Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.
I agree blackarrow is about as bad as it gets when it comes to ethics. |
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So roadstress, do you think Spondooliestech is actually going to meet their estimated specs this time?
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Ok, but please explain me the difference from SP-Tech pre-orders and AM's pre-orders. The way I see it is that since August the SP30 is a developed product just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities. If I am wrong please enlighten me.
Are purposely being obtuse or do you actually not see the difference? Spondoolies is not selling tested hardware. They are selling hardware with estimated specs. |
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Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?
Cos he works for Bitmain?........ What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months. Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries. That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not? Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues? In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally. They've taken the graph down now, but they claimed there was an insanely low number of DOA units. I had one dead blade, the other major reviewer had BOTH blades dead. Take a look at my thread - the same problem which comes up again and again is the blade the Pi is plugged into is DOA so it doesn't see any of them. Come at it from another angle... why would one post a graph of DOA units % when you've only been selling for about a week if there were no problems with DOA numbers? I can see your point I just don't think it's worth 5/10 for ethics. Yes there are DOA issues like any other manufacturer and they might have even lied about their DOA % but customers seem happy. How can they have a high DOA rate, bad customer support, and no negative trust ratings or scam accusations? I think you might be the only one who has bought from BTCGarden and think they are unethical. |
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- ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.
Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order. If the hardware has been built, tested, and is ready to be produced, it's BTO. If the hardware yet to be tested and the specs are estimations, it's a preorder. |
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Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?
Cos he works for Bitmain?........ What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months. Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries. That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not? Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues? In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally. |
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Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?
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Instead of speculating on conspiracy theories, you could simply read those documents.
Please share the link with us. I'd honestly love to know how HF could "legitimately" spend 10-20 times as much as every other company producing their 28nm hardware. IF you recall, we were all excited precisely because HF was the first to do 28nm, which may be a factor. How do you know what the handful of later 28nm competitors spent? Or are you just piling on, using vague figures pulled from thin air? https://cases.processgeneral.com/cases/document/case/5/hashfast-technologies-llc/Which document includes the financial info/excuses? 28nm tech is several years old so it's not like HF was paying a premium to be first. Hashfast also claims to have more GH/s per wafer than any other company so the chip cost shouldn't be the issue. I don't know what 28nm manufacturers spent on production but they are all (excluding KNC/CT) currently selling hardware for less than $1/gh so it has to be less than that. I do know that AM gen3 production costs are less than $0.4/gh so even with a process size disadvantage they could still produce hardware for less than 1/20th of what Hashfast spent. |
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Again, PBmining could dispel all rumors/doubt by simply providing a mining address. Why don't they?
Because they're clearly satisfied with how their service is turning out and doesn't feel the need to please everyone that's screaming ponzi?  That makes no sense. Why would you purposely turn away potential customers? If there are so many people screaming ponzi, wouldn't the logical response be to prove you are not a ponzi? Why would PBmining spend so much time/effort implementing a complicated coin mixer AFTER people begin the ponzi accusations? Did Mr PBmining wake up one day and think to himself "how can I make my company look much more sketchy and make it much harder for me to acquire customers?" PBmining could be massive if they would have just proved their legitimacy 10 months ago. I'd guess they could have more 10PH/s by now if they didn't limit their customer base to gamblers and gullible noobs. |
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Instead of speculating on conspiracy theories, you could simply read those documents.
Please share the link with us. I'd honestly love to know how HF could "legitimately" spend 10-20 times as much as every other company producing their 28nm hardware. |
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All those ran with investments though, PBMining has not. I'd also guess they've reached their investment peak long time ago ( the point where it'd be the most profitable to run with the investments ). You could be right but I don't think there is any way to know when they will/have peaked. Look at the "sent" chart: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/address/1Payday1sm5wGqtatKscfXnxARZ2B2MF3zTheir payouts/customers have been increasing pretty steadily so I think it's possible they have hopes of reaching a higher peak. Anyways for every reason that they might be legit, there are a dozen reasons they are probably not. Again, PBmining could dispel all rumors/doubt by simply providing a mining address. Why don't they? |
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=snip=
Even mega-scale mining operations with the cheapest electricity in the world cannot compete with PBmining and their free electricity generator.
They don't really offer free electricity, we are forced to give some BTC when we buy GHs but I don't know how many u BTC they charge per GHs. Anybody?  ~~MZ~~ MrTeal summarized it quite nicely: The proof is that people are getting their payments every week, and this since January.
