Does Bitcoin have any plans to have faster and still secure transactions? If not, I can't see it (or anything built on it) going anywhere.

Nxt has been stable for two weeks, all the while when bitcoin was heading to the floor (see the blue line tanking down steeper than 45 degrees?)... and Nxt is currently rising against bitcoin.







Version 1.3.0 was finally released yesterday, this has been holding up other features in Nxt. Expect more news in 4 weeks.

The comments in the article keep pointing to it relating to Bitcoin startups...


So Counterparty are claiming to have a majority in a minority of the market. And they don't think this might be misleading or not fairly presenting the bigger picture?  


The bigger picture being that out of the current top twenty crypto 2.0 assets, Counterparty makes up only 10% by market cap and 15% by number of assets. As opposed to Nxt that has 52% of market cap and 75% by number of assets...


Hmm...



"US Government: We are not bombing 100% of US soil."

I have strengthened my post in response to the "first implementation in Nxt?" above to make clear the credit you are due as being the inventor of AT.

I am personally grateful to you as one of my 'mentors' (willingly or not) that took me from crypto noob to not-so-crypto noob over the first 6 months or so at the start of the year. You always had time for my questioning, always dumbing down and rephrasing when needed  A lot of people are only just hearing "atomic cross chain transactions" but we have already been through a few rounds of description already for me to 'get it' (almost enough to put it in the glossary without fear of being wrong)  I am sad to see you go and hope in time there will be no lingering hard feelings between Nxt and your next projects.

I think it will be a slow burn to begin with but with it being implemented in other platforms, the user base could grow quickly.


I mentioned there was another Turing Complete implementation in Nxt:


https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg71681/#msg71681


Come-from-Beyond mentions that there is overlap between this and his Smart Contracts on the following page. This one would be hard to find if you didn't know it already existed, buried in a megathread.


So, Nxt's smart contract implementation:


i) Nxt AT (Turing Complete)
ii) Smart Contracts
iii) Community-checked Programmable Agreements (previously Semi-Automated Transactions)
iv) Nxt Tradebots (Turing Complete, previously named NxtCoinsCo)

No. This is an asset that holds other assets (like an investment fund) so can't really be 'abandoned'. It just tracks how the other assets are doing.

See: http://nxtreporting.com/?as=6932037131189568014

The asset description states that the holding account of jl777hodl is NXT-2AHU-UXZW-K9Q2-HENLW. Checking in this account...

http://nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-2AHU-UXZW-K9Q2-HENLW&c=USD

... it lists the 32 owned assets under 'My Assets' and the account is worth 45'426'145.36 NXT (or 4.54 NXT per asset). Depending on how you value the assets and your risk appetite, the current price of 3.75NXT could be seen attractive with a +20% upside to fair value. This assumes that the market agrees with your valuation.

It is all transparent if you follow the published info.

Ian has left NxtAt (hot off the press yesterday) presumably to implement AT in the first coin to meet the bounty. Vbecas and btc2nxt are developing NxtAT.


I don't usually acknowledge Bluemeanie but as he keeps intruding and adding nothing...


BM knows the state of AT, he follows nxtforum very closely. He is just trying to undermine it. He takes Nxt's positives and then tries to pillory them: Nxt itself > Jl777 > Supernet > Threatening Nxters with legal > Doxxing single mothers, trying to get them fired and now it looks like CIYAM is next.

I wouldn't recommend trying to enter a dialogue with him, he has a history of ignoring my posts and I haven't seen him answer a question yet. Or provide any evidence for anything he claims, working on the basis that "throw enough sh!t some of it will stick" rather than "this is my claim supported by evidence a, b, c...".

This is what he is trying to obfuscate > http://cointelegraph.com/news/112643/the-mystery-of-the-missing-1000000-nxt
BM acts as though it is an opinion piece but the blockchain doesn't lie and his promo messages are signed with his PGP signature. You can make up your own mind, everyone who has looked at the evidence is unanimous in their verdict.


