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Author Topic: Economic Totalitarianism  (Read 345416 times)
trollercoaster
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June 19, 2015, 03:42:56 AM
 #321

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stallion
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June 19, 2015, 05:03:03 AM
 #322

I also read on Armstrong's blog that under certain circumstances they can prevent you from traveling abroad if you have certain debts.

In the USA, they can cancel your passport if you are $2500 late on child support payments. And they are attempting to pass a law that if you owe the IRS money they can cancel your passport. And remember the IRS gestapo can issue assessments you might disagree with.

OROBTC, I would be very frightened about being a US citizen and having financial interest in a foreign business. If I had the means, I would have long ago relinquished my US citizenship to give me distance from the IRS gestapo.

Can you please attach a link to the blog post? I am interested to read the complete post now Smiley

TPTB_need_war
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June 19, 2015, 01:23:49 PM
 #323

The risk you are failing to attribute to gold is that you won't be able to find any where to sell it.

The government will close down all black markets when they move us to electronic money.

Black markets can only exist where the mainstream money is not trackable. Ponder that.

Your only chance to not lose all your wealth will be an anonymous crypto-currency. Remember I warned you and you didn't listen.

Why would someone who has anonymous crypto-currency want to trade it for gold wherein they risk their anonymity in a sting operation. Duh.


I also read on Armstrong's blog that under certain circumstances they can prevent you from traveling abroad if you have certain debts.

In the USA, they can cancel your passport if you are $2500 late on child support payments. And they are attempting to pass a law that if you owe the IRS money they can cancel your passport. And remember the IRS gestapo can issue assessments you might disagree with.

OROBTC, I would be very frightened about being a US citizen and having financial interest in a foreign business. If I had the means, I would have long ago relinquished my US citizenship to give me distance from the IRS gestapo.

Can you please attach a link to the blog post? I am interested to read the complete post now Smiley

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/21619

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/30727

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/11982

http://www.nestmann.com/why-the-irs-can-now-ground-you

http://www.nestmann.com/congress-wants-the-irs-to-cancel-your-passport

http://www.nestmann.com/why-congress-wants-to-revoke-your-passport

http://www.nestmann.com/owe-the-irs-money-pay-up-or-you-might-not-be-able-to-renew-your-passport

http://www.nestmann.com/congress-to-u-s-citizens-pay-your-income-tax-or-forfeit-your-passport

manselr
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June 19, 2015, 02:04:45 PM
 #324

@generalisethis - you asked why TPTB are not fighting bitcoin tooth and nail?

...

I will argue that bitcoin, while it may be suited as a reserve currency, will
do nothing to halt the advance of a kakistocracy. Bitcoin has many similarities to
gold and to other precious metals. These have all failed in the past, for the
reasons given above. The blockchain is the new technology, can we use it to
our advantage?

Since my first post on bitcointalk.org, I have argued for a better cryptocurrency.
This is my constant position, and like you, I am interested in self preservation.
Bitcoin may be the best lifeboat available, but is it good enough?

They are not fighting it because it (and arguably Monero too) are not anonymous. Thus all the incriminating evidence is being piled on to the block chain which they can use to expropriate you in the future.

No it isn't good enough, but if you read my posts over the past 2 weeks (start with this one and read backwards in the thread), you will know roughly what I am working on that is good enough.

Thats why I said we can't make Bitcoin mainstream until anonymity features are implemented. Imagine a world with a public ledger where there is nowhere to have any privacy. Right now I wouldn't say Monero isn't anonymous.. i think it's the most anonymous way we have now to do transactions online, but Monero is a small niche, to access it you need Bitcoin first, which defeats the point, so we need to work on Bitcoin's anonymity to not have to depend on some alt.
gmaxwell knows this is a serious issue and that's why he's pushing into that direction. The methods we have now to achieve some sort of privacy with bitcoin are pretty archaic (generating addresses each time, coin mixing... that's not proper anonimity).

Telegram; @bitcointalkaccseller
TPTB_need_war
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June 19, 2015, 05:59:03 PM
Last edit: June 19, 2015, 06:11:31 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #325

Right now I wouldn't say Monero isn't anonymous.

See my post to fluffypony several days ago. I explained precisely why it is not. I suggested to them what they need to do to fix it. There was no reply.

In addition to that issue, I also don't think the I2P integration is reliably anonymous (but I can't prove that and neither can they prove my concern is not valid). So that is two vectors of potential unreliability. I would not trust my anonymity entirely to Monero.

If you are always on an unregistered internet connection when you transact Monero (and never do any other activity on that connection!) and if you mix your coins "zillions" (10? 100? 1000?) of times[1] with Monero rings as they are currently structured, then you could probably be reasonably sure you are anonymous.

If they implement my suggested fix, then you won't need to mix zillions of times to gain confidence because the combinatorial anonymity set will be well defined and not subject to domino collapse by combinatorial correlation analysis.

