[CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx

[lebing]

I suggest sdice be moved to a more secure exchange.

+1

++1  BTC-TC

Lawl

Havelock FTW.

[1713287437]

1713287437

[1713287437]

1713287437

[1713287437]

1713287437

[Uglux]

...

Despite our forum clashes, I humbly and with goodwill ask:

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

If nothing is done about SD transaction spam (economically unspendable outputs which can't be pruned), transaction fees will be driven higher and every miner will bear the cost of forever storing these unprunable tx in their copies of the blockchain. In the long run, increased fees are not a problem but at the early stage we are in, it could dampen Bitcoin adoption or possibly kill it.

I think you are addressing the wrong people here. Asking greedy arrogant people to not be greedy and arrogant just for a moment, is like asking an addicted to pause being addicted.
Maybe you (or those who care about the development of the network) should increase pressure on the miners, since they are the ones, who decide (or "vote with their hash") which course the blockchain will take. If you convince the majority of the network, that it is in their favor to exclude Satoshi-Dust.com addresses ("temporarilly") from the Blockchain, they will block them.
Think of it as the first intervention or shaping of Bitcoinland by its demohashcracy. I know the ultra libertarians will spit in rage now. But take a look at the RealLifeWorld to see what happens, if you allow "total freedom" for a small part of society: a small unproductive and highly egoistic part of it will fuck the rest, ignoring everything else.
It is crazy, that satoshi dust is presenting itself as a gain for bitcoin. Instead they are only taking advantage of a weakness (gambling) of some people and produce NOTHING. Like RealLifeWorld's finance sector

Don't get me wrong. Anyone should have the freedom to gamble. But the fun of freedom is over, when the system that allows that freedom, is in "danger"
 
“Freedom is the power to choose our own chains”
― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

[misterbigg]

I think you are addressing the wrong people here. Asking greedy arrogant people to not be greedy and arrogant just for a moment, is like asking an addicted to pause being addicted.

Of course, I understand that this was a long shot but it couldn't hurt to ask. You never know.

[kgo]

...

Despite our forum clashes, I humbly and with goodwill ask:

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

Yes! Lets have all our stock exchanges unilaterally extort shareholders to force them to pursue arbitrary political agendas.  Especially in cases where the shareholders have no voting rights, can't compel the corporation to do anything, and the stock price in no way affects the corporation's daily operations.  What could possibly go wrong?

[nebulus]

...

Despite our forum clashes, I humbly and with goodwill ask:

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

If nothing is done about SD transaction spam (economically unspendable outputs which can't be pruned), transaction fees will be driven higher and every miner will bear the cost of forever storing these unprunable tx in their copies of the blockchain. In the long run, increased fees are not a problem but at the early stage we are in, it could dampen Bitcoin adoption or possibly kill it.

Let's not delist anything, let's fix the exchange and continue with business as usual....

[Uglux]

... and continue with business as usual....

[JordanL]

Wow, people are really giving away shares on the Bitfunder passthrough right now! It's going to jump 15-20%+ as soon as MPEX is fixed.      

[ThickAsThieves]

Wow, people are really giving away shares on the Bitfunder passthrough right now! It's going to jump 15-20%+ as soon as MPEX is fixed.      

If you've got the BTC, sdice wont get any cheaper this month, most likely.

[JordanL]

Wow, people are really giving away shares on the Bitfunder passthrough right now! It's going to jump 15-20%+ as soon as MPEX is fixed.      

If you've got the BTC, sdice wont get any cheaper this month, most likely.

I agree, I am buying. Blockchain.info downtime has cost me though, I (currently) use them as my hotwallet.

[Slushpuppy]

Well this thread made me feel a little better. I've been using bitfunder and watching the price plummet was disheartening. Why do you think the price will go back up when mpex is online?

[scrybe]

Well this thread made me feel a little better. I've been using bitfunder and watching the price plummet was disheartening. Why do you think the price will go back up when mpex is online?

Because the sell price on Mpex is .00588400, it's just that most folks don't know it.

When driving blind it's often a bad idea to jerk the wheel around, but some folks panic anyway and run off the road. (Ohio had great winter storm driving on Wednesday)

[MPOE-PR]

Despite our forum clashes, I humbly and with goodwill ask:

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

If nothing is done about SD transaction spam (economically unspendable outputs which can't be pruned), transaction fees will be driven higher and every miner will bear the cost of forever storing these unprunable tx in their copies of the blockchain. In the long run, increased fees are not a problem but at the early stage we are in, it could dampen Bitcoin adoption or possibly kill it.