Fortunately, this mud slinging tactic of his will only have an effect on those who don't do their own research. So you will be fine   I haven't made it onto his 'enemies' list yet but it is only a matter of time. After all, I have publicly disagreed with him

No it isn't Openbazaar. But it is the same concept and live as we speak. In lieu of an Openbazaar implementation you seek.

I agree, the raw blockchain data isn't sexy. It won't always be this way.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=757671.0


Some have made the mistake of mixing the subject with the infrastructure that supports it.

Applying this logic would lead to shutting highways, ports and airports as they are used by human traffickers and illegal immigrants, blocking the internet as they are used to spread terrorism and banning reality TV shows as that where annoying living memes are born.

Yes, I believe Nxt is the first to have a working product implemented (for historical accuracy, CIYAM is the inventor and made the first version of AT in C++ so that was first. Though I don't think it was ever 'in the wild' with public access. Nxt's implementation is in Java).

Look at the dates of the podcast, the OP and you'll see it has been in development for over 6 months. The testing from the last 3 months published in the link above. Soon it will be released for the public to play around with (and for more testing with people trying to break it  ).



The developers of Nxt AT are asking for bounties to implement AT in other coins so I imagine it will be similar to the Asset Exchange: Nxt will get the headstart but there will probably be others coming down the track*

The bonus of this is that you will be able to do "Atomic Cross Chain Transactions" between different coins that have AT implemented. This boils down to the AT acting as a trustless escrow, send your Nxt for another coin at a set price to the AT. If the other side doesn't send their side of the deal within x blocks, the AT will refund you. All decentralised and on two blockchains.

Or maybe the AT straddles both platforms with standing balances in both, so you would be trading directly with a algo driven robot who puts up the bids and asks   I'm not sure of the implementation they have in mind.


I don't see why Smart Contracts or "Community Agreed..." couldn't do this use case (though don't quote me!) but Nxt AT contracts are Turing Complete. And Turing Complete contracts is what got people wetting their pants about in Ethereum.


 *(Nxt Asset Exchange trade amounts to $2.2 Million USD in the last 30 days at current low exchange rates, I'm not aware of another decentralised exchange comes close to that. Daily trade volume on the Asset Exchange is reasonably correlated and regularly exceeds that on Coinmarketcap, as it does today. Source: http://nxtreporting.com/assetcap.php)

A good Nxt AT discussion (released on public testnet on the 15th Oct) is taking place here>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675182.0

...for anyone who wants to join in, once you get past the first inevitable fudsters  Please ignore them, this thread is meant for discussion of the Technology.

I realised there is another Turing Complete implementation in Nxt done by a third party developer.

It is for a specific subset of tasks and not meant to be as far reaching as Nxt AT AFAIK, I'll dig out the link...

I think I know what you mean. There has been some thought to the problem of malicious scripts in Nxt AT and I understand the devs believe that they can contain the threat. I don't know what is discussed behind the scenes/devchat but publicly they plan to:

I) limit the access the Nxt AT Account to a subset of the NXT APIs and;
II) each cycle of the Nxt AT contract has a cost in Nxt so it can only run until the account runs out of money. It can't run forever and bloat the blockchain, an attacker would have to keep buying and sending Nxt to the malicious AT to keep it attacking.


Interestingly, L8rre argues here >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/ats-with-fsm-based-dsl/msg30133/#msg30133

...that Turing Complete can't be Turing Complete as it can't calculate 1+Pi, it could only run forever and ever. Nxt AT above would be able to calculate this to as many decimal places as the Nxt in the account allowed. So is this really Turing Complete?   But I think Kushti clears up the definition later on down the thread (also note how Nxt forum tolerates clueless noobs like me, I learn a lot  ).

You are welcome  I have to say it is nice to have a civil discussion on BitcoinTrashTalk for a change.


You may also be interested in Smart Contracts by Come-from-Beyond >>> https://nxtforum.org/smart-contracts/express-your-wish-(smart-contracts)/

It's not Turing Complete but some devs argue that TC is OTT for most applications. This is a planned core-feature of Nxt but clashes with Nxt AT, which has created friction between the two projects.


