.  

You need to improve your trolling because even cryptohunter had a better trolling that was at least funny sometimes.


Anyways, I'll lock this topic now because it's time to get over the drama. 

That's going nowhere, mikeywith if you keep to continue your full demands, as you've done already so often in this thread.
I'm willing to give in, agree to yahoo's approach and after that, you are coming with your full demand that you can dictate which feedbacks I'm having to remove. That's just not helpful.
And that's not something a sane DT member can agree to because DT is a decentralized feedback system. No individual is allowed to dictate anyone anything.
However, the call from yahoo is reasonable and I'm willing to follow his approach.

In this scenario, the community will decide. Community decisions are never bad and I'm willing to apply the community feedback for any of what happens from now on. I'm okay, when I'm getting excluded for the time being like yahoo did above, if that helps to settle our issue. You can distrust me as well, using your DT vote against my feedbacks. I would have to accept any distrust I get.
Furthermore, I will consider community feedback like the one from LoyceV here:


And I'm willing to lock my other topic about you: mikeywith needs to grow a thicker skin regarding DT issues.
Edit: done already to keep it going to find a solution here


I believe the call from yahoo is reasonable to approach this:

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So,

@yahoo, I'm accepting your call. If you think anyone of us is violating your call, feel free to leave a comment here, I'm ready to accept your terms.  

Looks like the community has already decided that the "petition" doesn't has any Merit.
And how often digaran wants to prove that he's just here for trolling and fueling any conflict?
What an unnecessary drama to spend our time on the forum for.

Regarding my distribution of Merit, I'm alwys trying to be fair, to reward quality posts and, of course, to listen to community feedback.
As even the OP doesn't provide any post, where I've distributed an unjustified amount of Merit to, I think there's everything said about the credibility of the "petition".
It's just because digaran wants to continue his trolling.

As said by other people in the topic, I'm a Merit source for a long time, I'm trying to reward quality posts, new, interesting and helpful content and members who are trying to show some effort to contribute to the forum. That's deserving Merit in my opinion.

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Thanks for your feedback, mole0815 and despite we have some fundamental disagreements, I would say, that you are distributing Merit mostly fairly as well.
We might have a different understanding to evaluate a post and I'm more trying to focus on well-thought quality posts, each Merit source is unique, as long as there's no abuse.

I trust your call here that you did not consult with digaran, mole0815.
We might have disagreements but I trust you here.

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Thanks for the feedback everyone else here.  
I'll continue to do a good job by rewarding quality posts.  

Thanks for the feedback, yahoo62278.

DT needs to be more rational that's right. I'm open to listen to the community if mikeywith is willing to do the same.
As DT is a decentralized community feedback system, I believe we should listen to the call of the community.
I think you are a long time DT member and believe your feedback can help here to get this solved, move on and dedicate our time to more important things.
As said before I'm willing to accept any outcome DT will conclude.

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

I'm not against any religion, I'm against people abusing their religion.
Islamic extremism doesn't mean Islam.
Christianity doesn't mean "let's repeat the crusades".
But as said by mikeywith, it's not helpful to start a P&S discussion here. We have some nice replies in that topic, how P&S discussions are creating big, big drama.  
We have different believes and of course, that's very legitimate.  

Neutral trust is not controversial at all like you are going to paint it here. Everyone can read up on the issue or are you the one here who's trying to stifle the right to point this out via reference links, where everyone can read up on the issue?
I think everyone is capable to make their own decision and research about this and can judge accordingly.

What you are calling "intimidate others via PM": it's not allowed to try to sort out issues via PM first before bringing the big hammer in Reputation?
You might interprete that as "intimidating" but in reality this is a chance to avoid big drama, to sort it out via PM. But we know this, some people here like the big drama, especially trolls. Keep feeding them!
Of course, we can jump right to the drama in Reputation and intimidate people here if they do something you don't like, like adding you to their distrust list, like you "punished" me for adding you there.  
Now we know that if someone will disagree with you and add you to their distrust list, they are at risk to get a slap in the face from you with a big drama in Reputation!
That's whats intimidating and punishing, not trying to solve the issue via PM!

Also read up about the abuse on the German section. I've linked the topics already, where these shitposters are involved in all sorts of abuse, yesterday.
Most of the level-headed members in the German section have given in to the abusers or are gone. Because plagiarism is not enforced, because political troll Spam is derailing the discussions on purpose, because its funny to throw the Ukrainians under the bus, because shitposting is stylish and profitable and much more and in case someone dares to criticize this, he will be met with accusations from the very same shitposters to be against their right of expression. They are always playing the victim card.
I've contacted a longtime member of the german section this morning on Telegram, linked him the discussion and he said that these folks are completely lost. I had to agree to him as he's totally right.
Of course, he doesn't want to comment in the German section anymore as any criticism of our abusers, whose feedback you can see in my feedback list, will be met with harsh force. Yet, they are playing the victim card and you are enabling them.

