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8221  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: China bank deposits....what about Hong Kong? on: December 28, 2013, 06:31:01 AM
Hong Kong is treated as a foreign country.

Capital controls on sending funds to Hong Kong are effectively the same for ordinary mainlanders as sending the money direct to the USA. 
8222  Economy / Speculation / Re: China 31st of January on: December 28, 2013, 06:13:14 AM
Analysis on Reddit

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1tutrc/analysis_of_chinas_change_of_policy_and_the/
8223  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: December 28, 2013, 04:23:05 AM
Would a trust like this ever need to sell its bitcoin holdings?

Yes. Think of this trust as mutual fund. If an investor, after March 2014, requests a distribution, they will need to sell to raise cash.

So how do we trigger a stampede out of the fund?  Grin
8224  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com ! on: December 27, 2013, 11:17:28 PM
Forget Bitcoin for a moment let's talk USD. 

Bob owes me $US100.  I don't know Bob but he says he will ripple me the money. 

In order for Bob to ripple me the $US100 I have to trust him for US$100 (you cannot ripple USD without trust). But what I don't know is that Bob has created a second account called Bob's_sock_puppet.  Bob has trusted Bob's_sock_puppet for $US 1 million.
You don't know Bob but you trust him for $100? Pretty stupid move. Don't do that. Not in real life, not in Ripple.
Apart from that, you really don't care whether Bob trusts his own sock puppet for $1000000, as you don't have any trust relationship with his sock puppet.

At 9.10 am I trust Bob for $US100.  At 9.12 am Bob's_sock_puppet ripples me for $US100. 

Now Bob owes me $100 and Bob's_sock_puppet also owes me $100.  Both then default and I am twice as worse off as before. 
What do you mean by "Bob's_sock_puppet ripples me"? Do you have any business relationship with Bob's_sock_puppet?

Let me know if I have misunderstood the mechanics. 
Yes. Completely.

The only situation in which you should extend trust to a ripple account is when you are really sure that the owner of this account will pay his dues *in real life* whenever you request that payment.
That means that you can trust a gateway for $100 if you can get those $100 in real life from that gateway. For example, you could trust bitstamp for USD when you have a bitstamp account and you know that you can withdraw $100 from said account.

If you want to receive USD in Ripple from a stranger, request that he sends it to you in a currency issued by someone you trust, for example Bitstamp. He can then buy Bitstamp USD within Ripple using whatever currency he manages to get into Ripple (for example, DividendRippler BTC or LTC). Of course, he can use his own Bitstamp account just as well if he happens to have one. But what you end up with is $100 USD issued by Bitstamp, not Bob. And unless Bitstamp goes belly-up (which is of course a possibility, shit tends to happen) you can withdraw the $100 from Bitstamp anytime you want to.

Onkel Paul

Thank you this has been a highly educational experience so far. 

So lesson 1 is I would be a fool to use Ripple as a peer to peer payment protocol.  Instead I should use trusted gateways.

So Bob will pay my gateway in USD and my gateway will issue me an IOU. My gateway will then spend Bob's USD on pizza and beer.  So long as my gateway issues IOUs faster than funds are redeemed the beer and pizza will keep flowing.  If redemptions get too much they can always do a Gox and slow down fiat withdrawals. 

This sounds marvellous.  I am eager to set up Hairy Gateway right away.  I will issue Hairy USD to all comers. I will also set up another gateway called Bitfin which issues BitYuan and another called Doge Gateway which deals in Doge coins.  To show how trustworthy this all is Bitfin will trust Hairy and Hairy will trust Doge.  As a New Years special everyone that trusts Doge will get 1 Doge coin.

Please tell me more about your accreditation process for gateways.  I have an extensive criminal history for financial fraud so I hope you will not do extensive due diligence or run a criminal record check on me.  Even if you do I will just register the gateway in the name of my 12 year old cousin who has never been caught. 

When my gateways all blow up, I will start new ones with new fancy names and special promotions. 

Looking forward to receiving more information about becoming a gateway king.


8225  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: so are coins 2.0 / 3.0 going to eat btc??? on: December 27, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
Emunie looks interesting but they really need to change the name...

+1
8226  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: so are coins 2.0 / 3.0 going to eat btc??? on: December 27, 2013, 07:31:09 PM
oh god, your ignorance ...you arrogant morons.

I abhor personal attacks - there is no call for it here ... and wish to dissociate myself from bittick.  Please don't think all eMunie enthusiasts are alike.

Is there an Emunie white paper?
8227  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com ! on: December 27, 2013, 01:47:59 PM
Forget Bitcoin for a moment let's talk USD. 

Bob owes me $US100.  I don't know Bob but he says he will ripple me the money. 

