I'm sure this will be considered cheap in "the future." 

I won't comment on another company's contract as I'm not a contracts expert and it's not my place to discuss the pros/cons of someone else's contract. We're here simply to offer a Point Of Sales and an operating service for these Robocoin ATMs, for those without the resources or inclination to run a network of Bitcoin ATMs.

I'm not here to help you to make a decision as to whether to purchase one or not. That's your due diligence, and your job, as an investor.

This service was on pause while these new terms were worked out. I will say that I was taken by surprise by the new fee split like others. I, for one, would never have sought nor condoned such a massive change in terms over such a short period of time, even if it was possible.

However, it is what it is, and Jordan does have a point that this appears to be the first franchise opportunity with a projected ROI of less than a month and that this still appears to be the only KYC and AML compliant Bitcoin ATM able to do both purchases and sales. I'm told that the sales were a significant portion of the gross revenue.

Being KYC/AML compliant is no small thing. The Traveler's Box deployed in Turkey was put on hiatus recently while legal issues are worked out.

Also: there's some other news coming out of Robocoin shortly regarding marketing that we should be expecting shortly.

==

If someone does choose to make an investment in Robocoin ATMs through us and have us service their ATMs, we will fly our company employees to the intended market to do market research and to seek local legal partners. We will also be on hand for market launch to help smooth the way for any potential issues that may crop up.

By the way, for what it's worth, as someone that is hardware neutral, I would have no problem offering a POS and our operating services for other KYC/AML compliant Crypto ATMs.

I do. Bicknellski and the Wasp Team are "good people" IMHO. We've talked over Skype about various projects and about potential future collaborations.

==

Also, OT, but just to clarify: I had absolutely no hand in our co-op having exclusivity to BA Group Buys. I was notified of this myself and neither sought nor asked for this exclusivity.

I pride myself on my hardware neutrality, having doing arbitrage on electronics since the days of pre-order Nintendo Wiis and when people used to actually pay to ship giant CRTs weighing 50+ lbs. We've sold GB shares from 4 different manufacturers so far, and look forward to working with other manufacturers in the future.

One more thing to keep in mind: Bitcoin miners themselves are a result of the combination of East and West. The people who make our miners come from an entirely different culture from ours, and social mores are different then they are in the West.

I think that no insult was intended to anyone, simply cold hard business sense such as: based on past experience from bad GBCs that ran away w/ funds, we may save x percentage of operating expenses and reduce our risk if we don't have to deal with GBs ourselves.

I don't know if this is the case but I'm just trying to give you the background conditions of the massive societal and cultural differences between egalitarian and non-egalitarian cultures.

We try to run our co-op in as open and transparent a manner as possible. I instituted a direct representative democracy in our miner's co-op as soon as I started it. I believe it's made all the difference in the world and our co-op members can look at it proudly knowing that their input is taken seriously and real changes are made based upon their input and passion. My opinion from this democratic experiment is to heed the feedback you get from your customers and be willing to be adaptive and even keeled.

Encouraging new GBCs is something I've done since I've been here. I also wanted offload some work from John K., hence my GBC and/or miner host specific vetting which I offer for free, in the hope of doing future business with these people in the future.

==

Also: I've offered James my editing skills if he so chooses to utilize them for a GB re-launch. I apologize that we're too busy right now to juggle a 3rd GB with the free tools we have available at the moment. I've given him a number of suggestions which I hope are worthwhile

Forgot to add: here's video of the Coincraft Desk that was released yesterday:

https://bitmine.ch/?p=2961

For R18B: We should be able to double the number of modules from R18A to max out the modules in the R18 rig.

There's an inconsistency on Bitmine's site where the older Rig description mentioned 17 modules being the max, while the January description lists 8 modules being the max for a Bitmine Rig. I'm asking for a clarification but their site says the January rigs max out at 2.5 TH/s.

Welcome aboard to new co-op members, and welcome back to our co-op vets!

==

Update: New pics from Black Arrow!

These are *not* Prosperos with Minion chips and these are *not* the co-op's rigs being tested. I'm just sharing with you pictures of their testing facility, as these same facilities will be used for the Prospero x-3 launch:

http://ecointalk.net/gallery/image/71-20131123-215037/

Thanks for the compliments, Tiennou74. How is the weather in your part of the EU this year? I've always wanted to visit Hossegor and would love to visit when it's "going off", as us waveriders say. There's also a lovely artificial wave in Spain next door I'd love to visit called the Wave Garden.

As for the lack of communication: if I don't post to a thread for a few days, please keep in mind that I only post if I have something new to add. If one of the other co-op leaders have covered it, I'm not going to stop by to say: "ditto."