He's saying the offer is too good. Right now they are charging $0.60 per GH/s for a 5 year "guaranteed" contract. Out of that, they have to pay 1. Capital cost of the equipment 2. Capital cost of the facility its housed in 3. Maintenance and replacement of failures for 5 years 4. Power for 5 years 5. A normal profit Just look at the power cost: Even if they somehow average 0.2J/GH/s over that time (3.5x better than anything on the market) and pay $0.04/kWh, that's 8.76kWh and $0.35 in power. Equipment costs are similar, even in bulk that's another $0.30/GH/s. That's just the initial investment in equipment, it says nothing of the additional investment needed to keep pace with efficiency. If they are doing what they claim which is actually operating the hashrate they're selling, there's no way they can do so and still make money. If they actually are in Saskatchewan as they claim, the numbers are even worse as you won't get power anywhere close to $0.04/kWh. Why do you think actual hardware manufacturers are charging more than PBmining for cloudmining contracts? Don't forget that they have huge discounts on hardware/electricity which PBmining doesn't (a few TH/s per week is hardly enough for any sort of bulk discounts/economies of scale). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Canada#RatesWith only ~3MW (assuming it's not a ponzi) PBmining would only qualify for medium power, so at best they are paying ~$0.07/kwh which is pretty bad compared to their competition in Iceland/Washington who pay as little as $0.03/kwh. How does PBmining have the best contract prices while paying more than twice the price for electricity? How do they make a profit? And the most important question: Why is pbmining mixing coins if they are supposedly legit? If anyone can give me a logical answer I'll leave this thread permanently. |
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Fact is that people do get paid, and they genuinely like it. ^ Said anyone who ever participated in a ponzi before it collapsed. It's just sad to see the bitcoin community falling for the same scams over and over which can be easily prevented. If the everyone would just adopt the most basic standards like requiring proof of mining via a mining address then 99% of cloudmining scams could be avoided. Although I think most people already require simple proof of legitimacy, there's a never ending wave of noobs who oppose the idea. But you're right I think I've made my point, I'll leave and let you guys enjoy your gambling. I just hope you guys are honest when spamming your referral links and don't pretend pbmining is a completely legit mining operation without massive risks for a tiny reward. |
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WOW I left this forum some months ago, I am back and I see people still arguing the same stuff against PBMining. Truth is that this company has been up since the beginning and never failed a payment. If this is a Ponzi, it is the most customer support efficient Ponzi I have ever seen. Anyhow, people should stop bothering asking the same questions all the time. The owner of PBMining made it clear a loooooong time ago that he will not provide info on hardware, business strategy, etc.
I disagree. If pbmining was a ponzi they would have absolutely no problem lasting this long because they gained plenty of new customers to payout the few early birds and ROI is capped at ~5-10% profit unlike most ponzis which give huge compounded returns. If pbmining is a legit mining operation then they are without a doubt the most efficient operation in the history of bitcoin mining. Even mega-scale mining operations with the cheapest electricity in the world cannot compete with PBmining and their free electricity generator. It is quite an efficient and well executed ponzi, I'll give them that, but let's not kid anyone in to thinking it's a legit operation. Just look at the evidence, there is literally none to suggest they are actually mining yet a never ending trail of red flags to suggest they are a ponzi. PBmining is the only company that is completely fine with 90% of the bitcoin community thinking they are a scam.) |
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Paid.
Purchased 180 GHS (6 x 30) for .288 BTC.
This first payout is very small, only .00158262 BTC,
since those six parts were from one and a half day to
a few hours old at the time of payout. According to the
co´s global stats next payout for a full week should be
around .02 BTC.
I've got a sneaking suspicion this is another PBmining shill account. Can you prove me wrong and show the blockchain transaction ID's for your 6 purchases? Not everyone who participates or does business is a shill. 1354hgPgB8HjZ3qSBAXPzFgbdTbf5RPwiC for my payouts since the beginning. I never made such a claim. Like I said, it's only a hunch based on his totally rational comment about buying more GH/s specifically because I pointed out PBmining had slipped up his shilling. Should be fairly easy to disprove me by posting blockchain records like you just did. It's just a shame that shilling is such a big part of the bitcoin community. And before you call me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist, take a look at the digital goods section of the forum and be amazed with the amount of accounts that are being sold/bought. |
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Paid.
Purchased 180 GHS (6 x 30) for .288 BTC.
This first payout is very small, only .00158262 BTC,
since those six parts were from one and a half day to
a few hours old at the time of payout. According to the
co´s global stats next payout for a full week should be
around .02 BTC.
