In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down. In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.
What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.
If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.
Not when it comes to sales, my stepdad builds fences, I got him looking into accepting bitcoin. He sells a fence for $3000 worth of bitcoin, he goes out, buys all the material, starts work, comes home, they dropped $15 by the time he goes to sell. He already lost $400, but he cant hold because he has bills.. Huge dips are bad. Huh? He did well, he sold the bitcoins for real goods to build a fence, so wasn't holding them when they went down. When he goes to sell the fence for presumably more than $3000 he gets more bitcoins for that than he started with. Or, he built the fence for $3000 worth of bitcoins which would have been much less worth, not enough maybe to build the fence, had he waited longer before buying the materials. You seem to have it backward. -MarkM- If he sells the fence for 300 bitcoin valued at $100 each $3000 By the time he gets home they're $85 Loss of $450 |
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In the long term, it doesn't matter if Bitcoin goes down. In the long term, it doesn't matter if the market settles at a price of $200, $100, $50, $1000, or $1000000 per BTC.
What matters, long term, is providing people a way to successfully escape government fiat, the business cycle, and the violence that is destroying them and everything they try to do in life, one piece at a time.
If everybody uses cryptocurrencies and fiat currencies die and Bitcoin is worth $25/BTC, that will be victory.
Not when it comes to sales, my stepdad builds fences, I got him looking into accepting bitcoin. He sells a fence for $3000 worth of bitcoin, he goes out, buys all the material, starts work, comes home, they dropped $15 by the time he goes to sell. He already lost $400, but he cant hold because he has bills.. Huge dips are bad. |
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I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.
That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low. I'm implying that non miners are taking profit. The miners want high dollar value for their ROI. ASICS give a profit except their initial cost, and that's what I was saying miners want high value, they wont dump for a low price. ASICS are cheap to run so if they only dumped to pay their power bill, it would not be much. |
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Its the part about dumping a windfall 4500 BTC on Gox while Gox rate is less than $266 that seems crazy. If you have bills/rigs to pay that need that 500 to be dumped, then fine, after using it to pick up 4500 free you go ahead and dump the 500 as originally planned/required. But throwing away your free extra 4500 at firesale prices? What are you, some kind of nutbar?  -MarkM- If you spend $5000 worth of coin for an alt coin, 2 weeks later its worth $50,000, I don't think you're a nutbar for cashing, more like intelligent. You don't know if the USA government bans bitcoin tomorrow, at least you have a new house, that essentially only cost you $5000. The only thing you will be doing is kicking yourself for not holding. You cant complain about $45,000 profit in 2 weeks. |
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I believe the recent drop in BTC is due to BFL finally delivering.
That would mean miners have to dump as soon as they get coin. I don't think many miners are dumb enough after spending the money they did to dump so low. |
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Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases! -MarkM- i was just about to post something like this but i deleted it .... you summed it up quicker then my rant. Ah so you don't agree, if I buy 500 btc worth of an alt coin, 2 weeks later its worth 5000 btc, I take that to gox, and dump it wont drop the price? ok, I agree it wont drop it much, its about 25 minutes worth of trade volume, but do that many many many times a day on a smaller scale. |
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Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases! -MarkM- Right because most of the people you see here are buying these alt coins with btc they just bought  No they're using spare funds they have to try to double their money, getting altcoin from some dude has been mining making $300 a day, and cashing out his btc asap because their value is crashing, making it go down more. Now you have more being sold than being bought.. |
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Congrats you're the next in line to figure out all you have to do is design a coin to make 100k within a week!
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You buy a bitcoin (I am guessing you implied "with fiat") and use it to buy my altcoin? Ahhh, there is your problem! Try you sell your altcoin for bitcoins, and use those bitcoins either to buy more of your altcoin cheaper or to buy some of my altcoin, which you then sell for more than you bought it for, and so on. Gosh no wonder you have a dim view of the markets! -MarkM_ Most people I see in the btc-e chat are buying off bitinstant: You get your bitcoin in your btc-e wallet, you dump it for the alt coin. mtgox is always worth more than btc-e, so you take your coin off btc-e and dump it on gox. btc-e bitcoin value is always based off the gox price, if gox goes up, btc goes up, if it goes down.. well you know. I guess it must be my paranoia since btc-e released all the new altcoins bitcoin has been going down. |
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post on reddit and 4chan
you get donations correct, but I think if people like what they see they will donate something.
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Wait, you're saying they dump their (free, extra) bitcoins for fiat?
That doesn't make much sense does it?
The whole thing about the minor altcoins is you don't have any significant electricity or capital expenditure (rigs) to pay for, they are pretty much free, so they are a free way to get lots of extra bitcoins.
You already get plenty of bitcoins to pay all your bills anyway, so any bitcoins you are going to dump are separate from all these frivolous newcoins you can pick up thousands of with just one old 5870 diverted from mining all the merge-able SHA256 coins.
