I have been away for a while. Letting Gotham take care of itself for a few months. Someone paged moi? No message though...

But yeah, that's about all. A lot of "generous" people still around. Not surprised. Plenty of "generosity" on these threads...

I see you continue being quite "generous" yourself... how does that work for you?

This guy Shannon Code, he's about to.... well, you know... he and his team have so many ideas.... buying a company, three planes, a building (70 floors minimum- in Manhattan...  Any moment now...

The "generosity" towards the "devs" here has been, and remains being simply mind boggling.

Yep. I myself am prepared to buy a ton of it when it hit the 50 sat bottom it will inevitably hit. So if you are ready to wait a few months, maybe a few years, you should start accumulating? You must be making a killing using the "counter" strategy.

It's only a matter of time that Black coin, Vericoin, Vior, Bitecent and all the rest of that amazing gallery -including NAUT, will make a huige come back. A 100-foler is just on the horizon and just you will benefit from it. Wow, it must be tiresome to be an individual of such brilliant mind...

You are quite right, I believe, regarding price/barometer. But you forget the most important and the determining factor in NXT, since practically the very beginning: The fat wallets owners have one (logical) purpose. One only: To cash in on their holdings as fast (but orderly) as possible. Wouldn't you? They own many millions, tens of millions of it. And they won't be wealthy until they sell, at a decent price, most of their holdings. So the selling pressure is absolutely constant. At any price. And, logically, sucks up every wave of buying. The market doesn't allow for more of what has happened in the last few weeks (much bigger fish to catch) and therefore the price will continue going down... all the way to where it was before the Ardor announcement. No one of the small fish is selling (they are all accumulating ARDR), but the fat wallets are selling as much as they can and as quickly as they can. Like I said, they do it in an orderly fashion to keep the price from nosediving, but the selling is relentless. That was before ARDR and continues now that the influx from current holders have subside. That's how NXT "works".

As for Ardor itself, I have been trying to understand what it is and I believe I have it, finally. It's just a relative small advance in the same already existent technology. I guess what I was hoping for was some kind of actual REAL WORLD use of it. There's none. It isn't a technology that is going to be used by any real company. Any bank. Any retailer. Any exchange. Any country. It is a technology that will be used -as it is already- in the "Asset exchange", which is basically trading between a minimal group of people "assets" of no value or relevance in the real world. Or by chimeric "customers", such as NAUT or the Democracy thing that no country will ever use in the real world. So, again, it is something sold only to the exact same of convinced people with the exact same amount of resources but that is no closer to any mainstream use than it was two and a half years ago. Oh, and yes, the blockchain technology is being pushed in the real world, but it is being pushed (studied, experimented with...) by big REAL companies that will eventually come up with ready-to-implement solutions that will be sold to all the big companies (REAL ones) that are going to implement it.

As for the idea of decentralization... well, let's just say it is never, ever going to happen in the real world. Ever. And for good, evident reasons.

So now I finally understand that all the speak here -and in other boards- is directed at the "cult", not at the real world. But isn't it fun?

That is, obviously, not me. On both counts. But you have your own metrics as a recourse when straight answers don't seem to be available, right? Hey, it's your party...

the specific % is, obviously, impossible to know for certain and was offered as illustrative of the fact, that you know better than me, that the forging is some kind of lotto game in NXT in which the probabilities of forging increment exponentially with the amount of NXT forging. Giving that 70 at least, possibly 71 of the initial investors have not had the possibility of dumping not all but not even a small amount of their holdings in just over 2 years (not enough volume, sorry), it is evident that they still hold a gigantic amount of the initial distribution, in spite of those 43,000 accounts you mention, most of which were "play accounts", not real ones (and I guess you will be asking next how I know that, right?). Those amounts will achieve 99% -or more- of the forging in just the same way that, say 80% of the entries in a lottery would get 80% of the prizes... with time. In NXT case, since the probabilities of forging are incremental depending on the number of coins you have forging, the 99% probably, as I said, is conservative.

You asked.

I am going to disagree with the majority of your "facts" because they are not such. Not semantically and in all probability, neither in any other way. "Not knowing" in not a "fact" is a state or circumstance. And it doesn't deny the possibility, probability or certainty. It simply hides it. And we are talking NXT here, not BTC or any other crypto.

