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TPTB_need_war
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September 14, 2015, 09:38:12 AM |
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I live in Britain and we've had wall-to-wall media coverage of Corbyn for what seems like months now. The latest I heard this morning on BBC Radio 4's "Today" programme was that Corbyn would prefer to stay in Europe. I think it is too early to say just what his precise plans are; if he'll be more inclusive of the more middle-ground members of the Party or not. I think Armstrong is being a little sensationalist in the way he's presenting the story, to make his point. I agree that the money printing seems rather naive. Many people here are feeling financial pain and Corbyn seems to be offering hope for them, however realistic or unrealistic that might turn out to be. I think what Armstrong is not saying is that the financial hurt will accelerate after October and that will drive more mandate to Corbyn. For now of course Corbyn will make apparently concessions to unify his power, but later the economy will play right into his true goals. Well that is the fear any way. We'll see how this all plays out and to what degree this coming contagion is really severe. We all wait to see it if it will be a dud. |
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TPTB_need_war
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September 14, 2015, 10:02:47 AM
Last edit: September 14, 2015, 02:45:45 PM by TPTB_need_war |
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Right on schedule China announces they will reform the SOEs that have been holding China's economy down ( refer to China expert Profession Michael Pettis's blog for the reasons SOEs are so critical to China's imbalance of an excessive fixed capital investment sector crowding out the services and mainstreet sector of the economy). The timing is 2020.05, which is precisely when Armstrong's model predicts Asia to bottom. By 2032.95, Singapore and Shanghai will replace London and New York as the new financial capitals of the world. From 2020.05 to 2032.95, the West fall off into the abyss of the ramifications of its destructed demographics and ingrained socialism ($trillions of unfunded liabilities, debts, derivatives, etc).  https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmstrongeconomics.com+China+2020https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmstrongeconomics.com+rise+of+Chinahttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/13/us-china-economy-activity-idUSKCN0RD04420150913China unveils details of state-firm reforms as growth sputters
China unveiled details on Sunday of how it would restructure its state-owned enterprises (SOEs), including partial privatization, as data pointed to a cooling in the world's second-largest economy.
The guidelines, jointly issued by the Communist Party's Central Committee and the State Council, China's cabinet, included plans to clean up and integrate some state firms, the official Xinhua news agency said. It did not elaborate.
Reform of underperforming state-owned enterprises is one of China's most pressing needs. But if not handled well, the restructuring could lead to hundreds of thousands of people being laid off and social instability.
Xinhua said the plans included introducing "mixed ownership" by bringing in private investment, and "decisive results" were expected by 2020.
The government will not force "mixed ownership", nor will it set a timetable, giving each firm the go-ahead only when conditions are mature, it said.
"This reform will be positive for improving the impetus of the economy and making growth more sustainable," said Xu Hongcai, director of the economic research department at the China Centre for International Economic Exchanges (CCIEE), a Beijing-based think-think.
Partial privatization, he added, would help establish "check-and-balance and incentive systems" at state firms.
China's government manages 111 companies centrally under the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, or SASAC. Local governments own and manage around 25,000 state-owned companies and the sector employs nearly 7.5 million people.
State firms will be allowed to bring in "various investors" to help diversify share ownership, and more state firms will be encouraged to restructure to pave the way for stock listings, Xinhua said.
Private investors will be encouraged to buy stakes in state firms, buy convertible bonds issued by state firms, or swap shares with state firms, it said, adding steps will be taken to curb corruption during reforms.
SOEs will be divided into commercial and public welfare-related businesses during the reform process. Oil and gas, electricity, railways and telecommunications were identified as sectors that could be suitable for limited non-state investment.
