I hope you will find a lasting and solid solution to the card dilemma. I'm still patiently waiting and I haven't totally lost hope and faith in Cryptopay. The app is still on my phone.

For now, I'm using Localbitcoins for my BTC to fiat conversion needs. In the long term, I do want a card of course so please look for banks which might be willing to offer their partnership.

I suggest you start looking in countries with a strong anti-US sentiment.

Yes, really unfortunate. I had high hopes for this Taiwanese company's card. Shattered hopes.

If you don't mind the several days' wait for money to be loaded into the card and the risk of being required to reverify yourself at any random point in the future, the card should be a good temporary alternative while waiting for a more solid and cost-friendly solution from other providers.

This card is expensive. That's one. Then you have the ATM fee. Their card provider charges 2.5% of the withdrawn amount. So for $1k it will be $25. For 2k it would be $50. Compare this to the MyChoice standard ATM fee of $3 regardless of the amount withdrawn.

Then you have the loading time. It is not real time which is a major inconvenience. It takes ages and you're not given an exact time or day to expect the money to appear on the card so you have to have a back up card when shopping or having dinner somewhere or using it at the ATM.

Be mindful of HK and Chinese holidays because when you load the card, it can take ages. Just like this announcement they made:

https://blog.wagecan.com/2017/09/28/hk-national-holiday-announcemen/

While waiting for a more solid solution from the European providers, Localbitcoins and Bitstamp are (for now) my reliable to-go places for bitcoin to fiat transactions. Both never failed me.

No, I won't recommend it. I used to have this card but I opted out and closed my account. The card, for one, is too expensive. The annual ATM transaction limit is USD 25k. You're allowed max one card only. The worst part is the ATM fee. The acquiring bank (the bank operating the ATM you use the card on) charges their own fee (this is usually between $3 to $5 per transaction) which is OK. The not-so-nice part is WageCan's fee. It's 2.5% of the transaction amount. So, say, you withdraw $2000 (the card allows a daily withdraw limit of $2500 if you are fully verified) then you pay 2.5% of that amount on top of the amount you are withdrawing (plus the ATM fee). So WageCan's ATM fee alone would be $50. Total: $2000 + $50 + the ATM operator's fee.

https://wagecan.com/Pricing

Don't forget, you also have to load the card first which means you load at WageCan's exchange rate. Loading takes ages (which is why I closed the account). I loaded on Friday... no funds yet on the card on Monday evening. Loading is not real time which is not good if you need to do time-critical purchases with the card.

When I applied for the card, I submitted all documents and was fully verified to KYC level 2 (their highest KYC level). Fast forward two months later and I attempted to load 0.35 bitcoins (about 2k USD) on the card and I see my status downgraded back to level 1 which means lower card limits. I asked why the arbitrary downgrading after full verification, they respond oh you need to do it again.

Very inconsistent service quality. They did this last year to me too. At that time, they were using Transforex cards. They abruptly stopped card access and asked to redo the KYC verification, despite being fully verified already. Submitted documents again and this time their Chinese bank says uhmmm no sorry, rejected.

At this time, I strongly recommend against using this card. You might be on a queue to pay for your coffee or at a store or a mall.. then there goes the email: Card limited. Reverify yourself.

I closed my account. The card might work, yes, but it is a very expensive card and inconsistent service.

I'm trading my bitcoins on Bitstamp and Localbitcoins hence on. As for cards, I will wait for solid card solutions in the future.

No, I won't recommend it. I used to have this card but I opted out and closed my account. The card, for one, is too expensive. The annual ATM transaction limit is USD 25k. You're allowed max one card only. The worst part is the ATM fee. The acquiring bank (the bank operating the ATM you use the card on) charges their own fee (this is usually between $3 to $5 per transaction) which is OK. The not-so-nice part is WageCan's fee. It's 2.5% of the transaction amount. So, say, you withdraw $2000 (the card allows a daily withdraw limit of $2500 if you are fully verified) then you pay 2.5% of that amount on top of the amount you are withdrawing (plus the ATM fee). So WageCan's ATM fee alone would be $50. Total: $2000 + $50 + the ATM operator's fee.

https://wagecan.com/Pricing

Don't forget, you also have to load the card first which means you load at WageCan's exchange rate. Loading takes ages (which is why I closed the account). I loaded on Friday... no funds yet on the card on Monday evening. Loading is not real time which is not good if you need to do time-critical purchases with the card.