Another important note: this order was paid for by CC by bobsag3. Technically: there is no BTC to refund because it was converted to fiat and sent to the mfg. We also usually don't have a giant pile of BTC sitting around just for refunds once orders are paid. This is a lean co-op that lets us offer rock bottom pricing.

Believe me: Thomas and I haven't exactly gotten rich off of offering these lowest cost GB shares on the forum. Just between the two of us, let alone other co-op leaders and contributors, we've likely poured 6 figures worth of labor into this co-op so far, using our usual hourly rates.

I will add that we're actively trying to improve the liquidity of future DZ MC ASIC miner rig purchases with our new site, but again: Rome wasn't built in a day.

One more note about these types of investments/purchases: a person *really* shouldn't be investing in ASIC miners and Bitcoin in general if they can't handle volatility and occasional bad news. I'm not your lawyer or investment adviser, but please don't invest any money in GBs or BTC that you cannot afford to lose.

This is standard in the world of high risk/high reward investments such as these.

If you absolutely must seek a refund (esp. if you're a big purchase) we'd really prefer that you work w/ us on a refund or share transfer to someone else, as we meant what we said about the chaos that can be caused by refunds on already paid hardware where we don't have the orig. funds.

If it becomes too much of a PITA to offer DZ MC GBs because people want to use us as a short term "bank" to hold their BTC, I will absolutely shut down ALL future DZ MC GBs. I absolutely don't need the tiny bit of BTC and massive amount of stress that these GBs can cause, and GBs def. don't pay my bills.

I will add that, with our new site, we're working hard to improve the liquidity of future DZ MC ASIC related purchases or contracts, but that: Rome wasn't built in a day.

==

We're trying to keep up with demand, we have a lot of Rounds sold and try to give people a couple of GB options that are world class values. I've been dealing with an influx of new interest, new investors, and new miners, all with many questions about this brave new world. Heck, I even talked a local brewery owner into accepting BTC since CoinBase transactions are free for your first $1M in sales (vs. 3.7% for Square).

Since we posted about redesigning the site which is nearly done we've also:

- Met with the site designer for final payment and site improvements on the back end to automate some processes
- Finalized business structure among founders in 3 time zones (which complicates communication/coordination)
- Had our CFO meet with a number of law firms who handle International Business and decided on a firm
- Secured legal counsel
- Secured paperwork and sites for an umbrella corp. and a couple sub-companies
- Graphic Designer searches complete
- Ongoing refunds and share transfers from late R13x
- Negotiations with SolarWindMiningCompany leading to my suggestion that he simply relaunch as a stripped down GB instead of a facility/re-investment project
- Additional startup biz planning w/ company founders
- Numerous investor meetings

For weeks now, I've been working on the co-op and this biz more hours than my job at the Research Lab.

These GBs don't just sprout out of thin air. There's a lot of discussion and planning that goes on behind the scenes. A lot of my time is now spent behind the scenes, researching candidates for future GBs (you may see me on the CH forum here and there, vetting new companies), and meeting with potential partners, manufacturers, resellers, and investors.

Among the 5 co-op leaders, we divide the work here to hopefully keep a modicum of sanity. We've succeeded in building the biggest and most diverse Miners Co-op on the forum in this manner, so I think we're doing something right.

It's been a busy, stressful time and I apologize immensely if I missed your PM. Please shoot me a 2nd PM or a copy if it was really important and couldn't be answered by another co-op leader or member. I'm trying my best, but I'm only human and I only have so many hours in a day (and children to help raise too).

I won't go through everything we have planned but are new pro arm includes new offerings that benefit the Group Buyers and other investors in this new cryptoeconomy. I have talked a little bit about them in 1 or 2 GB threads previously.

I'm excited to be here in this moment in history, where BTC hasn't even reached 1% market potential, and there's a whole new world out there for us to explore together, for those willing to take the risks.

Hey tripppn,

Yes, as soon as they're available, which won't be until the boards come in next week.

Sorry, I was way off on the numbers. I don't do order tracking for the most part nowadays.

There were a ton of phantom orders, which will go away when our new site is on-line.

Updated numbers: 95 shares sold.

Essentially: R18A is sold out.

R18B is open, which are upgrade modules sold at the same GB share price, to be housed in the same R18 rig.

We have access to a lot of BA miners thanks to bobsag3 and the success of R9-12. If someone wanted to buy several x-3's we can accommodate them for this round.

Thanks to co-op feedback (yes, we listen, may take a bit because setting up a new biz takes time): In most DZ MCs we now limit - by gentleman's agreement - any one miner rig owner from owning more than 25% of an ASIC miner rigs ownership.

