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2061  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 30, 2012, 01:22:05 AM
Some people have lost money here.
Yes and you are not the only one or an arbiter of what action should be taken.
Never did I claim that I was. If you are here to ask questions, that is completely reasonable. But please, do not be blunt enough to refuse changing your standpoint.

I would like to ask you: does there exist an answer to those questions that will actually change your mind? If there isn't, why do you ask them?
2062  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 30, 2012, 12:47:55 AM
Even though as a community we can determine Chen Jianhai to be the hacker,
No we cannot. You have provided no evidence of this person's existence at all, let alone their actions/implication in this theft. I invite you to do so now.

he hasn't been proven guilty legally yet. That will only happen when he faces a criminal charge.
He hasn't been proven to exist or guilty in any way either. You have invented this person to deflect blame from yourself. Again, I invite you to prove me wrong.

So intuitively I feel that the more the community criticizes me, the more I deserve to actually take possession of the funds and run away (because they penalized me like I did steal the funds, and I didn't).
This is a pathetic attempt of blackmail and to silence your critics without justification, with the retained promise of refund.

I believe so. He handled this matter very professionally and I'm going to continue recovering the fiat money from the hackers.
Well what a wonderful white knight you are. Please, tell me how you, a 14/15/16/17 year old:
1. Were able to gain audience with a prolific and dangerous criminal.
2. Prove his guilt and gain a confession.
3. Strip him of his latest theft.
4. Gain permission to publish his name and incriminate him publicly.
5. Still be able to walk.

I'm just going to comment here to say "Yes, this really is our attorney at BitInstant, and he is a trustworthy guy".... any creditors should feel free to call up his firm at Engage Legal if they have any concerns.
Please provide contact details for this firm and the specific people involved. Also please tell us how much of the recovered funds will be used to pay for whatever legal services have been contrahttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Texas_FM_2062.svg/384px-Texas_FM_2062.svg.pngcted.


BB.
Will you cut it out? Some people have lost money here. We can deal with the "whodidit" thing later. This isn't helping anything.
2063  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 11:50:24 PM
I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

I'm just going to comment here to say "Yes, this really is our attorney at BitInstant, and he is a trustworthy guy".

Either Patrick, myself or Charlie will post here in public once the funds have been turned over to the appropriate entity, but for now they are in safe hands with a licensed attorney (Patrick) and any creditors should feel free to call up his firm at Engage Legal if they have any concerns.

I believe so. He handled this matter very professionally and I'm going to continue recovering the fiat money from the hackers.
Do you know the current state of the funds frozen at aurumxchange?
2064  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 11:46:38 PM
It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

Occam's Razor says that

Anyone using that as a postulate in a theorem clearly doesn't actually 'get' Occam's Razor.

Occam's Razor from wiki:

Quote
Overview

The principle is often incorrectly summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one." In practice, the application of the principle often shifts the burden of proof in a discussion.[a] The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power. The simplest available theory need not be most accurate. Philosophers point out also that the exact meaning of simplest may be nuanced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Occam's Razor states that one should proceed assuming the simpler explanation, not that the simpler explanation is correct. And in this case, the more complex explanation has better explanatory power: it explains why the BTC were sold.
2065  Other / Off-topic / Re: Let's Count to 21 Million with Images on: July 29, 2012, 11:43:32 PM

Let's pick up the pace, only 20997938 images to go!
2066  Other / Off-topic / Re: Let's Count to 21 Million with Images on: July 29, 2012, 09:58:49 PM
2067  Economy / Speculation / Re: Volatility Index on: July 29, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
The average volatility does not change. It is computed from two years of Bitcoin Mt. Gox USD data.
Is volatility calculated as an absolute number, or as a percentage of the current average price?  If it's an absolute number like $0.75, then as the price rises the calculated volatility will go down. Which looks like what's happening in your graph, but perhaps that's an artifact.  If it's not already, it should be normalized by using a %, which might be why s3052's chart is different from yours.

Also, just out of curiosity, what is the 2-year average volatility?

The volatility is measured by:

Code:
abs(log(day2/day1))

This normalized based not only on %, but also on direction.

The average volatility is 0.0038-0.0167. This covers the 34% of data points that are considered "average".
2068  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 07:32:01 PM
There is more than a single person behind the user zhoutong. There is a ghost writer following the instructions of another person which dictates every answer. A single person could not express such astonishing English skills so well garnished with technical details.

There is enough contradictions in every response from zhoutong which indicates the information is consistently fictional.

Not one single character or description is factual.

A script is in place and the user zhoutong is only following the lines.
Please, be rational.

It seems that either people claim Zhou Tong and Chen Jinghai are one person, or that people claim Zhou Tong is more than one person. Wouldn't it be rational to claim that Zhou Tong is one person, and Chen Jinghai is another?
2069  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 04:42:21 PM
Am I the only one who considers it absurd?
No. I also think that someone else was involved. It's all a big lie, (including the charges against Zhou). It is unclear what the purpose of the conspirators. Send an investigation on the wrong track? Get rid of those who may know too much? Anything else?