It also isn't a "fact" that NXT has been in a bear market for over 2 years: In any case NXT has behaved in a similar way to many of its contemporary ALTS, including BTC. You want to call it a "bear market"? Be my guest. Others would have reasons to believe it isn't such but a search for its real value (use) and that there is a strong possibility that that value would end up being ZERO. No "fact", opinion.

We haven't spoken here -yet- of my personal fears, what I am afraid or not of, or what should I do if I am in fact afraid.

And definitely we don't know if there's any "fact" -or to what extent- in your affirmation that "some of the initial stakeholders continuously pushing the price down". We know one of the 72, maybe 2, sold their entire holdings. And very little else. I happen to agree with the statement in which many of those 72 have been and continue cashing in as much as they reasonably can to see the fruits of their initial very wise/lucky investment but, far from a "fact" it's just, at best, a more or less educated conclusion, nothing else.

Thank you for the absolutely unnecessary advice, though.

I disagree: Explaining e-mail in layman's terms in the 90's, even the 1890's, couldn't have been simpler: Just like regular mail, only instant. They surely wouldn't have understood how it was possible but would immediately have understood what it actually does.

I'll go further and explain to you something maybe possible in the future that is not possible now and I am sure you will understand: Teletransportation. It's like flying from one place to another only without having to leave the current position to get to the new one. It is simple and clear enough.

What I am asking is exactly which current activity, or service, in whatever environment, be it individual, a company or a nation, can be vastly, evidently to anyone -AND VIABLY- improved by the usage of these childchains, in practical, current purposes of situations. And I offered an example that, apparently, is already in use (by Democracy Now). If you don't know, I'd appreciate if you don't contribute to the confusion. Otherwise, I'd appreciate any real knowledge. Thanks.

^^^^

I never said differently. But that hardly changes the facts stated above.

^^^ Thank you for trying but your infographics doesn't help me understand, even remotely, sorry. I take though that the DOS-WINDOWS comparison is, in fact, what I thought it was. In other words, that it wasn't at all necessary to add a new name to the project and it could have worked exactly the same under the same one, with or without the 2.0.

It would be very nice to understand exactly what these "childchains" can do in the actual world. And I'm sure I will eventually get it when I see regular companies -as opposed to digital concepts- and individuals using it for practical, day to day purposes. But, since we are in a controversial election year here in the US, exactly how that would have a use for Ardor or whatever you want to call it? There's already software in place in the booths and every interested individual or organization is aware that that software not only can but has been (admitted before a commission in the US Congress) manipulated. Now, exactly how would a child or no child chain work to ensure that every vote is properly counted? Maybe breaking down my questions to specific details it'll be easier to get them answered?

The other question is who will pay for it (and the obvious work of actually get it, whatever it is, fully tested and implemented) and to whom since no physical individual will be involved in this whole process, other than in the part of those who secure the service?

Again thank you for trying but if it cannot be explained in very basic, layman's terms, it is a waste of time and effort.

You have every proof of that in the pages of this very thread -and others about the subject- right here in bitcointalk. Just off the top of my head I believe the original owners of all the coins were 72 individuals and except for one most of them still own the bulk of the coins. Naturally distribution would be a bit better now, after 3 years, but ... If you are really interested, the information is on this very thread, for the most part.

Edit to add.- or in cached versions since now this thread is censored and more probably than not many inconvenient posts may have disappeared. It is common knowledge though in the crypto world. And, by the way, there was nothing claimed as scammy since it was up for sale, publicly, and available for peanuts to anyone interested. It just so happened that only those 72 people bought the lot.

That's hardly the point but yes, if you get to know the different versions of the system and depending of your usage of it, there are very significant differences between some of those, especially the most recent one. That was for illustrative purposes only though but since you bring it up maybe I should clarify it a bit more: If instead of calling it an asset-token-share, it would have been added to the set of tools already in NXT and called NXT 2.0, we will have exactly the same thing within just one name instead of 2? I hope the question is clearer now and easier to answer...

^^^^

I'll substitute "everyone" for "a lot of people" from now on then, since it makes such a difference to you. I'll keep using "everyone NEW", if you don't mind though, for that was, clearle, the purpose of the term in this instance.

Why would I start a new service that most coins in existence already have... just like I was led to believe here, NXT (reliably) had? Why would I be interested in doing anything at all for a project in which I am contemplating to or I am an investor when I know the immense majority of the coins in existence, and 99% of those being forged, belong to the same small group of people? That wouldn't be very smart on my part, would it?