When I applied for the card, I submitted all documents and was fully verified to KYC level 2 (their highest KYC level). Fast forward two months later and I attempted to load 0.35 bitcoins (about 2k USD) on the card and I see my status downgraded back to level 1 which means lower card limits. I asked why the arbitrary downgrading after full verification, they respond oh you need to do it again.

Very inconsistent service quality. They did this last year to me too. At that time, they were using Transforex cards. They abruptly stopped card access and asked to redo the KYC verification, despite being fully verified already. Submitted documents again and this time their Chinese bank says uhmmm no sorry, rejected.

At this time, I strongly recommend against using this card. You might be on a queue to pay for your coffee or at a store or a mall.. then there goes the email: Card limited. Reverify yourself.

Horrible experience. I would get a heart attack if this happened to me. This is wealth I can only dream of.

I wish I could have seen today's bitcoin price back in 2013. I wouldn't have panic-sold all my bitcoins back when prices were diving after Liberty Reserve was seized. Looking back at what could or might have been if I acted and decided otherwise makes me depressed.

These are sad developments. Not sure what solutions there are for crypto companies such as Wirex and Cryptopay. I bet the government played a role in Visa's and MasterCard's decision to discontinue card services for crypto services.

A potential solution in distant future would be to introduce a new card system unique to crypto services. But then again no ATM will offer fiat withdrawals for such cards if, again, Visa and MasterCard puts pressure on their affiliate banks.

I'm surprised though. WageCan offers their own cards and they are not banned. The card is a MasterCard. I have it and it works nicely.

This is surely a scam. That protonmail name (adam smithen) sounds and stinks so scammy.

And I'm sure there is no loan. You will offer a loan for a fee. And that fee must be paid upfront. Either that or you send a borrower a check (cheque for our Commonwealth friends) which shows an amount much higher than the agreed loan amount. The rationale behind this is the check is fake and it takes times for banks to clear them. In the meantime, the bank will allow the customer to tentatively use the amount shown on the check. American banks have this practice of letting their customers access funds on a yet to be cleared check. When this happens, you then tell your victim that you "accidentally" wrote a larger amount on the check and if he could please send the difference back by Western Union or bitcoin asap.

The scam is discovered only days or weeks or even months later when the check bounces or is found to be fake.

He meant the prices are prohibitively high. Prohibitive in the sense that it can be seen as extortionate or excessive. Bitcoin is not prohibited (which has a different meaning to that of prohibitive).

And yes, OP, bitcoin is traded at scandalous margins in SA. I suggest buying from one of the more reputable and established exchanges. The problem with SA is that exchange control has only partially eased and never yet been abolished. I did my commercial pilot license at 43 Air School in Port Alfred about 8 years ago and back then it wasn't easy to move money to and from SA from overseas. I had to justify everything with invoices and receipts. Every time I sent money from Singapore to South Africa Nedbank would call me and ask me tons of questions about it. It was even harder to send money outside SA. They wanted proof those very same funds originated from overseas.

I'm not sure if exchange control is still a challenge for South Africans. There is an annual allowed amount (a quota) for certain things like education, travel, investing overseas etc but there is paperwork involved for that. How this affects buying bitcoins.. not sure. With bitcoin exchanges in SA you need to register and provide your green ID book details so they can track who and what money is being invested.

Please state your rates here and explain the procedure. This is important because of scammers telling people to send first. Yes it is PayPal and it is reversible but this is no reason to send first. It is a time-proven scam tactic. The scammer says oh well PayPal is reversible so you send the money first and wait a few days before I send the bitcoins so I can be sure that the money hits my bank account. And you can dispute the payment if you don't get coins from me.

No.. that won't do. Disputing it doesn't guarantee that money will be reversed.

I suggest you use escrow for this transaction. Find a good escrow service here and send the bitcoins to that escrow for safekeeping. You will get lots of offers if you do this.

Skype and email are so 1990s. And they are a scammer's playground. Deal here. Transparently and honestly.

Please stop spamming this thread with the same refund-my-$2.50! again and again and again.

I believe they already refunded this money (0.0006) but you are now not happy that when you attempt to withdraw it, the amount you get is only 0.0001 after the miner's fee of 0.0005. (based on pic above)

Is this your last cash? You should try contacting them on their facebook and twitter pages or by contacting their staff on your account. You're just wasting your time by posting here again and again. I'm pretty sure none of their backend staff read posts here.

On your cryptopay account, convert the USD amount to btc first. You can then transfer it to an external wallet.