However, Beijing will have to persuade entrenched interests at local, provincial and national governments to relinquish some control over state enterprises and attract investors to buy shares after one of the worst stock market crashes in China's history. |
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THX 1138
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September 14, 2015, 10:27:33 AM |
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I live in Britain and we've had wall-to-wall media coverage of Corbyn for what seems like months now. The latest I heard this morning on BBC Radio 4's "Today" programme was that Corbyn would prefer to stay in Europe. I think it is too early to say just what his precise plans are; if he'll be more inclusive of the more middle-ground members of the Party or not. I think Armstrong is being a little sensationalist in the way he's presenting the story, to make his point. I agree that the money printing seems rather naive. Many people here are feeling financial pain and Corbyn seems to be offering hope for them, however realistic or unrealistic that might turn out to be. I think what Armstrong is not saying is that the financial hurt will accelerate after October and that will drive more mandate to Corbyn. For now of course Corbyn will make apparently concessions to unify his power, but later the economy will play right into his true goals. Well that is the fear any way. We'll see how this all plays out and to what degree this coming contagion is really severe. We all wait to see it if it will be a dud. Sincerely hoping for a dud! Though gearing-up my preparations. I'm still unclear of Corbyn's "true goals," (if he's actually formulated any with such short notice) and I remain to be convinced he's the "hard Marxist" he's being made out to be by the media, though of course I don't discount it. The apparent stark alternatives Brits are offered, with crony capitalism on one hand and apparent Communism on the other, seems like a choice between either being shot or knifed. The general public appear to have been attracted to both ends of the political spectrum in numbers, both to Corbyn and Farage for their seeming lack of guile and rejection of slick PR tools. I can't recall Armstrong describing how Britain might fair in comparison to the fate of the rest of Europe. |
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TPTB_need_war
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September 14, 2015, 11:12:31 AM |
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North America, Australia and New Zealand have all seen their hottest years on record recently, I've been there and experienced that.
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33511 U.S. Continuous Average Temperature Index – Discontinued
The National U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) monthly temperature updates have been discontinued. The official CONUS temperature record is now based upon nClimDiv. USHCN data for January 1895 to August 2014 will remain available for historical comparison. However, one must wonder if the data, which was demonstrating a cooling period rather than global warming, was conflicting with political agendas to raise taxes based upon false information. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35288Sea Ice in Arctic Sea Expanded by 33% As Earth Turns Colder
The BBC has reported that the sheer volume of Arctic sea ice increased significantly by about 33% after an unusually cool summer unfolded in 2013. Researchers confirm that the same pattern of sea ice expansion has taken place in 2014. The BBC reports that the scientists involved believe changes in summer temperatures have a greater impact on ice than previously thought. This is part of the long-term cycle. It is going to get colder in the years ahead and there will be more volatility. Those who continue to believe in global warming do so because that is what they want to believe. You cannot accept cycles in everything else, including markets, but deny that they exist in nature. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34854Meanwhile, real scientists who study the cyclical movement within nature are observing what we have been warning – a coming Ice Age, not global warming. We should see the collapse in temperatures faster than we suspect, for it will mimic a Waterfall Event in our market terminology. This is the true nature of how things simply move. Real scientists are starting to warn that we will see temperatures plummet by 2030. We are entering the Maunder Minimum Petri Dish of Political Change and nobody seems to comprehend the political ramifications ahead.
During my European tour, I packed only summer closes. I had to go buy sweaters for it rarely went over 60 degrees Fahrenheit (15 Celsius). It did not get warm until I arrived in Italy and Spain.
Our model tracks everything including climate for that too is a major influence within the development of the global economy. It just seems that whatever could go wrong is going to go wrong in the coming 26 years from 2007 in many areas, so the other side of 2032.95 is going to be a different world. By the way, global warming peaked in 2007. So for all the supporter of global warming, try doing as you preach. Give up your cars and start walking.
The real problem is not global warming but global cooling. In fact, we are in crash mode. Our model confirms that as we move into the end of this current wave 2032.95, the other side of that appears to be a very serious famine that changes the political landscape as took place in the period known as the Maunder Minimum. This is a serious forecast for during the last such period, the further north you are the higher the probability of starvation. Indeed Prussia lost 40% of its population to famine at that time and Scotland lost about 15%.