It's up to you if you enable proven abusers and plagiarizers on the Forum because that will destroy the forum.
Consider their lies, read up about their past abuses!

Thats why I've left the neutral feedbacks with reference links on their accounts!!!

@digaran, thanks for pouring more oil into the fire!
That's always helpful in a discussion!

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As a German I can tell you that this approach is, well... catastrophic.
If you read up on WWII and Hitler.

Thanks for showing that you are not accepting any DT decision that doesn't favor your selfish outcome.
You are not the one to dictate how I have to compile my trust list and how I use DT! That's my decision, no matter if you approve it or disapprove it.
That's a decentralized DT decision and we have to accept either outcome.

If I'm removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If I'm not removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are not removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.

That's a big part of DT to accept either outcome of the community.
Less drama, more community decision, which we have to accept.

If you think, it's a trust system abuse (which is a serious accusation) feel free to vote me out of DT.
If someone else thinks, it's a trust system abuse, they can do the same.

On the other hand, you can imagine that I'm not someone who'll accept any interference in my trust list compilation or my sent feedback.
Going after me personally, is what you have done repeatedly in this thread, even after there were reasonable solutions how to selttle this, showing that you have a big hate against me and that's what driving you accusations against me. You might not agree how I use trust but you have to accept it, that this is my decision. If you think that is right or wrong, you can express this by voting me out. Other can do as well if they think so.
Resorting to name-calling doesn't help anyone.
On the other hand:
I believe you are trying to dictate and "punish" me (LOL) for adding you on my distrust list and how I use the neutral trust. If you disapprove that, vote me out of DT, as I'll keep you out of my trust list because your judgement is horrible in my opinion. Everyone is entitled to make their opinion themselves.

So, let DT decide this.
The whole decision is not to us, decision is to be made by the whole DT.
Simpe solution, how DT should be working anyways.

And everyone has to accept the decision of DT and live with it.

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If there are accusations against me, I'll address them.

When you are showing up here, mole0815, I will address this, of course.
I'm allowed to voice my opinion in a civil manner, that's not controversial.


I'm not here to cause a big drama, I'm known for bringing good contributions to Bitcointalk.  
Because I consider that causing unnecessary drama is also something, that DT will consider in their decisions.

However, I will accept either outcome what DT decides.

I could not care less if I'm DT or not. If someone doesn't like my DT position, remove me, if someone think, I'm valuable in DT, add me.
This is so simple and I'll accept either call from DT. That's how a decentralized system should be treated.

I can definitely agree to your approach as I'm always someone, who's open to give someone the benefit of doubt.
If someone doesn't like me, my trust list compilation, my trust entries, that's fine. Voice your opinion and vote me out of DT.

I would not care less, it's how DT works.
And I will accept whatever decision DT will come up with.

After all, DT is a decentralized system.
Who does not submite his vote, should not complain.

So yes, I'm open to fullfill the suggestion from LoyceV.

I'm not guilty of that but you are.  

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I will tell it everyone here how it is, mole0815.
You have zero chance after all your cover-ups of this shit.

I have invested so much time to provide quality to the forum.
I have invested so much BTC to give everyone a little of my sig campaign earnings, while you have done NOTHING in your ChipMixer days except shitposting as much as you could.
You were openly spreading lies about me, when covering Unknown01, who tried to silence one of the German members by reporting him to theymos for simply saying his opinion. Who's silencing anyone?
The big problem is: some of our trolls aren't able to face any criticism. When they are being criticized, they are playing the victim card, that there would be "opression", that they are being "silenced".
They are not getting "silenced", they just can't handle criticism.  
And of course I will add rules that I'm not bothered that these abusers will fill their bags due to my generosity!

Still, you are shitting on all these achievements.

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It's not difficult at all to find negative things about you.
Normally, in a well and principled moderated forum, you would be banned long ago for your plagiarism.

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Thanks for showing who you are.
Let the hate flow through you.
Are you proud that you stepping up now to achieve your goal now of shitposting without consequences in the German section?
Well, we already know that this was possible to a certain degree right now, with mole0815 enabling you.  

This statement is very cheap coming from someone who wants to dictate me, how I have to use the DT system, how I have to compile my DT list and dictate everything related to that. You are not in any position to dictate how I use DT, you are not in any position to dictate how anyone uses DT!

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Nice to have you here, mole0815, I woudn't expect anything different from you after you already abused your forum moderator position for covering their abuses recently.
You have removed some of their plagiarism posts after I've reported them that these abusers don't get any punishment.
You are emboldening them by patting them on the back that their shitposts are fine and that's why the whole German section is going down.
As said before already:
You are a lazy prick who has lied all the way, also to discredit me with the final goal to turn the German section into a shitposting paradise.
You've shitposted massively yourself in your ChipMixer days and surprisingly, your post count is much lower now, which coincided exactly with when the campaign ended.  
You are a wasel enabler and this is known for a very long time to everyone who folowed your moderation practices.