In order for Bob to ripple me the $US100 I have to trust him for US$100 (you cannot ripple USD without trust). But what I don't know is that Bob has created a second account called Bob's_sock_puppet.  Bob has trusted Bob's_sock_puppet for $US 1 million. 

At 9.10 am I trust Bob for $US100.  At 9.12 am Bob's_sock_puppet ripples me for $US100. 

Now Bob owes me $100 and Bob's_sock_puppet also owes me $100.  Both then default and I am twice as worse off as before. 

Let me know if I have misunderstood the mechanics. 
8228  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: VISAcoin----Website development[Paid by btc or vsc] on: December 27, 2013, 09:34:01 AM
the coin is just free ware open source.  visa has noone to sue. its all p2p decentralized

So it will be Napster all over again and Visa will sue ISPs that allow users to run the Visa client (or even Bitcoin QT) and then ISPs will start shutting down users.  The protocol doesn't need the added heartache just pick a name that isn't a blatant rip off of an existing established payment processor.  

You may as well call it US Dollar coin and call yourself the US Federal Reserve Bank and see how much shit you can cause for the community.  
8229  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com ! on: December 27, 2013, 08:35:34 AM
I think I understand a little too well.  Your trust pathways are built on people trusting other people and swapping crypto for IOUs.

I wait for six confirmations.  I trust no one more than I have to.

Anyone that trusts anyone in bitcoinland is an idiot. You would think people could learn from Sheep Marketplace. Or Bitcoinica. Or Lehman Brothers.  

Anyway good luck with Ripple.  
8230  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com ! on: December 27, 2013, 08:13:21 AM
Maybe you can clear something up for me.

In order for the Ripple payment system to work, you have to trust someone with your money.  True or false?

If the answer is true, then Ripple (and XRP) are fundamentally flawed. 
8231  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin In India Under attack :- global community please help on: December 27, 2013, 07:56:18 AM
Wikipedia says that under FEMA any foreign exchange activity is illegal unless expressly permitted.  This is a very unusual and harsh law by English law standards (which India follows because it used to be an English colony).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Exchange_Management_Act

Looks like bitcoin will stay strictly black market in India for the foreseeable future. 
8232  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin In India Under attack :- global community please help on: December 27, 2013, 06:25:38 AM
Sad but not unexpected.

India has strong capital controls to try to stem flight.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/08/capital-controls-india

We should expect strong resistance from corrupt regimes everywhere.  But this is Bitcoins mission in action - providing modern financial tools to the other 6 billion people on the planet. 

I expect zero coin will to be a key weapon in fighting corrupt regimes. 
8233  Economy / Speculation / Re: Anyone "all in" on bitcoin? on: December 27, 2013, 04:47:01 AM
I have less than one percent of my assets in bitcoin. I love bitcoin but don't trust it.  To be fair I am also a late adopter so capital appreciation has not been a factor. 
8234  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: so are coins 2.0 / 3.0 going to eat btc??? on: December 27, 2013, 03:49:46 AM
Mastercoin is a premined heap of doge.   All wild promises with no clue how to implement in reality.  Same with anything coming out of Invictus.
8235  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Just out of Newbie looking for advice and want to make statement on: December 27, 2013, 03:47:14 AM
Tl;dr summary

Hi I am new here and excited about bitcoin.  I am ambitious but not sure how to start. 
8236  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Don't invest in bitcoin; invest in services! on: December 27, 2013, 02:26:31 AM
The core problem is that fast growing tech start ups tend to have all of their value stripped out before they IPO. Just look at Twitter, Facebook etc.   which makes coins exciting because there is a chance to beat Wall Street at its own game.
8237  Economy / Speculation / Re: Breaking News: Indian Central Bank causes Largest Bitcoin Exchange Shutdown on: December 26, 2013, 11:27:13 PM
Old news.  No one cares.  

its not old, the news is dated today.

The advisory was issued two days ago and has been all over the Indian press.  Two days is a long time in bitcoin land. 
8238  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Looking for victims of potential fraud at Plus500 UK Limited on: December 26, 2013, 10:37:11 PM
FYI Plus500 advertises heavily in Australia.  Don't know if Australians affected.  Class action suits are widely used in Australia and it is possible to get litigation funding for high value suits that have a good chance of success. 
8239  Economy / Speculation / Re: Breaking News: Indian Central Bank causes Largest Bitcoin Exchange Shutdown on: December 26, 2013, 09:09:16 PM
Old news.  No one cares. 
8240  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 26, 2013, 09:00:59 PM
This is more like the Bitcoin I know and love.  The lack of volatility over Xmas was disturbing. Cmon we need a 50% price drop now just to keep everyone on their toes.  
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