Maunder Minimum is also known as the “prolonged sunspot minimum”, which was a period starting in about 1645 and continuing to about 1715 when sunspots became exceedingly rare, as noted by solar observers of the time. Consequently, based upon running the data through our model, it appears that this is crashing faster than any time previously. This would tend to warn that we may exceed the record of deaths of the 16th century and that is not good news. Yet this is just nature’s way of trimming back the population like hitting control-alt-delete in computer terms.
During the last Maunder Minimum in 17th century, longer winters and cooler summers disrupted growing seasons and destroyed harvests all across Europe. This was the coldest century in a period of glacial expansion that lasted from the early 14th century until the mid-19th century. The summer of 1641 was the third coldest recorded over the past six centuries in Europe and the winter of 1641–1642 was the coldest ever recorded in Scandinavia.
The Maunder Minimum produced an unusual cold trend that lasted from the 1620s until the 1690s most intensely and included ice on both the Bosporus and the Baltic so thick that people could walk from one side to the other. So much for global warming pundits who are putting out such bogus research it is amazing. This crowd of con artists has created such propaganda that the world population is totally unprepared; by the time they figure out these people are bullshitting everyone for grant money, it will be too late to prepare for the onslaught. We could realistically see famine reach the 33%–50% mortality level after 2032.95.
The Maunder Minimum created such a deep cold in Europe and extreme weather events elsewhere that what unfolds is a series of droughts, floods, and harvest failures. Historically, this leads to massive migrations, wars and revolutions. The fatal synergy between human and natural disasters eradicated perhaps one-third of the human population during the last event and this time we are crashing more rapidly than before. Therefore, we may exceed more than a reduction in population of one-third and reach the levels of the 14th century of 50%, which was also combined with the Black Plague.
What took place during the 17th century suggests that altered weather conditions can have catastrophic political and social consequences. Political systems are already in crash mode with BIG BANG. Add to this the crisis we see in weather cycles and the world will be augmented by unpredictable crises involving water, food, energy supply chains, and public health. States will unquestionably collapse as famine could overtake large populations and flood or disease could cross borders and lead to internal instability or international conflict.
There were three primary factors at work globally during the 17th century that combined to produce chaos. There were increases in volcanic eruptions, twice as many El Niño episodes (unusually warm ocean conditions along the tropical west coast of South America), and the virtual disappearance of sunspots, reducing solar output to warm the Earth. These three forces combined are acknowledge by real Earth science.
The 17th century saw a proliferation of wars, civil wars, rebellions, and more cases of state breakdown around the globe than any previous or subsequent age. This was the Petri Dish that brewed the revolution against the monarchy that would give birth to the American and French revolutions. In the year 1648, rebellions paralyzed both Russia (the largest state in the world) and France (the most populous state in Europe); civil wars broke out in Ukraine, England, and Scotland, and irate subjects in Istanbul (Europe’s largest city) strangled Sultan Ibrahim.
The Maunder Minimum did not cause all the catastrophes alone during the 17th century, but it most certainly exacerbated many of them. Outbreaks of disease, especially smallpox and plague, erupted as was the case during the previous episode that saw the Black Plague wipeout 50% of the population. Plagues correlate to periods when harvests are poor or have failed. When an uprising by Irish Catholics on October 23, 1641, drove the Protestant minority from their homes, no one had foreseen a severe cold snap with heavy frost and snow in a place that rarely has snow. Thousands of Protestants died of exposure, turning a political protest into a massacre that cried out for vengeance. Oliver Cromwell would later use that episode to justify his brutal campaign to restore Protestant supremacy in Ireland. This was the period of the British Civil War with the Puritans beheading Catholic King Charles I.
The Maunder Minimum did take a more direct toll as weather turned bitterly cold. Western Europe experienced the worst harvest of the century in 1648. Rioting broke out in Sicily, Stockholm, and elsewhere when bread prices spiked. In the Alps, poor growing seasons became the norm in the 1640s, and records document the disappearance of fields, farmsteads and even whole villages as glaciers advanced to the farthest extent since the last Ice Age. One consequence of crop failures and food shortages stands out in French military records: soldiers born in the second half of the 1600s were, on average, an inch shorter than those born after 1700, and those born in the famine years were noticeably shorter than the rest.