They will also gain block chain pruning from my suggestion.

Feel free to relay this post to fluffypony. I don't want to badger them. I only interjected here because the point is necessary to make in response to other person's statement.

[1] it is always a good idea to mix your coins numerous times, even if they make the suggested fix, because it increases the anonymity set size. My suggestion just makes that increase more assured.

generalizethis
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June 19, 2015, 06:16:07 PM
Last edit: June 19, 2015, 06:50:33 PM by generalizethis
 #326

Right now I wouldn't say Monero isn't anonymous.

See my post to fluffypony several days ago. I explained precisely why it is not. I suggested to them what they need to do to fix it. There was no reply.

In addition to that issue, I also don't think the I2P integration is reliably anonymous (but I can't prove that and neither can they prove my concern is not valid). So that is two vectors of potential unreliability. I would not trust my anonymity entirely to Monero.

If you are always on an unregistered internet connection when you transact Monero (and never do any other activity on that connection!) and if you mix your coins "zillions" (10? 100? 1000?) of times with Monero rings as they are currently structured, then you could probably be reasonably sure you are anonymous.

If they implement my suggested fix, then you won't need to mix zillions of times to gain confidence because the combinatorial anonymity set will be well defined and not subject to domino collapse by combinatorial correlation analysis.

I'll have to go back and read it, but as of yesterday, Fluffy did answer your first post, but not the second post. To his credit he did say to nudge him with a PM if you had further concerns. I doubt he even read the second post. I'll post it on the main Monero thread and see if that gets a response. When I get a response, I will post it on this thread as I can only keep track of so many threads in a day and don't want to add another one to follow.

Thats why I said we can't make Bitcoin mainstream until anonymity features are implemented. Imagine a world with a public ledger where there is nowhere to have any privacy. Right now I wouldn't say Monero isn't anonymous.. i think it's the most anonymous way we have now to do transactions online, but Monero is a small niche, to access it you need Bitcoin first, which defeats the point, so we need to work on Bitcoin's anonymity to not have to depend on some alt.
gmaxwell knows this is a serious issue and that's why he's pushing into that direction. The methods we have now to achieve some sort of privacy with bitcoin are pretty archaic (generating addresses each time, coin mixing... that's not proper anonimity).

After watching the fight over blocksize, you think Bitcoin is going full-anonymous?

Things that will happen before that debate even starts:

--Evan Duffield will donate all his instamined dash to the Red Cross.

--Hillary Clinton will dominate the primary debates with 3 words, "I am Satoshi."

--Edward Snowden will throw out the first pitch in the World Series.

--Dick Cheney will admit he was wrong about everything.

--Monero will release an official GUI.




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June 19, 2015, 06:37:04 PM
Last edit: June 19, 2015, 06:47:52 PM by TPTB_need_war
 #327

I do hope Monero can make those improvements (if they agree) asap and not lose any time while they are the only available on chain anonymous choice. Competition will heat up soon with Blockstream's Confidential Transactions and Monero should make sure they don't have any fundamental (even theoretical) weaknesses in their anonymity before CT is released probably towards end of this year (or slightly sooner or later).

I did private message (on this forum) him, tacotime, and smooth with a link to my second reply.

TPTB_need_war
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June 19, 2015, 06:43:14 PM
 #328

Oh fuck, so this is how they will blackmail foreigners into enforcing totalitarianism on our home soil. Realize homegrown soldiers would usually not shoot their own people.

generalizethis
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June 19, 2015, 07:24:54 PM
 #329

I do hope Monero can make those improvements (if they agree) asap and not lose any time while they are the only available on chain anonymous choice. Competition will heat up soon with Blockstream's Confidential Transactions and Monero should make sure they don't have any fundamental (even theoretical) weaknesses in their anonymity before CT is released probably towards end of this year (or slightly sooner or later).

I did private message (on this forum) him, tacotime, and smooth with a link to my second reply.



The substance of his concerns is legitimate and it has been passed on to the mathematicians of MRL who are analyzing it. My intuition is that the probability of the saturation traceability occurring in practice is extremely low and it therefore doesn't matter, but that isn't a reason to dismiss the issue outright, it still needs to be analyzed and if necessary addressed.


I'll keep a tab on this and post if there is an update on any of the Monero threads.

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June 19, 2015, 10:19:51 PM
 #330

The substance of his concerns is legitimate and it has been passed on to the mathematicians of MRL who are analyzing it. My intuition is that the probability of the saturation traceability occurring in practice is extremely low and it therefore doesn't matter, but that isn't a reason to dismiss the issue outright, it still needs to be analyzed and if necessary addressed.

Here is the link to my last comments to fluffypony.

Note smooth is only referring the saturation that I had mentioned to him back during the BCX incident. In my recent post, I am also pointing out that the timing of the transactions mixed can lead to degenerate cases of mixes. I suspect he maybe didn't realize I added that point since we last spoke and thus he may be underestimating the likelihood of occurrence. You'll need to ask smooth.

