Are you saying its only theft if the victim complains? i.e. it's not theft when you take it (or announce that you're going to take it) - only when they notice and complain? How does complaining change whether the act itself was right or not?
If your point is that there AREN'T customers (not the right word - but who cares) then get your calculator out. Usagi said it + CPA owned 70% or so of BMF shares. Type in 100. Subtract 70 from it. Wow - the result is greater than zero! That means there ARE shareholders other than CPA/usagi.
Where is the evidence? Where are the shareholders claiming they have been defrauded? |
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It's also the easiest one to prove - as all the facts in it have already been admitted by usagi (basically ALL my evidence is usagi's own posts - plus the presence on blockchain of premiums but no insurance payout). And the (now deleted) posts right before GLBSE shut down (like same day) had reached the point where usagi was admitting liability but arguing against BMF enforcing it as it would hurt CPA. Where are the victims of this fraud? |
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So, where is the evidence which proves that Usagi is not willing to pay back his creditors?
Where are the customers complaining that they did not received what was promised?
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For other examples of logical fallacy look (if you can still find them quoted - as most originals were deleted) at usagi's various statements over the past months that go along the lines of "I hold/control a majority of shares so I can do what I want" - making the error of believing that one factor in determining ability to act (number of shares in favour) totally negates all others (e.g. fiduciary duty, avoiding conflict of interest etc).
So, you certainly have the contract which specifies Usagi's 'fiduciary duty' to avoid 'conflict of interest' with the best of his 'ability'. Where is? |
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Usagi already said "CPA has ceased to exist"
Why are you arguing about semantics ?
That is not the definition of bankrupt: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bankrupt?q=bankruptDefinition of bankrupt
adjective
1 (of a person or organization) declared in law as unable to pay their debts
2 completely lacking in a particular good quality
noun
a person judged by a court to be insolvent, whose property is taken and disposed of for the benefit of their creditors. Did Usagi declared insolvency? There are evidence which indicates that he is not able to pay back the CPA debt? |
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He said he was boxing up assets and paying out one creditor over another. Are you saying usagi was making a false statement.
I am asking for evidence which proves that Usagi enterprise is bankrupt. |
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Observation: 'Usagi is unable to provide proper accounting.'
Again: learn to read. I didn't say usagi is unable to provide proper accounting. I said "... if usagi doesn't provide proper accounting". Learn to read. I didn't say that it proves, but that it is reasonable to assume if usagi doesn't provide proper accounting. The rest of your argument is unclear. Feel free to explain what your point is. Nice strawman you made there though.
Exactly, augustocroppo, you may also want to read some more about strawman and other logical fallacies while your at it. Still, you did not presented any evidence as I have required. I am not interested in logical fallacies. Whatever pretension you have, your assumption does not prove that Usagi is defrauding his investors. |
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The observation here isn't that usagi didn't provide proper accounting. The observation is that usagi stated it was going to preferentially give itself BTC and other people shares. Nice strawman you made there though.
Wrong. I am verifying if deeplink's observation is evidence to support kjj's original proposition. Therefore my argument remains. By the way, nice strawman you made there though. |
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The evidence is in the verifiable fact that preferential payment in case of a bankrupt company is a fraudulent crime. A observation which is compatible with other plausible state of affair is not evidence for a proposition. Observation: 'Usagi is unable to provide proper accounting.' Plausible state of affair: 'Preferential payment in case of a bankrupt company is a fraudulent crime.' Proposition: 'What you said you were doing was the textbook definition of a crime, namely fraud. It is pretty much the definition, actually. In the real world it is a crime as described above.' https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.msg1236780#msg1236780http://human-brain.org/evidence.htmlWhat is "evidence"
An observation of compatible state of affair
When should an observation be regarded as evidence for a proposition?
(...)