The Maunder Minimum impacted the entire planet for very few areas of the world survived the 17th century unscathed by extreme weather. Even in China, a combination of droughts and disastrous harvests, coupled with rising tax demands and cutbacks in government programs, unleashed a wave of banditry and chaos; starving Manchu clansmen from the north undertook a brutal conquest that lasted a generation. In 1644, peasant rebels led by Li Zicheng conquered the Ming capital in Beijing. Rather than serve them, Ming general Wu Sangui made an alliance with the Manchus and opened the Shanhai Pass to the Banner Armies led by Prince Dorgon, who defeated the rebels and seized Beijing. The conquest of China was not complete until 1683 under the Kangxi Emperor (r. 1661–1722).
North America and West Africa both experienced famines and savage wars. In India, drought followed by floods killed over a million people in Gujarat between 1627 and 1630. In Japan, a mass rebellion broke out on the island of Kyushu following several poor harvests. Five years later, famine, followed by an unusually severe winter, killed perhaps 500,000 Japanese.
The famines that hit India wiped out millions, weakening the population and the economy, whereas India had been the financial capital of the world after the Byzantine Empire’s collapse in 1453 to the rise of Islam. Following this devastating Maunder Minimum period of the 1600s, we can see that India fell as the financial capital of the world, handing that crown to China. India was ripe for the picking. In the first half of the 18th century, the British were a trading presence at certain points along the coast of India. From the 1750s, the British began to wage war on land in eastern and southeastern India. To reap the reward of successful warfare, which was the exercise of political power notably over the rich province of Bengal. By the end of the century, British rule consolidated over the first conquests and extended up the Ganges valley to Delhi and over most of the peninsula of southern India. The British then turned to China and eventually established Hong Kong, which was handed back in 1998.
No human intervention can avert the Maunder Minimum or volcanic eruptions, halt an El Niño episode or delay the onset of drought, despite the possibility that each could cause starvation, economic dislocation, and political instability. So sorry, I do not ask for donations to prevent this from unfolding. We do possess both the resources and the technology to prepare for them. It is possible to grow food in your basement without land. Hydroponics may become a very valuable asset.
In the 17th century, the fatal synergy of weather, wars, and rebellions, killed millions amounting to about one-third of the population. A natural catastrophe of analogous proportions today would kill billions. It would also produce dislocation and violence, and compromise international security, sustainability and cooperation. Country borders will likely change or vanish altogether. This is part of our forecast on why the USA will break-up after 2032.95.
So while we argue over global warming, we should look at history rather than fake research that attributes everything to the invention of the combustion engine at the start of the 20th century and respect that there just may be long-term cycles at work that can be documented from real data. If history repeats, the global warming crowd will be the first to go since they will be totally unrepentant and unprepared. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/334352008 Forecast: NYC Will Be Under Water by June 2015 – Oops
Seven years ago, ABC News reported a dire forecast on global warming, claiming that scientists predicted that New York City would be under water by June 2015. Well, they also predicted gasoline would be over $9 a gallon and a carton of milk would be almost $13. Well, hope you didn’t have call options on oil, eggs, and milk. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/31175 Global Warming Stopped 16 Years AgoThe Daily Mail released the numbers, showing all along that this idea of global warming has been just a natural cycle. London used to be horrible to live in during the summer, when the buses spewed out black exhaust. Today all the buses run on electric or natural gas, and to a large extent, the improved air quality has restored the city. However, that is distinctly different from actually altering the entire planet. Traveling around Europe on this tour, I personally packed summer clothes but found myself needing to buy warmer things to wear, and should have brought a coat. It was unseasonably cool and did not become warm until I hit Spain. We are moving back toward colder weather, not hotter. The Daily Mail Wrote: The world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago, according to new data released last week. The figures, which have triggered debate among climate scientists, reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012, there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures.