 I think they did not think that will go that far. Now decided to return back the clock? Operation "save bitkoin" succeed, but it became difficult to return the money (greed? Disagreement in the team? Betrayal member? What else?) I think, is guilty of a very respected member, and the whole team wants to hide it .. .just the assumption  Undecided...
Notice how aurumxchange froze the funds. Where do these funds go? If aurumxchange doesn't turn them in, who makes a profit?
2070  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 04:36:30 PM
You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.

This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

Um as far I as know Zhou declared that he leaves the bitcoin world... Which makes the above statement irrelevant.


Here his announcement, when he declares "I'll try to keep my gold bitcoin". You see no where he says he will keep bitcoins, more like I will only keep the gold one.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0
He has stated multiple times that he has savings in BTC. This implies he still considers them valuable. So, why would he sell them? He's not stupid enough to blow his cover that way if he was the thief.
2071  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 04:30:23 PM
Exactly. The thief must have been someone who was not interested in Bitcoin. Zhou is likely not that person.

Fall of bitcoinica won't the fall of bitcoin. The market didn't even pay attention.



If Zhou is innocent the court will clear him.
You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.

This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
2072  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 04:17:21 PM
Really seems more credible that someone tries to charge 40k dollars without being traced, also using an email account prior use, to make matters worse this email is directly linked to your account mtgox and with itself. Am I the only one who considers it absurd? In addition already having 40k bitcoins in his hand risk free.

Zhou has done more to recover our funds that Bitcoinica, I still have not seen a cent of them, have not made ​​any progress in the investigation of first hack and now are guided by a track, far from a track, is a rivulet of shit direct at the foot of zhou
Exactly. The thief must have been someone who was not interested in Bitcoin. Zhou is likely not that person.
2073  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Weekend Dip Myth on: July 29, 2012, 03:46:17 PM
6-hourly, from Mon-Sun:

Interesting, apart from the weekend overall down, I would say the Wednesday first 12h up is the most significant one (16weeks and 18weeks up).  How much weeks of data do you actually use for those charts?

They are computed from all of Mt. Gox USD history. "Boring" data points, that fit into almost no movement (i.e. between 33rd and 67th percentiles), are excluded from calculation.
2074  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 04:21:34 AM
This is why I don't believe Zhou.

Zhou claimed:

That his business associate stole his password when he signed up on a website.
That his business associate had access to the source code prior to anyone else.
That his business associate knew who was Chris Heaslip!
That his business associate quickly decides to return funds when confronted!

Now replace the business associate with Zhou.. And it makes a lot of sense.

He had access to the email, which he havent used in a while.
Knew the password for lastpass and the source code.
Knew all the people in bitcoinica.
And of course had access to the stolen funds.


This is the evidence just from Zhou, not aurumxchange.
It would also make a lot of sense if you replace aurumxchange with Zhou.

Bitcoinica was a mass-marketing ploy. They are the same identity: notice how Bitcoinica offered aurumxchange as a service. Zhou/aurumxchange decided to initiate a mass-marketing campaign, and started Bitcoinica. After bootstrapping on Intersango's fame, aurumxchange became increasingly frustrated at the Consultancy's control, preferring to further advance aurumxchange's recognition. The Rackspace "hack" was initiated to regain control over Bitcoinica, and to create commotion. After the Consultancy refused to relinquish control, Bitcoinica was written off. Aurumxchange began contemplating the best time to begin mass-marketing with the remnants of it. Zhou/aurumxchange then decided to transfer a large amount of claimed funds, claiming theft. As Zhou's identity was written off along with Bitcoinica, aurumxchange continued arguing to gain exposure.
2075  Economy / Speculation / Re: Volatility Index on: July 29, 2012, 03:54:43 AM
So right now, according to your chart we areon the index value of about -5, in respect to the past 30-day period, which means the volatility has gone down by 5% compared to the latest 30-day-average??
The volatility index is measured in days, not percentages. I forgot to include the unit in the y-axis. It effectively measures how many days in the 30-day period have been above average in volatility and subtracts the number of days that have been below average in volatility.

So, if it stays constant at a positive value (a horizontal line in your plot), the volatility is getting higher and higher?
Horizontal lines are not very likely because of the way the plot is made, but they do represent no change in volatility. The value is irrelevant except as a relative measure of volatility: 0 is Bitcoin's average volatility, -30 is far below average volatility, and 30 is far above average volatility.
Is this correct: if the index is 6, there have been 18 days with above-average volatility in the past 30 days? Now, if we keep moving the 30-day window, and the index remains constant at 6, this means that the average volatility keeps increasing (since index remains positive), correct? Just making sure I am interpretting the graph correctly. Horizontal line would represent the constant index, not the constant volatility?
The average volatility does not change. It is computed from two years of Bitcoin Mt. Gox USD data.
2076  Other / Off-topic / Re: Let's Count to 21 Million with Images on: July 29, 2012, 03:38:15 AM

I still remember the days when road signs were the norm.
2077  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 02:55:13 AM
I'm still not sure why everyone seems to believe Zhou stole the funds. At this point, it's becoming increasingly obvious that he didn't.