Even though the logic is obvious, there is a strong tendency to ignore the second condition above. It is quite common for people to regard as evidence for some proposition an observation which is compatible with many other plausible states of affairs. In some cases, they justify it by considering only restricted set of the other plausible states of affairs (I call this the "Misanalyzing the 'Null Hypothesis'" error in Reasoning errors). In other cases, they don't bother to justify it at all, and seem to do it simply because they like the proposition, and hence accept automatically the observation as evidence (implicitly doing the "conclusion-validation" error, Reasoning errors). Learn to read. I didn't say that it proves, but that it is reasonable to assume if usagi doesn't provide proper accounting. |
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The lack of proper accounting and a ledger of all company finances is the evidence.
Also where is Usagi's company registered so people can serve legal papers ? This is pretty much a requirement in most countries.
Since Usagi wants to act like the "big businessman" he must have a company address, right ?
Did you signed a contract with specific terms covering such requirements, like 'company address', 'serve legal paper', etc.? |
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I knew you were going to say that. Very predictable. I am not going into arguments with you about the validity of Wikipedia articles. The assertion that preferential payment in case of a bankrupt company is a fraudulent crime is true and you know it. No, I do not know completely. That is why I asking for evidence, to verify if kjj accusation is based on verifiable facts. If usagi is unable to provide proper accounting, it is reasonable to assume that he is bankrupt.
Your assumption is certainly not based on reason. How 'unable to provide proper accounting' proves that Usagi 'is bankrupt'? |
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Shill. How much is Usagi paying you to pick up the soap ?
That is not an answer for what I asked. So your assumptions are based on what? Lack of evidence? |
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Usagi doesnt even provide proper profit and loss statements which a company with actual shareholders must provide from time to time. For example how much does CPA or BMF owe in tax ?
He has been paying company tax....right? Usagi doesnt have any company records to produce just a bunch of hot air. So your assumptions are based on what? Lack of evidence? |
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Given those conditions, you have no idea how much each share of debt is worth, and you have no idea how much each equity share is worth. Paying one creditor or shareholder (or any subset of them) at an assumed valuation is preferential. It is pretty much the definition, actually. In the real world it is a crime as described above. Please, provide evidence to prove that in 'the real world it is a crime as described above'. A single Wikipedia is not evidence to prove the assertion. I wish to review the evidence which proves that people have been accused, prosecuted and jailed for exactly what Usagi is supposedly doing. Moreover: An unfair preference (or "voidable preference") is a legal term arising in bankruptcy law where a person or company transfers assets or pays a debt to a creditor shortly before going into bankruptcy, that payment or transfer can be set aside on the application of the liquidator or trustee in bankruptcy as an unfair preference or simply a preference Usagi did not declared bankruptcy, so your evidence is worthless to support kjj's assertion. |
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They also contacted me last night. Who is "they"? I am pleased that they've provided a timeline for repayment and I'm assuming that they've taken into account the Christmas/New Year shut-down in making that estimate. For those who aren't aware of it, a lot of businesses here will be totally closed from the end of business on 21 December until at least 2 January. Some businesses and government departments are closed for longer or have only skeleton staff on deck on days which are not public holidays - so anything they need to do which involves other businesses or government can be affected by that. This is not a defined timeline of payment. Realistically speaking, even if people wanted to take recovery action right now instead of giving Crypto X Change the benefit of the doubt for the next 6 weeks, there is almost zero chance it would progress in any way until after the new year. Nobody's going to have less options in 6 weeks than they have right now.