This means that the ‘plateau’ or ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996. Before that, temperatures had been stable or declining for about 40 years. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/29939Climate Change – A Fraud to Justify More Taxes
The global climate change crowd really needs to be imprisoned. They have been deliberately creating a giant fraud that is just amazing. The low in the energy output of the sun was during the late 1700s. They have attributed everything to man and ignored long historical evidence that demonstrates that there is a cyclical beat to the sun, just as there is to your heart.
Anyone with a background in electrical engineering can tell you the difference between DC (direct current) and AC (alternating current) is straightforward. AC is adding a cycle to the energy that can be transmitted over distances. DC is a constant output at one level. As in economics, where people want to eliminate the boom and bust cycle to create a DC economic world. The problem is that resistance will wear down the current, and as soon as it declines ever so slightly, it ceases to function.
Everything in the universe functions to a cyclical beat. That is the supreme design of everything. This is not the Theory of Everything – it is the Fact of Everything. The global warming con artists are clever, but reveal either their stupidity or their total dishonesty. There is no in-between here. If they have not done their research historically beyond 1800 AD, then they are complacent, or have done so and are trying to find post-1800s examples to suit their tactic to get money.
So they are either stupid or criminal, but it is starting to look like the latter. A commission is starting to investigate their manipulation of data to adjust it like the government does to CPI, unemployment, and GDP. The British newspaper, the Telegraph, has led the charge in exposing the duplicity of the global warming crowd. I for one, think that they should be criminally prosecuted for what they have done. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/29858Duke University Disagrees with Global Warming
Duke University has parted from the other universities who benefit from collecting money to further global warming theories. Duke has done what I have argued, they conducted a study based on 1,000 years of temperature records. They analyzed the whole thing and compared it to the most severe emissions scenarios by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). What they discovered is simply that global warming has not happened as fast as expected. The research claims that natural variability in surface temperatures over the course of a decade can account for increases and dips in warming rates. Hence, this is not a man-made trend.
Unfortunately, everything we have input into our computer warned that we were turning back down toward colder weather – not warming. On this score, Duke University seems to be far more objective than those seeking to create propaganda for global warming that the government can use as the excuse to raise taxes.
To say we do not have an impact on the climate is still foolish, because we do
If you study science, you will realize you speak nonsense. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34854No human intervention can avert the Maunder Minimum or volcanic eruptions, halt an El Niño episode or delay the onset of drought, despite the possibility that each could cause starvation, economic dislocation, and political instability. So sorry, I do not ask for donations to prevent this from unfolding. We do possess both the resources and the technology to prepare for them. It is possible to grow food in your basement without land. Hydroponics may become a very valuable asset. When Mount St Helens erupted, President Ronald Reagan made this comment: “I have flown twice over Mount St. Helens out on our West Coast. I’m not a scientist and I don’t know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about.”
President Ronald Reagan, 1980 Reagan was right because automobiles principally emit carbon compounds, such as carbon monoxide, and nitrous oxides. Sulfur dioxide is not a problem with auto emissions. According to the US Geological Society untainted by the Global Warming/Climate Change Crowd, said: “An estimated 1.5 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide gas was discharged by Mount St. Helens during the explosive eruption of 18 May 1980. Thus, approximately 2 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide was released during the whole eruption sequence.” Consequently, there are two problems with the data. Even the EPA admits it cannot accurately attribute how much greenhouse gas is naturally created v man. If we add together the massive release of sulfur dioxide that occurred from Mount St. Helens when it erupted, along with the likely gas eruption before and after for five years on either side of the eruption, Reagan’s claim that he had “a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving” appears to be fairly close to accurate, and this was just his guess. It appears that we would enter a White Earth Effect and die as a planet if the volcanic activity ceased. That is the source of warming up the planet again when the sun turns down. Sure, man may add to volatility, but we by no means possess the power to change the climate cycle. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof the the long-term 300 years cycle has changed. People who believe this nonsense should not read this blog for you you must also be a deep-rooted Marxist and believe all the BS of governments. If you buy into that, you might as well buy into everything they say. Only an idiot can possibly think we have the capacity to alter the universe or how it functions. We are incapable of even grasping all the variables at play. If you have a basement, you can grow your own food without land and this may be the next hot trend. but let's say he is also right about the declining output of the sun by 2030 and we receive this mini-iceage, then it would not be so severe as he thinks because it's already being heated up, even needed to restore that balance.