It's hard to trust exchanges which have shady and cumbersome ways of being contacted. It's just clearly and plainly suspicious when nobody can be reached. They are custodians of money, just like a bank, so they should have people who can be reached at all times. If (like the case above and many others) there are issues that need to be resolved, how can one do this if they intentionally make it difficult for them to be reached.

Say what you like but it is really bad when one needs to turn to their facebook page to get in touch with them. Good companies with trustworthy corporate ethics have phone numbers answered by real people who can resolve issues when needed.

Using an exchange's service is about enjoying those services and not being inconvenienced or stressed up. After all, one signs up for an account to enjoy what they openly and unashamedly advertise on their homepage: Coinbase is the world's most popular bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin wallet. We make it easy to securely buy, use, store, and accept bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin.

Square cash is a reversible payment method. I urge everyone not to take up this offer. They are just like Venmo and PayPal, aggressively anti-bitcoin payment services.

Even if you withdraw square cash to your bank account, they can still recall the payment and put your bank account at risk of being flagged for review.

Escrow will not protect the coin seller. The reversal can happen days or weeks after the transaction. By that time, the bitcoins would have been tumbled by a mixer and cashed out, leaving the coin seller with no recourse but to explain to his bank why or what caused the reversal.

Be careful everyone. Amex is a credit card. PayPal is a payment service. The common denominator here is both are reversible. Loading Amex funds to a payment service such as Skrill may or might work but if funds are reversed or found to be fraudulently accessed, a chain reaction will ensue. Amex will reverse, followed by Skrill, followed by all other payments sent from the Skrill account such as bank withdrawals of those funds loaded from the Amex card.

PayPal.. we all know what risks are involved. It is reversible up to 180 days.

2 BTC. That's more than $10k. Be very careful when dealing with this newbie. All the red flags are there. You can ignore it at your peril.

Or did he mean $2? (which I don't believe)

If you can let a reputable escrow here hold 0.6 or more btc worth of altcoins for 8 days, then you stand a chance of seeing offers pouring in right and left.

Without collateral, your chance of borrowing $3000+ worth of bitcoins is zero. Disappointing I know but then again I'm sure you knew this when you quickly made this throwaway account.

If this is true, thanks for the report and good of you to share this here. I have just $26 on my Cryptopay account and I'm keeping it that way, thanks to my being financially conservative and cautious. If unloading is not possible, then the cards are at risk of being declined at merchants and ATMs. Will not use their services until they sort this out.

Good thing I didn't join their ICO. Those who did invest might see their funds stuck in a company with an uncertain future.

I don't believe it's exclusively Visa's move and decision to restrict these cards to certain parts of the world only. I'm convinced governments played a role in this decision. Visa has an interest in maximizing revenue and with that comes product expansion. You can't generate revenue by limiting products to certain countries only.

It's probably the US again, putting pressure on the EU and the UK which in turn orders Visa Europe to keep an eye on Wave Crest's card business.

I recommend you to buy... nowhere.

Nowhere because I know you intend to scam. To cheat and steal. To defraud.

An unverified account.. a newbie on this site... a risky and reversible payment method. Buying non-reversible goods. You disguised this post in a general way to avoid being red-tagged by DT members here. Your real intention is to invite other (naive) members here to consider selling coins to you.

All the red flags are there. Be very careful when dealing with this person.

Consider your bitcoins lost forever. You should have used Chipmixer. You wouldn't have lost your coins.

I don't understand why people use shady mixers when there are reputable ones with a good and solid reputation. It's as if they are tempting fate or being experimental. Well, this is what happens when you inject funds in questionable mixers.

WebMoney is a Russian payment system. And as you can imagine, with anything Russian, you can count on them taking their time. It will not be quick and you might not even see it resolved.

Yes, it will be a frustrating and protracted process. There is the language barrier of course, for one. Then you have the complicated fine print which can be confusing rules.

I suggest you contact WebMoney support staff directly and try your very best to achieve a resolution in your favor. It will not be easy and they will probably make you jump through hoops.

This is why I never use all these shady payment systems... OKPay.. Mayzus.. WebMoney.. Payeer.. Perfect Money.

Just look at what happened to Liberty Reserve years ago.

Remember, everyone, investing in something is akin to loaning money to someone. So however you phrase the business plan or look at it from any angle, it is still a loan. You are advancing money to someone for a project or purpose and you hope to recover your investment (with a profit of course) at some point in the future. It is a loan.

Loans should be backed and secured by solid collateral or some kind of asset which ensures the principal amount loaned is recoverable.

If you invest in something without asking for collateral or doing due diligence, you are playing with fire.