Banned for having hairy knuckles!
Banned for because living without girl friend  Banned because my wife would kill me if she found out you are my girlfriend  |
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I am curious if that law was lobbied for by healthcare providers to protect their own profits. I also take issue with the government pandering to such special interests, however, that is a whole separate debate
AARP lobbied for the ACA (supposedly on behalf of seniors) to the tune of $41.6 million dollars AARP sells secondary insurance that amends Medicare coverage. AARP sells their coverage through United Health - one of the biggest insurers in the US. Obama and his cabinet met with AARP on 24 occasions while the ACA was being debated. He never met with 1 single non-lobbyist employed physician. ACA passes and AARP is not rolling in kickbacks from selling UH policies as AARP policies - but it's all legitimate  |
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Whatever. I've been drinking this stuff for years and I'm only 1/2 the retard I could have been.
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Banned for having hairy knuckles!
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Green Wizard is about to die. Yellow Wizard needs food badly.
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Well at some point the margins for profit for the smaller miners become so small it's not worth selling. If it costs Bitmain $25 to ship, $10 for packaging, and $25 for support and warranty work then they're losing $60 to overhead. It may be cheaper for them to just sell it to themselves or to other companies in bulk.
Some are guessing they're going to stop end user sales shortly to keep difficulty from going up.
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Some of the cloud mining companies let you buy your equipment and they host if for you (colocation).
Because of the current state of flux with the network growth no company is able to offer leases at a stable price since the bitcoins mined will keep decreasing each difficulty as long as there is network growth.
Hence they have decided to make contracts for longer periods of time - a contract is the same as a 3 month or 6 month lease is it not?
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You would need to send each PCIe plug to a miner board. So only 2 PCIe plugs per Antminer. Then you should buy some molex to PCIe connectors and use them to provide a supplemental path to the board. It's not necessary but if you're overclocking it would help lend to stability (not sure how clean the power is on that model PSU).
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I guess people won't rent their miners unless they get a little higher rate than what they would get mining themselves.But if the price of coin goes up then for sure cloud mining is profitable
Not really. Well it is profitable in fiat return potentially but not the way most miners think of profit. If you spend 1BTC to buy hashing power but only get back 0.8BTC it doesn't matter if the BTC is worth $5 or $5000 - you still lost 0.2BTC. If all you want to do is make fiat - buy the BTC on an exchange and hope it goes up - no contract to deal with whatsoever. Just make sure to move the coins off an exchange if you're not actively trading. |
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A wooden dining room table would hash better than a Monarch. Seriously the account had to have been bought unless this is the first visit to the mining section  |
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Well it's a relatively free world and they're allowed to do what they will. Unless they are lying and using the word PROFIT anywhere on their page they're allowed to sell their stuff. The more experienced miners can simply call out BS on their prices and offer alternatives.
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Thank you very much for this awesome guide to cloud mining for beginners.Have just bookmarked this to read through in free time.
It's not really a guide but more of a warning for new members since many are not used to a world where an entity can call themselves a company and then disappear into thin air the very next day. I think the dangers of buying physical hardware have been well documented over the last year and I have posted numerous times about the problems I had wit BFL and Avalon that I think making a thread on hardware vendors would be beating a dead horse. Dogie's thread is probably the best reference for any vendor you would consider buying hardware from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.0 |
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Cloud mining is either scam or unprofitable, either way its not worth it..
We cannot agree with this. Mining can indeed be possible, otherwise people would not mine anymore. I think the question you are referring to is: "Why would a company sell mining services if they would make profit by running their machines on their own?" The answer to this question is simply, that we do it to decrease the risks of the our big farms by selling fractions of our farm. This way if we are profitable, also our users are! That's a clever answer, but the truth is that you are competing against your customers. You only make money if they lose money, and vice versa. You are in it to make money, right? Actually it is possible for both to make profit. If the cloud mining company buy 10BTC worth of equipment, and spend 5 in overhead they have an outlay of 15BTC. If they sell that hash for 20 BTC but they make a 5BTC profit, but if that hash mines 25BTC then the buyer makes 5BTC also. Unfortunately I don't see any deals where the prices are low enough for the end user to make a profit like that. Come on guys, let's see some price drops  |
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The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.
There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.
There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.
As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.
Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!
Just my 5 cents!
These kind of people should not be involved with mining. If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it. If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io. That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line. There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money. Mining is but one aspect. People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back. I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation. Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose. Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it. Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds. I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome. I'm not saying only experts should mine. if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started. I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician. What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining. Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise. You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools? Mining is just one aspect of BTC. There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system. The due diligence remains on the community. If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed. If you're mining you have internet access. Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free. All it costs is people's time. People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO. Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever! But why mine!?! Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies. In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block. How many people know about credit card PCI compliance? Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card. Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for. For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization. For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up. My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year. It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved. Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization. As I have already mentioned earlier mining is also fun. And import taxes and high electricity prices make physical mining difficult if some cases (my case too). So unless you live in a country with low electricity price and low import taxes cloud mining is a really convenient solution! Having built my own farm I know mining can be fun. But for the very noobie people you were talking about mining would not be fun. Those kind of people can barely operate a PC - why would they want to stare at graphs all day long. They would want to go to Bloomindales and spend their BTC. For those where it makes no sense to own the miner in their house there's always colocation centers. These would allow the miner to chose his pool or p2pool and help decentralize rather than have all the power herded into one place. Colocating miners is cheaper than cloud hashing and you get the pride of owning your own hardware. |
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The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.
There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.
There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.
As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.
Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!
Just my 5 cents!
These kind of people should not be involved with mining. If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it. If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io. That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line. There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money. Mining is but one aspect. People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back. I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation. Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose. Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it. Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds. I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome. I'm not saying only experts should mine. if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started. I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician. What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining. Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise. You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools? Mining is just one aspect of BTC. There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system. The due diligence remains on the community. If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed. If you're mining you have internet access. Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free. All it costs is people's time. People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO. Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever! But why mine!?! Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies. In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block. How many people know about credit card PCI compliance? Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card. Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for. For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization. For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up. My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year. It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved. Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization. |
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It's nice we have the crap posted in the last 4 pages - now I have a direct link when somebody asks what FUD is. Seriously people... let the devs from all the CN work on it, then play armchair quarterback.
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The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.
There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.
There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.
As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.
Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!
Just my 5 cents!
These kind of people should not be involved with mining. If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it. If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io. That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line. There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money. Mining is but one aspect. People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back. I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation. Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose. Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it. Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds. I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome. I'm not saying only experts should mine. if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started. I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician. What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining. Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise. You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools? Mining is just one aspect of BTC. There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system. The due diligence remains on the community. If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed. If you're mining you have internet access. Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free. All it costs is people's time. People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO. |
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OP do you go on other forums and ask how do I get free dollars? Are Mexicans posting asking for free pesos? Are Indians asking for free Rupees? You gotta work for it.
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