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The approach proposed is fundamentally flawed in multiple places.

First and foremost, the only reasonable authority in Bitcoin is derived through the working of
contracts. Put another way this states that the power of "a collective", ie a group of users no
 matter how large to dispose for the future is nil. Put in yet another way, Bitcoin is not a
democracy, but a republic.

Consequently, to propose that MPEx breach its contract with SatoshiDICE because you would like
me to is a waste of breath : you are not a party to that contract, and consequently you have no
standing whatsoever in that relationship. The contract specifies clearly how it works, and it
will work as such.

Secondly, and just as importantly : the current codebase is broken beyond belief. As explained
in an earlier Trilema article, the main problems Bitcoin faces currently come from the general
inability and ineptitude of the de facto dev team. These problems are a. that users can not
create arbitrary size transactions up to the size of one full block ; b. that the client does
not correctly select the best possible combination of available inputs to feed a list of
arbitrary outputs. More generally speaking the codebase is replete with magic numbers, which is
no way to code. The fact that a 7Gb download takes an hour if we're talking a movie and a week
if we're talking the blockchain - especially considering that the average torrent rarely has
over 100 seeders and the Bitcoin blockchain rarely has under 1k - is further testament to the
utter inability of the core team.

Consequently, the correct approach is for these people to either fix the codebase - which will
require serious work - or else step down and let other people do it. The early enthusiasm of
"everyone's welcome and we're glad to have you" may have bridged us between Bitcoin being worth
nothing and Bitcoin being worth 1/10`000th of a pizza, but we are now playing in the grown-up
league and as such we need grown-up code. It is certainly not acceptable to proceed as proposed,
from a "this is what the codebase can do, we will pretend to limit usage of Bitcoin to that"
perspective, as is contemplated here. The only acceptable and the only correct approach is,
"this is how Bitcoin can be used, therefore this is how Bitcoin should be used, therefore this
is what our code must accomodate, let's get to work on it."

The fact that a number of people - such as Luke-jr, Gmaxwell, Mike Hearn etc - feel inclined to
compensate for their modest technical ability with a disproportionate and unwarranted political
preocupation is of course to be expected : the marginal and the stupid have tried to propel
themselves in the position of populist "leaders" for as long as humanity existed. This will not
work in Bitcoin, because that is not how Bitcoin works. It is specifically designed to foil the
very common alliance between the stupid but lazy and the ambitious but inept that regularly
wrecks fiat ventures of all sorts, from small business to entire countries. It will work as
intended for that purpose.

Please you idiots, fix the codebase. If you can't do that, go away.
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[velacreations]

wow, what a response.

"it's not our spam that is the problem, it is that your email accepts spam"

[lebing]

How is it possible that people signed up for mpex? Did they not know it was run by a child? The community needs to start voting with their feet. There are other, better exchanges out there. Why not use them?

[wtfvanity]

Despite our forum clashes, I humbly and with goodwill ask:

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

If nothing is done about SD transaction spam (economically unspendable outputs which can't be pruned), transaction fees will be driven higher and every miner will bear the cost of forever storing these unprunable tx in their copies of the blockchain. In the long run, increased fees are not a problem but at the early stage we are in, it could dampen Bitcoin adoption or possibly kill it.

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The approach proposed is fundamentally flawed in multiple places.

First and foremost, the only reasonable authority in Bitcoin is derived through the working of
contracts. Put another way this states that the power of "a collective", ie a group of users no
 matter how large to dispose for the future is nil. Put in yet another way, Bitcoin is not a
democracy, but a republic.

Consequently, to propose that MPEx breach its contract with SatoshiDICE because you would like
me to is a waste of breath : you are not a party to that contract, and consequently you have no
standing whatsoever in that relationship. The contract specifies clearly how it works, and it
will work as such.

Secondly, and just as importantly : the current codebase is broken beyond belief. As explained
in an earlier Trilema article, the main problems Bitcoin faces currently come from the general
inability and ineptitude of the de facto dev team. These problems are a. that users can not
create arbitrary size transactions up to the size of one full block ; b. that the client does
not correctly select the best possible combination of available inputs to feed a list of
arbitrary outputs. More generally speaking the codebase is replete with magic numbers, which is
no way to code. The fact that a 7Gb download takes an hour if we're talking a movie and a week
if we're talking the blockchain - especially considering that the average torrent rarely has
over 100 seeders and the Bitcoin blockchain rarely has under 1k - is further testament to the
utter inability of the core team.