I've got a sneaking suspicion this is another PBmining shill account. Can you prove me wrong and show the blockchain transaction ID's for your 6 purchases? |
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The USD:BTC rate remained bound within a historically narrow $90-$120 range for the period preceding HF taking orders.
That's one reason why nobody thought to clarify the then seemingly unlikely "what if BTC goes to $1 or $1000" scenarios.
The other reason was that common sense and contract law make it obvious that an item priced in USD will be refunded on that basis, and not on any exchange rate that never remains constant.
Whether you paid for your $6800 ASIC in Euros, USD, BTCs, or gold coins, there was never a reasonable basis to expect a refund equivalent to anything but the $6800 price.
Expectations of HF refunding any different amount, EG BTC worth $68 or $68,000, were never reasonable nor had any basis in common sense, much less contract law.
So what you're saying is, the promise "if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid" was a flat out lie? I agree with you! [Back in the wild,wild west.] I'll pay you 1 ounce of gold for your daughter. Not the one with a bad hip or a training bra, only the one with D cups (anachronistic references, I know) and child bearing hips. 2 months later.... I have no wife! Thats it, where is my ounce of gold?! (The merchant response...below this line) "Well sir, technically you gave up your ounce of gold and it was worth 3 lead bars at the time of exchange. Now it is only worth 2 lead bars. We technically only accept lead bars, therefore you will be refunded 2 lead bars." Hey I don't want any lead bars just my ounce of gold! "Sorry sir, we actually converted it into lead bars, so lead bars is what you'll get." Fine, take those two lead bars and buy 1 ounce of gold and then give me that back. "I am sorry sir, those 2 lead bars aren't worth 1 ounce of gold. So we cannot do that." Wait, for God sakes, you said it was the same equivalent! I just want what I have given you for a wife... "Thats the market sir, not our problem." (Sounds familiar?) Your analogy is a bit off because nobody can even get a 2 lead bar refund. The money has disappeared out of thin air along with your promised bride. |
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Forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument.
Hashfast couldn't even give out USD refunds so either way you were fucked.
The problem is that hashfast spent more than $10/gh producing hardware that every other company was able to produce for $0.5-1/gh.
Either they were mind bogglingly incompetent, they were scammed, or they are scammers. Take your pick.
I'd love to "forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument." I thought that discussion was concluded months ago, but some fucking idiots are still clinging to their debunked confirmation biases in favor of Free Windfall Pony and other fucking idiots like you still can't comprehend or wont accept that Chapter 11 != scam no matter how many times it's explained. It's funny you say "some fucking idiots" yet literally everyone agrees that you/hashfast are full of shit. You're an idiot if you think chapter 11 automatically means it's not a scam. That would only make sense in icebreakers alternate universe where bankruptcy fraud never occurs, delays never happen, and the btc exchange rate is perfectly stable over long periods of time. Have you ever heard of the phrase "adverse business conditions?" Adverse business conditions, not incompetence or scamming, are the most common cause of bankruptcy. In this case, the double whammy of skyrocketing difficulty and BTC valuation combined with a failed initial board design were sufficient to drain HF's limited resources.
Better question, do you understand the phrase "adverse business conditions"? Acquiring millions of dollars in preorders is NOT adverse business conditions. Designing a chip that is more GH/s per wafer than any other company at the time is NOT adverse business conditions. A failed initial board design is in fact an adverse business condition but how could that possibly drain ALL of HF's resources? The only explanation I can think of would be an incompetent hardware designer who was being paid way too much to fail repeatedly. (maybe it was all part of his plan to drain HF's resources?) Did you miss the hearing where the judge asked the US Attorney point blank for evidence of incompetence on the part of HF, and the US Attorney's silly arguments were literally laughed out of court? There is an mp3 available, so please review it and stop making yourself look like a fucking idiot by continuing to assert explicitly rejected claims. Your opinions already had their day in court and went nowhere but straight into the trash can, because they are rubbish.  No I don't care enough about this case but I'd love to hear it. I'd just love to know that there was a place somewhere at some point in time where people didn't think Hashfast was full of shit. To be honest I'd be impressed if Hashfast did manage to launder/tunnel the money successfully but I don't think they are competent enough. I think they probably got scammed somewhere along the line and lost millions in some absurd way. |
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Forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument.
Hashfast couldn't even give out USD refunds so either way you were fucked.
The problem is that hashfast spent more than $10/gh producing hardware that every other company was able to produce for $0.5-1/gh.
Either they were mind bogglingly incompetent, they were scammed, or they are scammers. Take your pick.
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