"Zero chance" in accordance with what? |
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If you are a customer with funds held by Kenseycol PTY LTD, you can immediately start to demand your funds back. It is important to produce evidence for further actions against Kenseycol PTY LTD. Any amount of money, including Bitcoin, can be reclaimed in accordance with your terms.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126552.msg1364595#msg1364595
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Given those conditions, you have no idea how much each share of debt is worth, and you have no idea how much each equity share is worth. Paying one creditor or shareholder (or any subset of them) at an assumed valuation is preferential. It is pretty much the definition, actually. In the real world it is a crime as described above. Please, provide evidence to prove that in 'the real world it is a crime as described above'. Saying that you intend to pay everyone at some sort of face value is not a valid defense at this stage, because you don't know if you are capable of actually doing that or not. Good intentions, in the real world, might reduce your fine or jail time, but it won't prevent the conviction. You are implicit in accusing him of a criminal act without evidence to support your claim. Do you remember this? I've made no accusations. |
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OBS: Do not quote this post, possible later update.http://www.cryptoxchange.com/As of 19 November 2012, Crypto x Change stopped allowing trades. There have been a couple of incidents in which we are not allowed to make public which have forced us to close the exchange. We are sorry for any inconvenience, there are delays in support and processing withdrawals. It could take up to another 6 weeks before all withdrawl requests are finished.
If you are a customer with funds held by Kenseycol PTY LTD, you can immediately start to demand your funds back. It is important to produce evidence for further actions against Kenseycol PTY LTD. Any amount of money, including Bitcoin, can be reclaimed in accordance with your terms. Produce a Letter of DemandReferences:
ARTS LAW INFORMATION SHEET, Debt recovery letter of demand
Lawlink, Sample letters of demand- Copy and paste the below letter template to a text editor:
Dear Kenneth Peter Armitt
I enclose [attach appropriate documents to identify the amount owing, e.g. a copy of money deposit receipts.]
I demand that payment of the full amount be paid to me at the address stated below within [number of days] from the date of this letter.
Alternatively, and without prejudice to my rights for full recovery of the debt, I am prepared to accept the amount of [less than the full amount owed] as full and final settlement of the debt if paid within [number of days] from the date of this letter, at the following:
[e.g. your bank account, Bitcoin address, etc.]
If this matter is not resolved by the time specified above, I reserve the right to commence legal proceedings to recover the debt without further notice to you and this letter may be tendered in court as evidence of your failure to pay.
Yours sincerely
[your name, address and other contact details] - Change the relevant parts of the letter to fit your claim.
- Print, date and sign the letter.
- Attach documents which substantiate the claim (receipt, text log, screenshot, etc).
- Send the letter and the attachments to (one or more) of these postal addresses in exhibit I.
- [Optional] Send a copy of the edited letter with respective attachments to (one or more) of these email addresses in exhibit II.
Generate Bitcoin transaction receipts- Identify the respective transactions of the total amount sent to the service provider.
- Display all transactions using the search field in the blockchain.info Internet page.
- Print or save in a PDF file the displayed page. For appropriate results, choose “landscape” in the layout option and print or save only the first page.
- Use the field “Estimated BTC transacted” to calculate the total sum of all transactions.
Issue a Statutory Demand with an AffidavitCustomers with more than $2000 (AUD) worth in funds held by Kenseycol PTY LTD can serve a statutory demand in court. An affidavit describing the debt owed must be attached to the statutory demand. Read carefully the references below, download the templates, fill in the forms, and consult a solicitor. This is Kenseycol PTY LTD's "official" address to serve documents: Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 14 Sale Street Orange, NSW 2800 Australia A copy of the statutory demand can be delivered personally to Kenneth Peter Armitt at his new business: Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 180-182 Peisley St Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Templates:
Form 509H (Statutory Demand)
Form 40 UPCR NSW (Affidavit)
County Court, Civil Forms
Magistrates Court of Australia, Online Forms
Federal Court of Australia, Filing, forms, fees and costs
NSW Lawlink, Civil Forms
Queensland Courts, Forms
STATUTORY FORMS CORPORATIONS - EXTERNAL ADMINISTRATION
References:
Legal Aid Queensland, Affidavits and statutory declarations
Netlawman, Statutory Demand procedure: Company debtor
Streeterlaw’s Quality Management, What is a Statutory Demand?
What is an affidavit?