Consequently, the correct approach is for these people to either fix the codebase - which will
require serious work - or else step down and let other people do it. The early enthusiasm of
"everyone's welcome and we're glad to have you" may have bridged us between Bitcoin being worth
nothing and Bitcoin being worth 1/10`000th of a pizza, but we are now playing in the grown-up
league and as such we need grown-up code. It is certainly not acceptable to proceed as proposed,
from a "this is what the codebase can do, we will pretend to limit usage of Bitcoin to that"
perspective, as is contemplated here. The only acceptable and the only correct approach is,
"this is how Bitcoin can be used, therefore this is how Bitcoin should be used, therefore this
is what our code must accomodate, let's get to work on it."

The fact that a number of people - such as Luke-jr, Gmaxwell, Mike Hearn etc - feel inclined to
compensate for their modest technical ability with a disproportionate and unwarranted political
preocupation is of course to be expected : the marginal and the stupid have tried to propel
themselves in the position of populist "leaders" for as long as humanity existed. This will not
work in Bitcoin, because that is not how Bitcoin works. It is specifically designed to foil the
very common alliance between the stupid but lazy and the ambitious but inept that regularly
wrecks fiat ventures of all sorts, from small business to entire countries. It will work as
intended for that purpose.

Please you idiots, fix the codebase. If you can't do that, go away.
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I always thought you were an idiot MPOE-PR, but now there is no more doubt in my mind.

[Peter Lambert]

Would you mind de-listing S.DICE temporarily to encourage shareholders to put pressure on the site operators to stop taking advantage of the block chain during this critical stage of Bitcoin growth? I know this might go against your short term financial interests but really if you stop to think about it, the "startup capital" of the Bitcoin network (gmaxwell's terminology for the currently unused space in each block) is going to unproductive activity which does not grow the Bitcoin economy.

The approach proposed is fundamentally flawed in multiple places.

First and foremost, the only reasonable authority in Bitcoin is derived through the working of
contracts. Put another way this states that the power of "a collective", ie a group of users no
 matter how large to dispose for the future is nil. Put in yet another way, Bitcoin is not a
democracy, but a republic.

Secondly, and just as importantly : the current codebase is broken beyond belief. As explained
in an earlier Trilema article, the main problems Bitcoin faces currently come from the general
inability and ineptitude of the de facto dev team. These problems are a. that users can not
create arbitrary size transactions up to the size of one full block ; b. that the client does
not correctly select the best possible combination of available inputs to feed a list of
arbitrary outputs. More generally speaking the codebase is replete with magic numbers, which is
no way to code. The fact that a 7Gb download takes an hour if we're talking a movie and a week
if we're talking the blockchain - especially considering that the average torrent rarely has
over 100 seeders and the Bitcoin blockchain rarely has under 1k - is further testament to the
utter inability of the core team.

Please you idiots, fix the codebase. If you can't do that, go away.

Very nice response. It was fun to read.

[ThickAsThieves]

I always thought you were an idiot MPOE-PR, but now there is no more doubt in my mind.

He's got a few rational suggestions in there, no?

[wtfvanity]

I always thought you were an idiot MPOE-PR, but now there is no more doubt in my mind.

He's got a few rational suggestions in there, no?

Point them out. His collection of names he tosses out there aren't on the same level. And it's an open source program. There is no one in charge. If you want something "fixed" in the code base, fix it yourself or hire someone to do it.

Huge companies contribute to open source projects because of the benefits it makes to their companies.

Interesting thing is, we don't need ideas on how to improve bitcoin. We need people to do it. There are a dozen things on the slate that will make bitcoin so much better. Not as many capable or willing people to implement them.

[ThickAsThieves]

If you want something "fixed" in the code base, fix it yourself or hire someone to do it.

Oh, the irony.

He's not the one that started a jihad against SDICE.

[miscreanity]

Of course, I understand that this was a long shot but it couldn't hurt to ask. You never know.

If Bitcoin cannot survive a benign use such as SD, it will not endure a malicious attack. Lobbying for a change based on perception instead of technical function is the road to ruin.