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1601  Economy / Securities / Re: I just considered the possibility that.... on: July 05, 2012, 03:23:23 PM
I'm not talking about PPT.A-E, but the countless other pass throughs that have popped up. I mean, even if Pirate wasn't a ponzi, any of the new ones could be

Just check on the blockchain where the money goes.

does not work with glbse
1602  Economy / Securities / Re: I know what Pirate's doing on: July 05, 2012, 03:21:13 PM

I'm hopefully about to land a career job myself which will allow me to gain access to enough capital in enough time to start something similar.


if you ever start it please let us know.
i am interested in investing....
1603  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is. on: July 05, 2012, 01:07:42 PM
The risk is worse on the Pro Pirate side. On the anti Pirate side, much less. Is this what you meant?

For a sane player to take the bet against me, the anti-pirate bond must be 27 times larger than the pro-pirate bond. This is what I meant.

Give it up. You just can't build a logic instrument on bullshit assumptions. Anything involving BS&T and a time-frame of one year or above inserts the fact that believers can multiply their money with a factor of roughly 33 instead of playing. Of course we can't beat that!

But I can.  Find a trusted escrow and Ill bet you anything you put in it.

If the bet will pay more than pirates bank I will put in too. I think it is silly for me to lose money cuz of trollz. These trolls should set something up where they pay out 7% until pirate defaults then they keep the money. If they default first well, then lulz...

+1
1604  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: I believe theses quotes should now kill BS&T. on: July 05, 2012, 09:07:23 AM
Anyone with any shred of decency or who even only tries to be ethical would not put a single penny into this.

wow.
i do consider me as a very ethical person. please dont insult me (or at least: give me a reasonable explanation why do you think that i am unethical).

This is a very reasonable request. I'll explain my position on this one.

It is very very likely that what we are talking about here is a ponzi scheme. I cannot say for certain, as there is no proof. But probabilities are damning.

Let's assume that you understand that this is likely a ponzi and wish to invest into a known ponzi scheme as a high risk/high reward investment. This is your position, is it not correct?

This means that you hope to profit at expense of victims of this ponzi scheme. At expense of naive people who are not capable to understand risks they take with such "investments" and have not received any professional advise on the matter. Nor they had those risks disclaimed to them by ponzi operators or exchanges involved in this. On each and every step of all of this there are numerous and clear violations of relevant laws.

Do you really think that in the real world thy make early ponzi investors to disgorge ill gotten profits in favor of victims because those ponzi "investments" were in any shape or form ethical?

Anyone claiming that investing in a ponzi while knowing that this is a ponzi or likelty a ponzi is in any shape of form ethical either has a very strange idea about ethics or just plain malicious.

Ponzi is not a victimless crime. Moreover it is an indisputable fact that MOST ponzi scheme "investors" are victims (eventually).

I honestly believe that the question is not whether early ponzi investors and more so promoters and apologists like you and all those operators of PPT's and even GLBSE are acting ethically. This one is clear.

I hope you are not going to argue that participating in and/or promoting a venture that is either a fraud or very likely a fraud (ponzi is a form of fraud) with intent to profit is Ethical.

The question is more about whether early ponzi investors and more so promoters and apologists like you and all those operators of PPT's and even GLBSE are malefactors.



ok, thank you for your explanation.

but: no. i do not think its a ponzi.
i think he operates a bitcoinica like dark exchange (of course i dont know).

and yes: if i would KNOW that its a ponzi you are right that participating in it is unethically.

the question for me is: is it unethical to invest in something which you dont really now (could be firearms drugs and so on - there are things which i consider worse than ponzis).

i thought very long about it and came to the conclusion that it is ok - because you never know for sure what your invested money is used for.

with your explanation bfl and "mysterios investor who crashed glbse mining market after bfl's announcement" are unethically too -> there are ALWAYS "victims" in any finance market or transaction. one wins and another one loses: thats the hole point of risk management.

i am all for educating finance-n00bs (i see myself as one).
make good explanations: whats a ponzi, howtos about risk management and money management. but thats enough.

1605  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: I believe theses quotes should now kill BS&T. on: July 05, 2012, 08:26:15 AM
just see it that way:

invest your btc for 14 weeks and it has doubled (dont reinvest your interest).
regardless what happens to pirate now: you'll win at least a little.

No!

