Bick I honestly think it's time for you to admit that estimated specs are bullshit.
The only thing they are good for is giving investors hope and intimidating the competition.
That's our roadmap. It based on tech we're developing. Are you guys already working on the ASIC design that you estimate will achieve 0.05 j/gh at $0.03/gh or is it just an extrapolation/hope? Also is it still the plan to have $0.2/gh at 0.1 j/gh hardware by the end of the year? |
|
|
|
|
Bick I honestly think it's time for you to admit that estimated specs are bullshit.
The only thing they are good for is giving investors hope and intimidating the competition.
|
|
|
|
You know the funniest thing I see about this thread is a bunch of BTC supporters using things that the real world says about BTC against GAW. This may be a complete fail but seeing so many comments revolve around how it is fake internet money and the price is just too crazy there is no way someone would pay that much or it cant have that market cap is pretty funny. Most people know nothing about BTC and if you talk to them they would say you are full of it if you told them the market cap.
It's really not the same at all. The only reason bitcoin has value is because it's completely decentralized and secured by cryptography. There are practically an infinite amount of uses for a decentralized ledger, e.g. blockstream, colored coins, provably fair gambling, and so on. Hashcoin has a market cap of ~$2 billion only because the coin inventor says it's worth $2 billion. |
|
|
|
....
Rockxie/rockminer is partnering with AM to handle the PR side of things.
....
I think it's more than that. There's no reason to partner with other company just to aquire some PR. And AM wouldn't seek PR person just to double jobs positions... I wrote this earlier: How much does AM profit from this deal anyway? For every GH sold on havelock, how much does AM get ?
I'm understandig this AMHash thing that way: AM is selling tubes/prismas in bulk with a little lower price than 1.0BTC/TH to RM. With delayed payment agreement. RM is building a farm (adding PSU, infrastructure etc.) and selling shares of that farm (1.25BTC/TH). When IPO will close RM will pay for hardware to AM. If not all shares will be sold RM will mine for AM, taking maintenance fee (or AM will be the owner of shares). Deducted from previous answers of rockxie. How did you come to that conclusion? The second sentence in the AMhash thread makes it pretty clear: In this contract, the hashrate is provided by ASICMiner, the management is provided by
RockMiner, and the platform is provided by HavelockInvestments.
this means nothing, if not just supporting at the very best Dexter's point. It says AM is providing the hashrate.. That means it's AM's farm and RM is just managing the cloudmining. Hopefully these posts make it more clear: RM now are going to cooperate with AM in many parts,such as marketing,sales,R&D...etc.
In fact, AM is trying to change, and some changes have been made, AMHash is a clear signal.
The reason why we started AMHhash project is based on factors below:
1 Most of customers's electricity is not cheap enough for mining right now and AM find the right place to deploy.
1. Before IPO closes, ASICMiner has the right to buy back at the price of IPO price * 100.5%.
|
|
|
|
....
Rockxie/rockminer is partnering with AM to handle the PR side of things.
....
I think it's more than that. There's no reason to partner with other company just to aquire some PR. And AM wouldn't seek PR person just to double jobs positions... I wrote this earlier: How much does AM profit from this deal anyway? For every GH sold on havelock, how much does AM get ?
I'm understandig this AMHash thing that way: AM is selling tubes/prismas in bulk with a little lower price than 1.0BTC/TH to RM. With delayed payment agreement. RM is building a farm (adding PSU, infrastructure etc.) and selling shares of that farm (1.25BTC/TH). When IPO will close RM will pay for hardware to AM. If not all shares will be sold RM will mine for AM, taking maintenance fee (or AM will be the owner of shares). Deducted from previous answers of rockxie. How did you come to that conclusion? The second sentence in the AMhash thread makes it pretty clear: In this contract, the hashrate is provided by ASICMiner, the management is provided by
RockMiner, and the platform is provided by HavelockInvestments.
|
|
|
|
....
I was under the assumption that AMHash was a Rockminer franchise entity.
So far no one knows what is bussiness connections between those two. If it's franchise AM recives BTC from them either way... No they have made it pretty clear. AMhash is owned by AM. Rockxie/rockminer is partnering with AM to handle the PR side of things. Amhash is just a way for AM to sell their hardware to people who would otherwise have no chance of mining due to electricity costs/setup costs/etc. The profits will go in to building more hardware out of the stockpile of chips. |
|
|
|
Its a scam. They took preorders for sha-256 ASICs which they claimed to have designed/built but it later turned out they just bought the hardware from another company and claimed it was their design. Then they claimed to be designing a scrypt ASIC. Many preorders and delays later it turns out that yet again they just bought the machine from another company. Alcheminer is the company making their scrypt hardware. I tried to get them to clarify the relationship between themselves and MAT and was pretty much ignored. For that reason I don't really trust Alcheminer but they are definitely much less shady than MAT. Anyways, I'd personally just wait for Bitmains new scrypt ASIC to make a decision. |
|
|
|
Maybe the friend he is referring to is actually himself and the bank is hashcoin. After all, with an expected IPO market cap of $2 billion they would be the 14th largest bank in the world in terms of assets. And according to their expert analysists, within 12 months the price per coin will rise to $75 ($7.2 billion USD premined) so GAW will have 2.5 times the total assets of the largest bank in the world! Quite impressive for doing practically nothing. You might have those asset numbers off by about 3 orders of magnitude. The valuation is ridiculous but not yet on that scale. You're right I misread the banks assetts. |
|
|
|
Maybe the friend he is referring to is actually himself and the bank is hashcoin. After all, with an expected IPO market cap of $2 billion they would be the 14th largest bank in the world in terms of assets. And according to their expert analysists, within 12 months the price per coin will rise to $75 ($7.2 billion USD premined) so GAW will have 2.5 times the total assets of the largest bank in the world! Quite impressive for doing practically nothing. |