I also replied in the Monero thread.

trollercoaster
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June 20, 2015, 01:18:58 AM
 #331

Oh fuck, so this is how they will blackmail foreigners into enforcing totalitarianism on our home soil. Realize homegrown soldiers would usually not shoot their own people.

this is likely, the media in the west has been fueling the tensions between immigrants and locals since 9/11
They'll be happy to follow orders in their new, better paid careers in the military.
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June 20, 2015, 01:44:35 AM
 #332

http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33697

on a similar note, a couple of weeks ago I saw pigs nabbing people for Jay walking on a busy street corner, they were hiding inside a cafe.
generalizethis
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June 20, 2015, 02:50:13 AM
 #333

The substance of his concerns is legitimate and it has been passed on to the mathematicians of MRL who are analyzing it. My intuition is that the probability of the saturation traceability occurring in practice is extremely low and it therefore doesn't matter, but that isn't a reason to dismiss the issue outright, it still needs to be analyzed and if necessary addressed.

Here is the link to my last comments to fluffypony.

Note smooth is only referring the saturation that I had mentioned to him back during the BCX incident. In my recent post, I am also pointing out that the timing of the transactions mixed can lead to degenerate cases of mixes. I suspect he maybe didn't realize I added that point since we last spoke and thus he may be underestimating the likelihood of occurrence. You'll need to ask smooth.

I also replied in the Monero thread.

I'm sure Smooth isn't underestimating or ignoring your concern and is waiting for more feedback from the other developers.

trollercoaster
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June 20, 2015, 02:56:28 AM
Last edit: June 20, 2015, 04:11:21 AM by trollercoaster
 #334

http://www.coindesk.com/elliptic-launches-bitcoin-blockchain-visualization-tool/

https://www.elliptic.co

https://controllingcryptocurrencies.wordpress.com/

http://www.switchnewmedia.com/crypto-currencies/VOD_Archive/Jonathan_Levin_Chainalysis___Video_Archive.php

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102749808

http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/05/shocard-is-a-digital-identity-card-on-the-blockchain/
generalizethis
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June 20, 2015, 05:25:35 AM
 #335

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1094502.new#new

Started this in the alt.coin section as I think Bitcoin more easily is discussed there than talking about other coins can be talked about in the Bitcoin section.

Mehek
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June 20, 2015, 11:06:33 AM
 #336

In my eyes cash is easier to hide than BTC and crypto. One is undeclared and not really traceable when used for buying goods. Crypto on the other hand can leave all sorts of trails of you happen to drop an address of yours somewhere. That being said, should you manage to buy it anonymously and keep it in cold storage then you may have a chance of using it without having to declare.
sounds like a real hassle to me but cash is not easier to handle having a large amount is not safe bitcoin may be more easier but i think to get good mileage out of bitcoins you need to wait a few years. i guess every option has a pro and con.
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June 20, 2015, 08:16:22 PM
 #337

It is good to see fresh impetus given to the search for privacy. A secure method
of communication, indistinguishable from money, proven in use, is the next
evolutionary step in the creation of free money - free in the sense of free speech.

Leaving that for the moment, I again state my view that unless a complete answer
is available, the Deep State will continue to absorb the private sector and to
destroy privacy in particular, because that is its design and purpose - to grow.

Three possible outcomes seem likely: Total domination; or shrinkage; or collapse.
Now, unless you have been walking about with a bucket over your head since about
1965, when the USA disowned first silver money and later gold, you must have
realised that things cannot expand indefinitely. Faced with collapse, the Deep
State is doubling down on Totalitarianism - shrinkage is their unacceptable outcome,
but further expansion invites WWIII.

You might think these are vague theoretical concepts until you look at Greece.
There, the only surprise is that DSK was found out, but note that the game advanced
by the IMF goes on without him because the rules are fixed in place.

The game will have only one winner and you ain't even in the Club. So what to do?

For we Doomers, the natural play is to short everything. Anyone attempting that
prior to July 2014 got handily crushed. If you've since made some money shorting oil
related services, congratulations. Forgive me, though, if I expect the gains
available from that escape route to be gradually crushed by regulation and taxation.

"You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it
becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you
pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash.
Become like water my friend." - Bruce Lee
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June 21, 2015, 12:02:52 AM
 #338

It was the friction of high fixed capital investment of the Industrial Age which prevented optimal network scaling.

You write as though such “friction” could be indeliberate and unplutocratic.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
TPTB_need_war
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June 21, 2015, 01:40:29 AM
 #339

Update on my Monero efforts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg11671682#msg11671682

Some hints why what I am working on is so critically needed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg11671506#msg11671506

generalizethis
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June 21, 2015, 01:53:39 AM
 #340


Aren't gold and oil sidechains of the dollar?  Wink

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