Anyone with any appreciation for risk/reward of such "investment" will not put a single dime into this. Risk of complete loss of capital that is put into this now shall expect negative ROI on this "investment".

i see bitcoins as a hole as a very risky investment. pirate is a lot more risk.
whats your problem with investing in ultra-risky investments? they tend to give much more reward (if any)

Anyone with any shred of decency or who even only tries to be ethical would not put a single penny into this.

wow.
i do consider me as a very ethical person. please dont insult me (or at least: give me a reasonable explanation why do you think that i am unethical).

Anyone who knows about upcoming market moving events would not put a single dime into this.

now you tell me you know UPCOMING market moving events?
do you front-running? you can tell the future?
of course... if i would have the ability to look in the future i wouldn't invest in pirate...i would make my money otherwise Wink

btw. if you KNOW upcoming market moving events and dont share them: this is something i would call unethical.

Anyone who puts his money into this now or does not pull his money out of this now (or perhaps within 1-3 week period starting now) will most likely regret this decision.

Anyone who holds any of those PPT bonds and does not sell em rather very soon will regret this decision.

yes, maybe thats true.
thats always a possibility with very risky investments. even with btc this is still possible (but i dont hope so)

Anyone who wants to shut up people speaking up about this should really disclaim his PPT/Pirate/wtc holdings.

we already have MORE that enough threads about this... maybe its just to much?

Let's wait and see. Time will tell and this will happen rather sooner than many think it will.

Disclaimer: I own some BTC.


i do own btc too. and i am not fully invested with pirate.
1606  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: I believe theses quotes should now kill BS&T. on: July 05, 2012, 08:03:40 AM
To the people in the anti-pirate camp, these facts somehow prove pirate is running a ponzi. They say that it is simply not possible to earn 1% a day on a large investment. The truth is, its not possible for THEM to earn 1% a day on a large investment. To someone who knows what they're doing, and has a large number of bitcoins under their control, it would be relatively simple to make 1% a day - even if all you did was trade on Mt.Gox. This isn't the NYSE, where you have countless wealthy individuals and institutional players moving into and out of stocks, and where duties of disclosure apply. This is the wild west of bitcoin, where most 'traders' are kids with a video card and where the price can fluctuate more in a day than a conventional market would in a year. And people are honestly surprised at 1% a day?

Do you really believe in miracle of >3000%  annual returns trading some market?

Do you really believe in miracle of CONSISTENT 1% a day returns?

Do you really believe that, if this even possible, it makes any sense to leverage it by borrowing money to trade with at 3000% APR?

Have you ever traded anything?

How about a modicum of common sense?

Do you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome or just want more suckers to be sucked into this for personal gain or is it something else?



just see it that way:

invest your btc for 14 weeks and it has doubled (dont reinvest your interest).
regardless what happens to pirate now: you'll win at least a little.
1607  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation on: July 04, 2012, 08:13:19 PM
about forum PMs - please email the address. Getting too many messages and need them all in one place.

btw you didn't answered my mails:
7/1/2012 to bitcoin.reimburse@gmail.com
or
6/22/2012 to genjix@riseup.net

but thanks again that i got my first 50% btc a while ago...

EDIT: got an replay. thank you.
...removed email text
1608  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker on: July 04, 2012, 07:01:42 PM
I think this could be the last we'll see of ask walls before breaking $7.2. The correction was triggered by pirate's change of terms. When the bitcoinica payouts get going, it will continue the rally.

i thougth there were more btc than usd in bitconica?
i think it'll go down as soon as everybody got their btc/usd back.
1609  Economy / Securities / Re: BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving? on: July 04, 2012, 02:13:28 PM
Let me remind you that none of you (including me) have no idea how Pirate is actually making money.

I beg to differ, some of us it seems have a very good idea about that, probabilistically at least.


and others know exactly what he is doing...

thats what he said! Wink
but i do believe he is honest... i have my own idea of his "operation".
1610  Economy / Securities / Re: BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving? on: July 04, 2012, 01:54:41 PM
Premised that I am exposed to pirate both by PPT.Xs and bitcoinmax for about 50% of my BTC capital (the other 50 in mining companies -where I already lost nicely with their valuation -and before that I lost with Goat's "bank"), I too can figure that even if is not a ponzi, 3000%+ yoy sounds mathematically not sustainable in the medium to long term. However, this says nothing about what will happen at some point about the return OF the capital of lenders. Pirate might disappear with the loot, or he could return the capital (in full or in part) to his lenders and say game over.
Since I don't know, and I am aware that I might lose my investment, for the moment I keep hoping that the party keeps going playing my BTC (which are play money, nothing that could change my life) with pirate knowing that it must be high risk.
I lost more than I can lose now when I bought BTCs at 20$ each, and then buying radeons not considering well electricity costs and the speed of difficulty increase, so one can screw up investing in anything -even in things sounding much more safe and sound.

