Wow this is sad  It's unfortunate, but it is their site, and they must be doing something right. As we and bitcoin build credibility people will talk, they just weren't going to let us take a shortcut. Pocket Fives did the same thing. I even got a PM saying that talking about Bitcoin was not allowed, this was almost a year ago though. |
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I've made a thread on 2+2, they remove them unless you pay a fairly large amount in advertising fees. Some of my posts have been removed from other generic bitcoin threads and some stay.
If other people really want to talk about it over there I'm sure something will stick eventually, so please try. And point us to it.
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One may claim that I'm rehashing the ole what-is-Bitcoin elevator pitch, but I beg to differ. The following quote is of the last paragraph found here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carminegallo/2012/07/17/how-to-pitch-anything-in-15-seconds/I cannot emphasize enough how well this works. And I’ve seen it work for extremely complicated products and concepts. In fact the more complex your idea, the more important it is to create a Message Map. You need to pitch your story simply, clearly, and concisely. The message map is your winning ticket. The linked article is a relatively quick read, and would need to be read in its entirety to fully appreciate its approach and participate in this thread. Its author, Carmine Gallo, a Forbes contributor, espouses how to pitch anything in 15 seconds using a Message Map. An accompanying video is also available, basically outlining everything mention in the penned article. The goal of this thread is to create such a 15 second pitch for Bitcoin via message mapping, crowdsourcing this endeavor with members herein. ~Bruno~ Is it wrong that I find it hilarious that it takes the guy 4 minutes and 35 seconds to explain why a 15 second pitch is valuable?  Is it further wrong to believe the guy has no concept of time and may be in the process for the past few months publishing a magazine?  I'm enjoying the discussion to date. Fine work, all. ~Bruno~ Haha, that too, maybe he thought it was only 15 seconds. |
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One may claim that I'm rehashing the ole what-is-Bitcoin elevator pitch, but I beg to differ. The following quote is of the last paragraph found here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carminegallo/2012/07/17/how-to-pitch-anything-in-15-seconds/I cannot emphasize enough how well this works. And I’ve seen it work for extremely complicated products and concepts. In fact the more complex your idea, the more important it is to create a Message Map. You need to pitch your story simply, clearly, and concisely. The message map is your winning ticket. The linked article is a relatively quick read, and would need to be read in its entirety to fully appreciate its approach and participate in this thread. Its author, Carmine Gallo, a Forbes contributor, espouses how to pitch anything in 15 seconds using a Message Map. An accompanying video is also available, basically outlining everything mention in the penned article. The goal of this thread is to create such a 15 second pitch for Bitcoin via message mapping, crowdsourcing this endeavor with members herein. ~Bruno~ Is it wrong that I find it hilarious that it takes the guy 4 minutes and 35 seconds to explain why a 15 second pitch is valuable? Lol me too. Maybe it was proving his point though, I didn't quite turn it off at 15 seconds, but I think I would have still gotten the point. |
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Soooo awesome.
And, finally, the main business-case for Bitcoin has been vindicated...
"Because Bitcoin transfer fees are dramatically lower than those of conventional systems, we are offering a 3% discount in all our prices when payed in Bitcoin."
^ get ready to see that on most online retailers within a couple years (this would double the profit margin of a company like Amazon, btw).
Not passing the savings on would double their margin right? Passing it on would increase sales by some unknown amount. |
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We're still in 'early adopter' phase and a high fraction of people who join now will be interested in the tech and details of bitcoin. But later on a vanishing fraction will be able or willing to understand that stuff. It will be known as magic internet money when it proliferates.
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Has doublespend ever been executed successfully, even as an excercise?
I might remember wrong, but I think someone wrote a paper and was able to do it with low probability in favorable conditions (maybe poorly connected target node or something). |
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It probably takes about an hour to two hours to get 9 confirmations, which tends to be the normal amount required to verify a transaction by various websites. If you trust the person you can even allow 0 confirmations, or wait a while for a single confirmation (up to half an hour in my experience, it seems like the first one takes the longest).
9? Never seen that. |
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Maybe the anonymity aspect is oversold, but come on, what do people think? Is being near bitcoin somehow going to change the nature of dollars and dollar sellers?
I'm sitting here staring at my bitcoin wallet but my mother just walked in and I think she still recognizes me???
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Was even worse for me during the night.
A lot of people were having probs
Sorry about this, I've gotten a few complaints. I'm looking into it. |
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A confirmation takes an average of 10 minutes.
If you are doing business with someone you know for less than a life changing amount of money there is nothing to worry about.
If you really need to know it will be done immediately use a system with internal transfers.