Welcome Aboard!

I believe that many of you are new to the co-op. Please don't forget to vote near the 5 month mark as to whether to sell this equipment or not.

As a co-op, it's our acknowledgment that most mining calculators show 90%+ of mining returns being met within the first 5 months, and that we can arbitrage used equipment while they hopefully still have value.

Cheers!

Hey Miramyn,

Our last update was that the repairs were taking longer than expected. Also, getting one's hands on new or even slightly used hashrate is proving to be pretty difficult at the moment.

Refunds are available or you could contact Thomas to move funds to the R17x Black Arrow x-3 or R18x Bitmine Rig GBs.

Hi Gator-hex,

I assisted in the launch of the BA Bullet Run and our co-op holds the rights to the exclusive Group Buy for x-3 Prospero GBs in February. They're not 3rd party boards - its a nearly complete test of the new BA Prospero design being launched in late February.

This allowed them to do a limited size test of their entire design and assembly process sans the Minion chip, while working with bobsag3 to troubleshoot problems and iron out issues (it also allowed our co-op members access to Bullet Run Prosperos 3-4 months ahead of the full launch).

The main difference is that this Bullet Run that's currently hashing uses 55nm Bitfury chips, while the February Prosperos will be using their own 28nm Minion ASIC. Everything I've seen/heard so far is that they still appear to be on track for a late February launch of their Minion Prosperos (in fact, absolutely no promises and don't hold this as holy gospel, but I understand that this is a conservative target date; as there's been too much over promising and underdelivery in this industry, as a whole).

Yes, it's the risk we take. If BTC price takes a dive, we intend to hold the funds for refunds or until the price recovers so that we don't lose buying power (which is the goal) when we complete a purchase.

We win some, we lose some. 

Would sure be nice to have our BTC back, since we all have nothing to show for it so far.

If we don't get a refund because they make the Dec. 31 deadline: Hopefully, MPP will help make up for some of the lost time [my opinion is they're so late,that when they do ship, they might as well just stuff their rigs with whatever GN chips will fit].

For our GBs, we immediately send funds to the vendor or partner, such as bobsag3, once all funds are collected. Payments are made in BTC.

Another important fact: if the value of BTC rises while we're holding the funds and we can buy more hashrate (such as extra modules) with the collected BTC, we automatically credit that extra hashrate to that Round, like we did for R8B.


==

BTW, bcabes, OT: we're looking at alternate BTC ATMs, esp. the new one that launched in Turkey that only takes deposits and is supposed to have much less legal paperwork involved: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qw530/worlds_second_bitcoin_atm_opens_in_istanbul/cdi8y7l

At this time, unfortunately, however: we can only offer our BTC ATM services to qualified investors or groups buying an entire BTC ATM or more.

Hmm,

Please contact bobsag3 or -Redacted- if you'd like to join the DZ mining pool.

We're still also seriously considering spearheading a GB Forum specific mining pool.

Hey Hili,

Welcome Back! Due to Bitcoin upward price mobility: If we raise enough funds for 2 or even 2.5 TH/s (yet we don't sell all 250 shares) we simply give everyone the extra hashrate that we end up with.

We did this for R8B, where we had raised enough funds for 600GH/s with only about 47 shares bought. Those lucky buyers actually have a higher GH/s rating per R8B share over R8 buyers, but that was the happy luck of the draw.

If the reverse happens where BTC drops tremendously in value: we'd likely hold the BTC until the USD price recovered before we commit to buying something for less USD value than the BTC we originally raised.

==

FWIW: At the moment, I'm showing only *15* GB shares available for R18.  

Without a confirmation from Thomas, I cannot say if there are phantom or unpaid orders which would account for more than 15 shares at this time.

...if those sales come through...looks like we're buying a maxed out 2.5 TH/s+ Bitmine Rig.  



Also: if there's enough demand for a 2nd Bitmine Rig: sure, why not! If people want to get access to the world's best values, we're more than happy to oblige and we could run a R18B round, for those that are interested. I just activated backorders so that if we sell more than 250 GB shares, we'll automatically roll over those oversales to R18B.

Just an update, for those wondering, our only two open Group Buys at the moment are:

- This R17x Black Arrow Prospero launch in late February
- The R18x Bitmine Rig GB for mid January

Thanks!

Last I checked a few days ago on the HF thread: they were denying refunds per their ToS.

If there is a refund, their ToS states that refunds will *not* be until after Dec. 31.

The sentiment seems to be almost universal in R1-4 to seek a refund if it is available.