same here ,)
50% of my btc invested in pirate - and they will stay there (but i moved from TYGGR-P to bitcoinmax)

and yes: i also did loose MUCH more when i bought at 26$ and my energy cost where "up through the roof" (but i stopped mining a while ago; waiting for my jalapeno to start again).

you all should only invest play money in btc. in the end of the day it could be that btc are only woth 0.01$ again (even without pirate)

btw. i think pirate is one of the reasons bitcoin prices are a little higher again. more people keep their btc to invest with pirate - instead of selling them.
1611  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: https://bitdaytrade.com Bitcoin Gold & Commodities margin trading on: July 04, 2012, 06:40:02 AM
Hi, I sent an E-Mail to you and I still have not received a response to the problem. 

It says this when I try to click on "deposit"

FATAL: Unable to connect to http://bitcoinrebate:mMhl8P8b3Bc@176.58.108.51:8332/ in /var/www/bitdaytrade.com/app/jsonRPCClient.php on line 140

LOL
sounds like a big fail to display bitcoin-rpc-password Cheesy
1612  Economy / Gambling / Re: Earn coins on Bitcoinrebate.com - a blend of arbitraging and penny auction game on: July 02, 2012, 12:23:48 PM
very nice site ,)
1613  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation on: July 01, 2012, 07:38:46 PM
@Transisto

Thank you very much for this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89782.new;topicseen#new

If possible i would like to see a list of claims and payout percentage. community style (for anon reases maybe bitconica username only) Wink
1614  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Need ASIC-proof Alt coin? on: July 01, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
Why would we want an ASIC proof coin???

So that it can be secured with commonly purchased computer hardware instead of highly specialized technology available to only the few/rich. Essentially to keep the learning/hardware curve of "mining" low and "community" surrounding it large.

The BitForce Jalapeno ASIC is being sold for $149. A decent CPU will cost you much more than that. So it's in easy reach as a entry level miner for everyone.

So I'll ask again "Why would we want an ASIC proof coin???"



big gpu farms would have a chance to find a buyer then?
1615  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation on: June 28, 2012, 02:26:19 PM
please STFU about the police, what do you want them to do? magically fixing the database, so that everyone can get there money? shoot genjix?


they can do absolutely nothing in this case, except messing things more up. so please STFU.

You STFU.   It's important for people to understand this was an inside job.

why is it important?

personally i dont care; i just want to have my money back (btw this thread is called "Payout update" not "find the hacker").

It's important because people are talking about trusting these scammers a second time.  And btw, the thread is called security investigation as well.

Your post is so incredibly selfish... you don't care how many coins they steal from others as long as YOU are made whole.  Pathetic.

i am not selfish. i just dont like playing police.
and: if everybody gets back their money i dont see a problem with trusting them again.

just keep in mind their information policy Wink
1616  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: https://bitdaytrade.com Bitcoin Gold & Commodities margin trading on: June 28, 2012, 02:09:52 PM
So, You canceled my trades and took my gains... Now I can't get back my bitcoin... What do I need to do to get my funds out?

my withdraw took 1 day to get processed. i guess they are doing it manually.
1617  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: STOP selling bitcoin on MtGox, b/c there's virtually no way to withdraw it on: June 28, 2012, 08:29:46 AM
@MtGox, make withdrawals clear faster and I'm yours for the rest of my life. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for your support! As I have stated, we are working on faster Deposit and withdrawals and reduces fees. However you will need to own a "Trusted Account" to be able to use this new feature.

btw. if you want me back as a customer just provide a way to check my addresses for coins which you think are tainted (before i send you the coins of course).

i am really afraid of getting my account locked (and no: i did not rob anybody in my hole life).
1618  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: https://bitdaytrade.com Bitcoin Gold & Commodities margin trading on: June 27, 2012, 08:06:32 AM
hi,

i like your site and trying now with 0.5btc.

PUTS do work very well, but i cant open a LONG Position.
it shows (very shortly) in the "Your queued positions"-list but never gets to a position.

btw: if i have a short position and open a long one. will the short position stay or is it "eaten by" the long one.

regards
flower
1619  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: June 27, 2012, 06:21:19 AM
one question: bfl states jalapeno runs on usb power.
did they say usb2 or usb3?

I pretty sure it will need USB5 ...

does not compute Wink
1620  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: June 27, 2012, 06:09:32 AM
one question: bfl states jalapeno runs on usb power.
did they say usb2 or usb3?
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