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If you look in the history on the browser you used, you should be able to see where you were immediately before you visited the scam site.
Nope portable firefox Hmm, were you browsing to new bitcoin sites around that time or ones you visit often? How do you find bitcoin sites? googling or directories? |
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Thanks for your replies. I find your comments very insightful, but I fear I have accidentally changed the original subject (the usefulness of building an ATM Bitcoin dispenser).
So, I agree with you that there are inconvenients (more or less frequent, depending on the person, I accept that) with traditional banking that Bitcoin aims to address (and I really hope it will). But I am still not sure of the answer to the following question:
- Will people use a Bitcoin ATM, other than tech-savvy people? (if placed properly?)
- What will be the reasons that will lead a 'common' person, not particularly tech-savvy (the so called "average Joe") to change some EUR into BTC, _today_? Maybe publish a list of sites accepting Bitcoin in the ATM? And what would be the different than paying with euros in another site?
- What would be the slogan for those people, and not empthy retoric as "Freedom for the people", or "Forget the banks" etc. Something like "Your money more secure", "Easier to use money", "More powerful money", "More stable money", but true (at this time).
- I think that the deployment of ATMs should be complemented by some physical merchants (affiliates) accepting it in the neighbourhood. In this way people will see the sign "Accepting Bitcoins", and when find the ATM for the first time, they will wonder what's all this about. But, how to convince merchants to use Bitcoin, if they need to pay taxes in euros? Their reaction would be the same as if I proposed to accept Swiss francs (and I think they would probably accept Swiss francs rather than Bitcoins).
I don't have any trouble getting dollars for my coins, but I would prefer local cash via atm if it gave me close to the market rate. Like nearly every bitcoin innovation ATMs will proliferate when there is enough demand to make it profitable for someone and then it will increase the usefulness and thus the demand for bitcoins which will push some other imagined bitcoin projects into existence. I don't expect many regular merchants in physical stores to be accepting bitcoin any time soon. The ones who do are in it for what you call empty rhetoric. Which also happens to be why I work for bitcoin, transact with bitcoin and save in bitcoin. |
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4. Obviously 3% doesn't stop much trade, but 3% is worth 3%.
My point is that when Bitcoin has good (developed) escrow services, transactions will also have a cost.
Paying 3% still leaves the merchant with the risk of chargeback. No one else is even selling riskless payment to merchants online. It's very likely that when both ways are widely available different situations will use different methods. Right now everything is being crammed into one setup - customer can yank back money and merchant has to collect info and still take risk. Doesn't it seem a little bit odd that the best on offer for online payments is to hand over the exact info that someone would need to charge your card? It's a really bad system, but paying online is so valuable that we do it even though it costs billions paid to thieves. |
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I was talking to someone about this the other day, (scarcity of supply built into the system) and said "maybe one day we'll look at someone buying a WHOLE bitcoin as the luckiest bastard on the planet."
Rather, one day it will not be said "buy a bitcoin". What would you buy it with? |
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2. Six billion people live too far from me for me to hand them cash. Mail is not so good. Plus I don't likely have the brand of cash they want.
I don't think average Joe needs to send cash to people in the antipodes. Maybe once in his life, and he won't mind paying some fees. And people who do these transactions often are (again) not the people who would casually buy BTC in an ATM.
Average Joe doesn't do it because it's been stupidly hard until Bitcoin. I recently paid a guy in AUS for a consult. It was only incidental that I even knew where he was. This is like saying "Airplanes. pffft, how many people actually need to cross the ocean?". Uh, a lot more once there is a reasonable way to do it. Bitcoin opens so so many possibilities. |
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You talk about __trust__ merchants... Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin not to trust anybody?
No. Bitcoin solves one (very general) trust related problem. You don't have to trust or even know who is paying you. That's all. |
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3. Millions if not billions of people break laws because laws are terrible around the world.
I completely agree. So I modify my question adding that "people in developed, democratic countries".
I'm in a so called 'developed democratic country' and often find myself needing to violate laws. Beyond conscious violation I couldn't tell you how many laws and regulations there are (federal, state, or the county/city I happen to be in) let alone what they are and what the penalties are for violating them or which ones are actually enforced and which are forgotten (or which of the forgotten will be remembered again when convenient). On top of that I can't control or predict when the laws and enforcement will change. |
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So... is anyone else attempting to crack the private key?
Lol HAHA, sure. Maybe if we pool together a million worth of new ASICS and spend the next thousand years on it, we may have a 1% chance at it. ;p *not actual odds. There are people that know the math on it, and I am NOT one of them* But mayyyyybe the key is the 40th SHA256 of "I'm a pirate 200 years too late!" |
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WooHoo!
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