Thank you for the suggestion but I prefer to limit my contributions to this forum and this forum only. In my experience (although I respect counter opinions) the more abundant the sources of the same knowledge the more confusing it becomes... which in the case of NXT, for it's own over-complexity, can be very daunting.

Although, logically, most people on these threads are interested in these developments with an eye on the NXT price (and dumping by the millions on new buyers, of course), I would like to understand a little bit more of what really it is going on here, with this new asset-to-become-token-to-become-stock-over-a-year-from-now that you guys call ARDOR and that, as far as I understand, is just NXT 2.0 in the same way that Windows 8's new version is called Windows 10. Please do correct me if I am wrong in this, so far.

If I am not (wrong), allow me to chapeau you for the scheme (win-win-win solution) in which a few people with a lot of down-and-out NXT coins (and I mean A LOT... and growing quickly since they collect the practical totality of new coins being forged) is being able to dump millions of coins for over triple the price it had a few weeks ago... a feat that wouldn't have been even remotely achieved without the invention of the asset/token. And no one will exactly complain since all the NXT holders, whether they keep it or dump it, will be very happy and grateful for the pumped price. Once again: chapeau. Amazingly smart.

And from very smart people, I expect more too, so the great selling of NXT 2.0 I believe is backed up by great features with a great future. But, as a layman, here is where I -and I am going to presume that most too-, get a bit lost. So I'd appreciate some explanations, please.

-- In layman's terms, what is a "child chain" and what exactly does it do ... beyond being a shorthand for the real thing and, consequently, faster in the transmission/recording of data. Specifically, give me three examples if you will, practical ones, of real-world use of a "child chain".

-- I understand that users of these "child chains" will have to pay for them. To who? and through/depending on what?

-- In what way, if any, are those "new" features listed in the OP, any different from the currently widely available so-called "smart contracts" and "decentralized markets"?

I would appreciate clear explanations and current times use case scenarios. I am not trying to be critical, just understand what is it that you are selling here that is not a new name for the otherwise usual development of the NXT project.

Additionally, I would be very interested in knowing many more details about the "more professionalized" new stage of the project. I know you are not deliberately being secretive about it but it would be nice to know much better the new core development team (like names and photos, as well as well deserved bragging rights for previous achievements). All of that would no doubt contribute to enhance the pumping effect this new stage has already brought. And that's what everyone wants, isn't it?

Thank you for the detailed explanation. And for solving the issue. What you seem to miss here is that nobody cares if it is a third party service. Until now, everyone thought, rightfully, that this was a tool offered by NXT and therefore NXT was responsible for its functioning. Similarly, no one cares if you guys make money or not on it (why should you?). The only thing people care about is that such an important tool works flawlessly ALL the time (or if it goes down it does for a minimal period of time). Hundreds of coins offer this same service and it is very rare -I have never seen it before- that a failure of this magnitude happens. It is especially alarming that it happens only days after the snapshot period started, when, logically, many NXT holders would have transferred their coins from the exchanges to MyNXT online wallet --as was advised right here on this thread. Such migration and any complications derived from it should have been foreseen in order to prevent any disruption of the service, if for nothing else, to avoid people getting alarmed. As it is, the faith of the people in the system has been shaken by this incident that reveals amateurism, lack of preparedness and, also, an intended justification of what has happened because "we don't make money on it", which is a very poor kind of attitude in general.

I hope many people will continue using the MyNXT wallet. I for one, will not.

Then, perhaps, since the service is offered in the website, someone should contract a reliable one instead of leaving it to amateurs. I mean, this gives an extremely poor technological look to the whole project, don't you think? We are talking something very, very, VERY basic here that every other coin, much below the standards of NXT, has been successfully offering for months if not years already.

 Still not working. Amazing, simply amazing.

No, idiot, that would've been me. And not just shitbay, but your BTER too. Just like this one... is Bob on board too?

No he hasn't left. He's still around and somehow trying to convince some people there's an actual use for this disaster of a coin project. The price has actually double recently because, supposedly, he is about to close deals with big companies that take "months" to come to fruition. Some, obviously, still believe in him and the project. As I posted all those months ago, it's an inevitable disaster that has cost money to those delusional initial investors and will continue costing money to those that believe there's a future in it.

One can only warn...