So all you're doing with these newcoins is hoarding more bitcoins than you would be able to if you only got bitcoins directly without mucking around with newcoins.
Why the heck would anyone dump bitcoins for fiat when they don't have to?
What you're dumping you would anyway have dumped even if you had not gotten some free extra coins by playing the newcoins.
-MarkM-
If I buy 1 bitcoin, buy your 1 altcoin, you cash out your 1 bitcoin, I still have my alt coin. Now I trade my alt coin all day long ignoring the bitcoin market. The bitcoin market loses out. Now 1 coin doesn't matter, but there are tens of thousands worth every day. That doesn't seem like much but gox is doing like 250k a day? |
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The money that people use to buy alt currencies has to come from somewhere. People usually buy litecoins or bitcoins first then they invest it in alt currencies.
These cryptocurrencies don't hurt btc at all. Instead they help raise the market cap of all cryptos. You don't buy alt coins with fiat. You buy it priced with other cryptocurrencies. When people sell alt coins they receive bitcoins and litecoins. They don't usually cash this out for fiat. Usually they just hold the bitcoin and litecoin. People who believe in alt coins usually believe in main coins too. They just wished they could have gotten on the boat sooner.
To keep the price moving around you need active trades. The only way btc come into play is when they're purchased, then they're traded for these other alts all day long. You have to also remember, to cash out these alt coins, they first have to convert to BTC, then dump. On BTC-E there are plenty of high rollers doing 500k-600k trades all day long. If that were in BTC, or the second best LTC, that would help the btc market. You get someone who managed to get 100k alt coins for dirt cheap, 1-2 btc, then 3 weeks later they're worth 45 btc, they buy from someone that was holding buyer dumps btc goes down. |
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LOL! You ever heard of the term Market Capitalization? The terms that are generated lastly have a tiny tiny tiny MC compared to BTCs. In other word they are in NO WAY to blame for the recent btc price drop. Also, nobody knows those new coins. Even LTC is unknown to 99% of all Bitcoin buyers not even to speak of altcoins such as FTC or BTB.
You realize BTC-E is a bigtime trader? BTC-E accepts quite a few.. even FTC now. If you're doing $3,000,000 a day in trades with these junk coins, that's bringing 1/5th out of trading bitcoin. |
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Its not how much they will be worth tommorow but how much they will be worth ain 4 or 8 or 12 ore more years when many of todhalve their block rewards a few (more) times.
Some of the CPU-mined coins for example are a few years old already and are not of the "same block reward forever" variety so the CPU miners hope all the GPUs will continue to ignore them until the block rward has halved at least once and maybe a few times...
-MarkM-
They wont be worth jack in 4 or 8 or 12 years. Bitcoin is supposed to be the 'gold' of currency. What is FTC- feathercoin? PVC piping? Who will accept currency equivalent to plastic. What are all vendors going to accept 102 different currencies? They have zero value, and way to late in the game to be of use. Its like coming up with the next gen MMORPG and make a flash/java side scroller in an already flooded market. |
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I agree. I'm not sure if it actually hurts the prices, but the current spam of alt coins is pretty bad. I've went on the Feathercoin train and profited, and am now profiting from BitBars, but I feel slightly bad for hopping on these trains. I mean, it's profitable but I feel like I'm turning into a greedy person. After the BitBar, I'm off the alt coins (atleast the new spammed ones, LTC,FTC,DVC seems good).
Because if one day there are 100,000 BTC being traded a day, then because 5 new coins came up in the past week, now only 75,000 are traded, it drops the price. |
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Anyone else think that alternates are hurting the price of BTC?
We keep getting new coins that just have a source code change that have 5 million made the first day, and everyone thinks they should be worth 25 cents. This is bringing money out of the market for BTC, and LTC, because everyone dumps them for these new coins, because by tomorrow they should be worth $1... for a worthless coin that only has the value of trade.
I guess now the only way to make money these days is to design rename the newcoin mine it first and sell it in 3 days.
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Bitcoin mining will run out, then its just for transaction fees.
Countries wont be able to spend more than they own, and they cant create anymore.
The only thing I see as a flaw is the fact you can have a bitcoin coupon.
I.E...
Mtgox has a total of 5 BTC in their balance, but they make a 10BTC coupon.. Or can sell you that 10BTC coupon that you have to hold for 10 years to mature for interest.
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Doesn't the bitcoinfoundation own the .org?
I guess its the same people making millions of bucks to be a face to do nothing at all.
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Watching I'm at the part where you're talking about fees. WAY off
High risk is more like 9% with $1 transaction and a 6 month rolling reserve of 10-20%.
Not to big of a deal, I think you said 3%
Making it a more clear choice that high risk merchants should accept btc
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