You didn't act against simple rules abuses when your shitposter friends did clear rule violations, which I reported.
Back to back shitposts, and the moderator is sleeping, marking ma reports as "negative":



What a pathetic moderation practive.
Yes, I'm vocal about your abuses as a moderator and your abuses as a pathetic liar and shitposter enabler.

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Look at the rules, my competitions are quite clear.
Do you believe I want to give my valuable BTC to
Of course I will add certain rules to prevent these cheap ass trolls from getting some of my BTC for free and distribute it to deserving members instead.
Those, who are grateful to get some BTC, those who aren't abusing the forum for a few satoshit every week.
Why, WHY should I distribute any BTC to those, who are sprading hate and lies against me? WHY?
Tell me ONE reason!

The amount of BTC I've given to the community is unprecedented.

Your blind hate is truly disgusting, so thanks for showing everyone here what your moderation practices really are.
Instread of advocating for a good posting quality, you are enabling trolls, shitposters and other abusers because you are well part of their gang!

As said before:
I was doing tons of educational topics, providing tons of helpful advice, warning about tons of nasty mistakes we can do in Bitcoin, doing tons of giveaways to give out Bitcoin for those who don't have as much as we have and to attract new members to the forum. All this seems to be wasted effort, more and more and we have to stop this. Either we contribute or we shitpost. I'm in favor of contributing.

I'm completely fed up, how these shitposters are getting emboldened, how they are able to send the Merit to their shitposter friends for trash posts because they know they'll get away with it. This is a big issue in the German section and I'm ready address this.
I've invested too much time in the forum at this point and other nice members have invested much time as well.
Our lazy shitposters don't put any effort into it, they don't even try! They are ridiculing the seriousness of the issues if we address this because they know there will be someone who'll embolden them.
There are already very few new members, at least in the German section and shitposters is what we don't need at all.
Still, they are getting emboldened for their bullshit!

That's how the forum dies!!!

This is negative and deserved or are you saying the feedbacks on his account are trust abuse? I don't think so.  
It's deserved after making my due diligence.
Have you researched the user in question before making your judgement?

Everyone is responsible for the calls they are making on the forum and I'm allowed to point out anything as long as I'm not violating DT standards. If someone doesn't approve that, he can simply add me to their trust list but (no surprise) very few people did that.
Did you add me to your distrust list finally as you seem to disagree with me here? If yes, that would be totally ok for me because that's also a consequence of DT and if someone doesn't think that someone's feedbacks are apropriate.

The evidence of their abuse is well known after he had a big clash in this topic, where these abusers tried to silence a member by reporting them to theymos: User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion
In addition, they are the sort of guys who are responsible that the forum gets spammed every day that they can earn their weekly sig rewards.
Contributions to the forum? Nothing!
Instead, we even get plagiarism and when we call them out, they'll get aggressive because they know we have a point when we are pointing out how they are milking the forum with their shitposts.


Well, wonder why he doesn't do it? Because he would get quickly exposed, what he did over the years. Hiding is all they can do and hoping that the moderators don't enforce any of these rules, like plagiarism. The abusers know that they can get away with it, they know it, so they will continue. Step by step they are destroying the forum just to earn some sats every week.
I'm completely fed up when I see how the forum is going down, after putting a massive effort into my posts to provide some quality for the forum, that the forum stays relevant.
Doing tons of educational topics, providing tons of helpful advice, warning about tons of nasty mistakes we can do in Bitcoin, doing tons of giveaways to give out Bitcoin for those who don't have as much as we have and to attract new members to the forum. All this seems to be wasted effort, more and more and we have to stop this. Either we contribute or we shitpost. I'm in favor of contributing.

I'm completely fed up, how these shitposters are getting emboldened, how they are able to send the Merit to their shitposter friends for trash posts because they know they'll get away with it. This is a big issue in the German section and I'm ready address this.
I've invested too much time in the forum at this point and other nice members have invested much time as well.
Our lazy shitposters don't put any effort into it, they don't even try! They are ridiculing the seriousness of the issues if we address this because they know there will be someone who'll embolden them.
There are already very few new members, at least in the German section and shitposters is what we don't need at all.
Still, they are getting emboldened for their bullshit!

That's how the forum dies!!!

That's why I'm using neutral feedbacks instead of negative ones despite some members have received negative trusts for much less from other members. I'll always review my feedbacks and most feedbacks include a reference link, so people are able to read up on the issue, which is a very important part in my opinion. Feedback should just be like "hey, this topic is of interest when dealing with user xy, where it's worth to read up on".
Our troll KingScorpio got a negative trust for "I just don't trust him" and even that is a DT feedback.

That's an interesting suggestion and should be explored if that's possible to implement.
We also need a better approach to mitigate shitposting and trust farming as it's very easy currently to send some nice-guy feedbacks, especially Member or Full Member accounts, if they think to get that way into DT.