Nxt also has a third implementation, "Community-checked Programmable Agreements" (catchy, yeah?  ), previously named Semi-Automated Transactions >>> https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/semi-automated-transactions/

Again, not Turing complete but the argument in there covers why. Too technical for me but you might like it.



Why have so many of the same implementation? My understanding is that Smart Contracts was always a planned Nxt feature. Nxt AT was started by a third party dev, not knowing about Smart Contracts as it was unannounced at the time so there is overlap. Kushti is a part time core dev and his project is done as a third party dev. Third party devs can build what they like so if they see value in it, who are we to judge? Whatever happens, it is all still exciting



TL:DR Nxt has three implementations of Smart Contracts in development

i) Nxt AT (Turing Complete)
ii) Smart Contracts
iii) Community-checked Programmable Agreements (previously Semi-Automated Transactions)

15 Oct. It has been in private testing for a couple of months, it will be on public testnet on the 15th Oct.


https://nxtforum.org/automated-transactions/information-of-the-at-project/msg113168/#msg113168

I would give you a +1 if I could for doing your own research

You might be interested in the machine code testing and results for Nxt AT: http://ciyam.org/nxt/

If you want more information on the innards, the best person to contact is btc2nxt at nxtforum.org. He is the one who most commonly gives updates in the thread you posted above.


Edit: Nevermind, I see you have already registered and asked questions

AFAIK, Ethereum offers a Turing complete language to create smart contracts. Google tells me Ethereum says Ethereum has 0 features, it is a platform to build on.

In this respect, Nxt Automated Transactions is Ethereum. Nxt has a working product in alpha and not only slideshows. And Nxt is also a platform to build on by third party developers (see the famous work of JL777 for proof).



Additionally,


I) Ethereum will use it's own custom scripting language. When it is released, maybe a couple dozen people will be able to use it and create contracts in Ethereum. Nxt AT is written in low level language (machine code) and CIYAM himself says in the podcast above that it will take very little to convert to C initially and then other languages as they progress.

So within a few weeks of release, there is likely to be tens of thousands of existing programmer that already have the skills needed to write smart contracts in Nxt AT.  


ii) Ethereum always have to be Turing Complete with its transactions, it has all the bells and whistles in every transaction. This has a computational cost. Nxt AT just has Turing Complete transactions to be processed when it is necessary.

Think of Ethereum as the big RV, you can go camping and it has everything you need but popping into town to pick up a few things from the shops is laborious and cumbersome.

Think of Nxt as a fast sports car and Nxt AT as a trailer. Nxt sports car can be used for day to day transactions (popping to the shops), then you just hitch the Nxt At trailer onto Nxt when you need to for more complex turing complete transactions (like going camping).

Nxt AT is designed to be the best of both worlds.

Here it from the horses mouth here: http://www.nxtcommunity.org/nxt-podcast/whats-nxt-automated-transactions-explained


*Trustless* is the key word.


From http://ciyam.org/nxt/nxt_at.html, here are 3 examples.

****
Use Case #1: Lottery

Create a "lottery" program which will pay out its balance to a "winner" automatically once per week.

To purchase a "ticket" a Nxt user would send X NXT to the "lottery AT account" (where some of this amount may
be needed to pay for running the AT). The "ticket" itself would be the hashed result of the ticket owner's id
(i.e. account #) added with the block id that occurs 1440 blocks *after* the purchase block (as the id of the
block that far ahread is understood to be unpredictable, however, this needs thorough mathematical analysis).

Use Case #2: Dormant Funds Transfer

Create a program that if not notified before a certain period of time will transfer its funds to one specific
account. The notification mechanism will be via an AM transaction and the content of the AM (if not empty) is
a new address to payout to.

Use Case #3: Project Crowdfunding Agent

Create a program that will at a certain time check if it has a balance greater than or equal to a target that
was hard-coded into it. If the required balance level has been reached then all funds will be then sent to an
account hard-coded into it. If the required balance has not been met then each tx sender will be refunded the
amount they sent (tx fees may also need to be considered).
***

Time will tell.


After 3 months of development, Nxt's answer to Ethereum will be on public testnet very soon.


The date is published if you know where to look.

Reserved