Really? He found a hacker, talked to him and got funds back? From a multimillionaire?

If that guy was real, it would be impossible to prove that he stole money. IMPOSSIBLE. Nice story that Zhou registered his email account at that guy online website?

LOL!


dree12 and rarity are either sock puppets, or complete lunatics... Asking for a round of applause for Zhou ... LOL ... I felt like Alice going the rabbit hole reading that.
Sure, call me a sock-puppet. Ignore the fact that I registered a year ago, have almost a thousand posts, and am generally well-established in this community.

This lack of professionalism is appalling. From individuals on Bitcoin Talk, it may be expected. But you, you are representing a company. Please, get a new PR! Baseless accusations of sock-puppetry and mental instability are not very effective advertising techniques.
2078  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What is environmentalism, really? on: July 29, 2012, 02:48:34 AM
I'm of the opinion that job losses cannot result from doing something, and the government simply uses it as an excuse to continue its useless propaganda campaign. We don't need a government or a Greenpeace to run the green movement, and I oppose both parties. I believe that the only Green movement that can succeed is the collective cooperation of individuals, not the fascist regulations or harmful acts of terrorism. The true Green movement involves people who care, not organizations concerned more about self-preservation and conflict.

I think you're largely wrong here. Yes, it's true that initiative at the individual level is important, but I'd say you're largely unaware of just how successful government programs have been. Most likely, you're confusing your perception of environmentalism with environmentalism in practice.
I don't oppose government programs, no, not at all. Governments and organizations like Solar Energy International are crucial leaders in environmental change. But the government, one must admit, is not fully focused on environmentalism; after all, the richest party sponsors happen to be oil companies. Its regulations tend to hurt; they secretly drive alternative energy prices up by creating monopolies. Greenpeace has the opposite problem: they tend to focus on extremist campaigns that damage the reputation of the environmentalism.

I believe in societal environmentalism, and that involves action by people who care, through the collective cooperation of individuals. This can, of course, be bolstered by properly-run campaigns, not by parties interested more in self-preservation.

This thread arose out of a discussion between TheBitcoinChemist and myself. It's so we can continue our discussion, with the participation of others, regarding what it means to be green, how people perceive environmentalism, what the benefits of it are, how it should be implemented, whether it's important, why it fails or succeeds, the character of those who embrace it or call it foolishness, and the science behind it.

I could begin by explaining what the point of contention between TheBitcoinChemist and me was, but I'd like to get a fresh start. I'll let BitcoinChemist begin, unless I choose to write a second post before he gets to it. Also, anybody else can jump in right now if they wish.

Environmentalism is simply a ploy to destroy industrial capitalism, communism failed so they try something else.
There is no ploy to destroy industrial capitalism. In fact, a large portion of environmentalism requires "industrial capitalism": alternative energy, sustainable housing, etc.
2079  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack on: July 29, 2012, 02:39:22 AM
I'm still not sure why everyone seems to believe Zhou stole the funds. At this point, it's becoming increasingly obvious that he didn't.

Really? He found a hacker, talked to him and got funds back? From a multimillionaire?

If that guy was real, it would be impossible to prove that he stole money. IMPOSSIBLE. Nice story that Zhou registered his email account at that guy online website?

LOL!

A multimillionaire would rather return funds than get sentenced to prison and lose his multimillionaire status.

If you consider that impossible, why not reflect on Zhou's possible motives for stealing the money? The aurumxchange side contends that he would be dumb enough to steal the money, transfer the USD to another service, and try to sell the BTC for USD as quick as possible: the next day. I find this story harder to believe than the one involving the relic collector.

I'm still not sure why everyone seems to believe Zhou stole the funds. At this point, it's becoming increasingly obvious that he didn't.

Increasingly obvious?   How so exactly?    For the record I didn't have funds in Bitcoinica (I wasn't much of a fan from the start) so I have no horse in this race and I'd like to think I can approach it objectively, but I really don't see how Zhou is any less likely to be behind all this than he was from the start.    There's certainly no new evidence that would suggest otherwise.  Sure there's this whole mystery Chen fella, but right now he's just a phantom.  There's no evidence whatsoever to show that he was behind it, or even exists.
Aurumxchange has failed to produce any new evidence, resorting to points that support Zhou's case. Patrick Murck has become involved.
2080  Economy / Speculation / Re: Volatility Index on: July 29, 2012, 02:33:32 AM
So right now, according to your chart we areon the index value of about -5, in respect to the past 30-day period, which means the volatility has gone down by 5% compared to the latest 30-day-average??
The volatility index is measured in days, not percentages. I forgot to include the unit in the y-axis. It effectively measures how many days in the 30-day period have been above average in volatility and subtracts the number of days that have been below average in volatility.

So, if it stays constant at a positive value (a horizontal line in your plot), the volatility is getting higher and higher?
Horizontal lines are not very likely because of the way the plot is made, but they do represent no change in volatility. The value is irrelevant except as a relative measure of volatility: 0 is Bitcoin's average volatility, -30 is far below average volatility, and 30 is far above average volatility.
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