|
|
|
1. If you think it's not true, then you haven't seen any ROI tracking threads.
I'm not denying the fact that many have seen ROI. I don't know how you couldn't ROI if you bought a prime hashlet at $15. However you are going to need to provide evidence to support your statement that more 50% of people have turned a profit. 2. People can promote whatever they like and have as many accounts as they want. It's funny that you point this out but ignore the fact that there are sockpuppet accounts in every bigger thread on this forum. Some are also used to attack GAW, but are very rarely banned, simply because this is not against the rules. One guy with 4 aliases was recvently banned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=845185.msg9426078#msg9426078That's true but when you get caught shilling you are only damaging your point/credibility. Legit services don't need shills because their service/customers will speak for them. GAW has plenty of actual supporters and doesn't need shills IMO. I just thought you would be interested to know that someone is taking advantage of your sig campaign. 3. "Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy". Not true. There are many people on this forum, me included with positive experiences.
I didn't mean 100% of the people will tell you that they are untrustworthy. I mean that the majority feel that way, which is true. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=839849.0That poll shows that 2/3rd of miners think that a cloudmining company hiding their mining address is a sign of a ponzi, and that's only a single red flag. You're still ignoring the uncomfortable fact, that GAW is not a small club with 50 customers, but one of the biggest mining companies in the crypto world. Since the beginning of the year when they started to sell miners they offered their services to numerous clients and how many of them reported scams? If you want to play detective do your job right: get a list of people who were scammed by GAW, let's count together how much money they invested and lost. I may even apologize to you and say that I was wrong about them. Otherwise we can bounce this ball back and forth for another month. I'm not ignoring anything. The size of the company says nothing about it's legitimacy. Lunamine had hundreds of naive/gullible customers before collapsing, would you say they are trustworthy? What about bitcoin-trader.biz? Or cryptcominer? You can't blame me for thinking GAW is a ponzi when they've taken every precaution to dress themselves up as one. There is absolutely no reason they need to have 500 red flags when other cloudmining companies can operate with transparency/integrity. |
|
|
|
GAW is not a ponzy. They are one of the most reputable altcoin guys around. Now whether investing in hashlets now will give an ROI is a different story. I actually was an early investor and sold all hashlets a week ago. I made ROI because I got primes for 16 each. However GAW may be overreaching themselves with their plans now and you can bet they will have their share of problems. Whether you want to join them for that ride is up to you but they wont scam you.
No that's, that's absolutely not true. Go to anywhere on this forum/reddit/investment advisors and they will all tell you the same thing, GAW is untrustworthy. Some noobs here have yet to get scammed in the bitcoin world so it's understandable they can miss/ignore the mountain of red flags, but please for the sake of the community, don't drag other naive/gullible noobs into the scam. Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/GAWMiners/ if you want a better understanding of the situation. That place used to be a haven for GAW zealots to unite and share praise for the company but they could only ignore the waves of red flags hitting them in the face for so long before coming back to their senses. |
|
|
|
With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.
What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here. I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit... Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates. There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it. In GAW's case over 50% of investors got their money back and then some. In a pyramid scheme those early birds are financed by the crowd that comes after them, so it's impossible for even 50 % of them to get out with profit, and in this case they did. On the other hand if the payouts and fees stay the way there are there won't be any new customers. So what you're telling me is that you have access to GAW's real financials? I'm 99.0% sure you just pulled that number out of your ass to make a point. Sidenote: did you catch the person using 4 shill acounts to promote GAW yet? In case you missed it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9464539#msg9464539 |
|
|
|
There is so many running around here crying about anything they can try to make look bad about GAW. It is amazing.  What's really sad is that some people feel the need to make 4 accounts to create the illusion that many people support GAW's shady/scammy business practices. The only people making GAW look bad is themselves. They could easily remove some of the dozens of redflags but instead they raise new red flags almost daily. But then again, why remove the red flags when you could just continue marketing to the naive/gullible? While I never trusted GAW/Zen 100%, I was able to invest a dozen bitcoins and get the full amount back in less than three months. I also have a pretty good amount of Primes and Zens left. (>100 of each) Succeeding required me to change my plans multiple times and I did get hit with some bad events. However the environment there isn't anything like the people here make it out to be. Yes there are problems, but there are also opportunities. I don't know how this coin they are working on is going to pan out, but that is the game now. Since I'm unsure, I'm not going to invest anymore there. If things change, then I might. One thing is for sure though, I'm not going to take investment advice from this thread.  Congrats on your gamble. It's nice to see that even some of the most hardcore fanatics are having a hard time buying into this new scheme. Investment advice on this forum may be bad, but anything is better than an astroturfed forum by a company whose only goal is to take your money via every get rich quick scheme known to man. |
|
|
|
I have no doubt that quite a few of these are ponzis. Once these blows up it will be a good exercise to see what percentage was legitimate.