An affidavit is a written form of evidence used in court proceedings. An affidavit sets out the facts as you remember them. In some legal matters, the evidence you want the court to hear about your matter must be in an affidavit (e.g. family law matters). Does a company owe you money? The first thing to do is write them a Letter of Demand requesting payment. If your letter is ignored or your demand refuted, you then have the option of taking the party to court. This is done by filing a Summons (or Statement of Claim or Statutory Demand) in the relevant court. What is a Summons / Statutory Demand? - Section 9 of the Corporations Law defines a Statutory Demand as:
- A document that is or purports to be a demand served under Section 459E of the Corporations Law;
- Section 459E provides that a creditor may serve on a company a statutory demand for a single debt that is due and payable by the company to the creditor or two (2) or more debts due and payable by the company, the total of which must exceed $2,000.
When can I use a Statutory Demand? - Affter you have obtained default judgment; or,
- Before you commence proceedings by way of Statement of Liquidated Claim.
NB: Only use Statutory Demand to commence proceedings where you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that there is NO possibility of a dispute of whether the debtor owes you the money. When do you use a statutory demand? Use it when: - You are chasing more than $2,000;
- You are absolutely certain that they owe you the money - every penny of it and the debt is crystalised. That means you do not need to ask a judge to calculate how much money is due to you;
- Your debtor has the money;
- You calculate that your debtor will pay rather than risk your issuing a petition. This depends of course on his perception of you;
- You are prepared to follow up by issuing a petition. You hope that might never be necessary. But, as in any litigation, hesitation comes through in your tactics. You lose the impact completely if you are seen to be bluffing.
Service of a Statutory Demand - The Statutory Demand must be served on the registered office of the company (you must do an Australian Securities Commission's Search);
- You cannot serve a Statutory Demand on a foreign company as separate procedures are in place to wind up foreign companies.
Accordingly the delivery to a Debtor Company and non-compliance with the Statutory Demand will provide “proof” which is sufficient for a creditor to apply to the Court for the appointment of a liquidator to the company. Can the Statutory Demand just turn up in the post? The Statutory Demand may be: - delivered (or served) by leaving a copy of the document at the registered office of the debtor company; or
- Sent by post to the registered office of the debtor company; or
- delivered personally to the directors who reside in Australia.
So yes, a Statutory Demand could just “turn-up” in the post and still be effective.
ExhibitIKenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 14 Sales Street Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt PO BOX 8370 Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 180-182 Peisley St Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 37 Gregory St Berkeley Vale, NSW 2261 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 25 Olympic Drv Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 67 Hewitt Cl Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 109 - 111 Peisley Street Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 27 Kamdell Pl Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Kenseycol PTY LTD Kenneth Peter Armitt 64 McNamara Street Orange, NSW 2800 Australia Lodge Ophir No. 17 Kenneth Peter Armitt 25 Moad St Orange, NSW 2800 Australia IIlegal@cryptoxchange.comsuppot@cryptoxchange.comsales@cryptoxchange.comcontact@cryptoxchange.comkenseycolptyltd@live.com.aucolin@allwayselectrical.com.aukenarmitt@live.com.aucontact@kenseycol.comcolinarmitt@optusnet.com.auken@ccrsoftwareshop.comcontact@ccrsoftwareshop.comken@colourcity.comcontact@vehiclewraping.com.aucontact@lodgeophir17.com.ausales@corporatecomputerresources.com.auberylarmitt@gmail.comken@corporatecomputerresources.com.au
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Let me reiterate that there are people sitting in prison right now for doing the stuff that you are proposing.
Who, where and when that happened? |
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I am owed well over $2000 and one withdrawal request has now been 15 working days and still just showing as booked. I am not getting any replies on the help desk ticket. I will be starting some formal recovery actions in about a week. Has anyone heard anything from them recently?
You can read this thread to obtain the necessary information for a formal recovery: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126552.0 |
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