I am not sure about "quite a few" (this implies it is man/most of them) but I would say that a non-zero number of them are ponzis. I would especially consider LTCgear to most likely be a ponzi. The lead bitcoin developer seems to think many are ponzis. https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/Coud mining ponzis are actually a smart move. Direct ponzis which claims some 'investment' and high returns don't last for even a month. With cloud mining they don't have to give big returns, and slowly accumulate over a period of a few months. I agree, it really is the perfect market for a ponzi. I think it might be the only market where a well set up ponzi can last indefinitely. Not only are the returns piss poor for the risk you take (just talking about mining here, not being a ponzi), but a massive portion of the bitcoin/crypto community are completely uneducated/misinformed when it comes to bitcoin/bitcoin mining and no matter how many eye opening scams make the headlines, plenty more naive/gullible noobs will fill their place. The bitcoin difficulty derivative on havelock makes it clear how profitable a cloudmining ponzi can be. It operates similar to a ponzi but instead of pretending to mine, they make it very clear that it's all an equation and as soon as the reserve fund runs dry, the game is over. Because you know exactly how much btc is left in the reserve, you can price the shares accordingly and nobody gets ripped off. But the important thing to take from it is how long the derivative has lasted. With no mining and payouts only from the original payments, it's been 7 months already and there's still ~200 days worth of mining payments before the reserve fund runs dry(at the current difficulty). That doesn't even consider the fact that B.sell has had ~0.028 btc/gh in dividends. (B.sell would basically be the ponzi operators cut if they want to keep the reserve at 200 days.) 0.028 btc/gh leftover after paying out mining earnings for 9 months means that if they don't spend any money on advertising/drugs/cars then the ponzi could easily last 6+ more years if difficulty remained at the current level. (which we all know won't happen) |
|
|
|
Do you have a source on the chips being in hand but defective?
As known by OEM producers, several large batches of BE200 had problems with
popping chips affecting whole boards due to the misoperation from the packaging
company. It hindered afterwards chip sales and delayed the starting time of
Tube/Prisma sales. Later supply of BE200 has no such problem and filtering process
on old BE200 is also underway.
Sounds like this happened a while ago. |
|
|
|
I may be am biased, as a buyer of a batch of Prismas who has yet to receive them, but ASICMiner has also failed to reply to -any- emails since the original purchase (either friedcat or phasebird), so although I know some have shipped I have seen no communication since the 25th from them. I'd recommend lowering their communication score again: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=791827.msg9425492#msg9425492Also, the Prisma may not have been a pre-order because the hardware was already designed, but the BE200s were not in-hand, and when the first batch came back flawed they were unable to react (let alone communicate) fast enough, so I'd ding them again for handling a hardware launch extremely poorly. I agree communication has been absolutely terrible. TBH I think it is significantly impacting the company's sales. The BE200's were in hand, just many of the chips were defective. |
|
|
|
With hashlets, the risk/reward is basically like flipping a coin, heads you win $5, tails you lose $50.
What would you say to all these people who invested and got 120% or more out of it? We're talking about hundreds of people here. I thought that ponzis are being financed with their money so it's impossible for the majority of investors to profit... Because no ponzi in the history of ponzis has given great returns to the few early birds right? Compare the current returns to the past where people where able to ROI. Early birds were able to turn a profit in ~1 month, new customers are looking at ~1-2 years until they break even at current rates. There is of course a chance that GAW decides to lower the fees/increase payouts but it's equally likely that they decide to make fees 99% of what you earn and/or are a ponzi and run with the money. GAW CEO is the puppet master of your ROI and there's nothing you can do about it. |
|
|
|
Yea, what threw me off was that AM's evap coolers are indoors, never seen that before. $0.06-0.07/kwh makes it a plausible location for a mine but it's still far from optimal (although much better than the ~$0.11/kwh several sites led me to believe). I don't think there's any conspiracy. It really is quite sad to see so much hardware go to waste. I hope they can get back on their feet eventually. |
|
|
|
I have no doubt that quite a few of these are ponzis. Once these blows up it will be a good exercise to see what percentage was legitimate.
I am not sure about "quite a few" (this implies it is man/most of them) but I would say that a non-zero number of them are ponzis. I would especially consider LTCgear to most likely be a ponzi. The lead bitcoin developer seems to think many are ponzis. https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/I think that once the first cloud mining site proves to be a ponzi, it will be much more difficult for other sites to continue to sell their mining capacity (and it may be a good time to invest in cloud mining if you are certain the company you are buying from is not a ponzi)
You must be new here. There have already been many cloudmining ponzis that have collapsed. Lunamine was a pretty successful/recent one I can think of. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