That is not the way it works. You do not have Armstrong's historical database on what really happens. You trust Rockefeller's Council on Foreign Relations  He one of the key powers-that-be that have been funding environmentalism nonsense, global warming lies, and feminism movement that destroyed the West. Westerners are so entirely indoctrinated into lies and falsehoods and that is why the West will collapse. |
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bigtimespaghetti
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September 14, 2015, 11:28:02 AM |
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I live in Britain and we've had wall-to-wall media coverage of Corbyn for what seems like months now. The latest I heard this morning on BBC Radio 4's "Today" programme was that Corbyn would prefer to stay in Europe. I think it is too early to say just what his precise plans are; if he'll be more inclusive of the more middle-ground members of the Party or not. I think Armstrong is being a little sensationalist in the way he's presenting the story, to make his point. I agree that the money printing seems rather naive. Many people here are feeling financial pain and Corbyn seems to be offering hope for them, however realistic or unrealistic that might turn out to be. I think what Armstrong is not saying is that the financial hurt will accelerate after October and that will drive more mandate to Corbyn. For now of course Corbyn will make apparently concessions to unify his power, but later the economy will play right into his true goals. Well that is the fear any way. We'll see how this all plays out and to what degree this coming contagion is really severe. We all wait to see it if it will be a dud. Sincerely hoping for a dud! Though gearing-up my preparations. I'm still unclear of Corbyn's "true goals," (if he's actually formulated any with such short notice) and I remain to be convinced he's the "hard Marxist" he's being made out to be by the media, though of course I don't discount it. The apparent stark alternatives Brits are offered, with crony capitalism on one hand and apparent Communism on the other, seems like a choice between either being shot or knifed. The general public appear to have been attracted to both ends of the political spectrum in numbers, both to Corbyn and Farage for their seeming lack of guile and rejection of slick PR tools. I can't recall Armstrong describing how Britain might fair in comparison to the fate of the rest of Europe. Watch some of his talks (the one done at Oxford University (Union?)is short and sweet) I was shocked at how outdated and laughable his rhetoric was- people seem to really buy the idea that there is any real poverty in the UK. But it will give you a feel for his 'style'. But I agree- he's not a pure Marxist (just expresses admiration for Marx) but he is compared to Ed Miliband and certainly since any politician in his position since the 70s. Even if he did get elected, probably worth betting on that just in case you make a fortune  collapse would not happen overnight. But I doubt it would be good news for those that earn an above average salary. |
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trollercoaster
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September 14, 2015, 11:29:24 AM |
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THX 1138
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September 14, 2015, 12:36:56 PM
Last edit: September 14, 2015, 01:00:29 PM by THX 1138 |
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I live in Britain and we've had wall-to-wall media coverage of Corbyn for what seems like months now. The latest I heard this morning on BBC Radio 4's "Today" programme was that Corbyn would prefer to stay in Europe. I think it is too early to say just what his precise plans are; if he'll be more inclusive of the more middle-ground members of the Party or not. I think Armstrong is being a little sensationalist in the way he's presenting the story, to make his point. I agree that the money printing seems rather naive. Many people here are feeling financial pain and Corbyn seems to be offering hope for them, however realistic or unrealistic that might turn out to be. I think what Armstrong is not saying is that the financial hurt will accelerate after October and that will drive more mandate to Corbyn. For now of course Corbyn will make apparently concessions to unify his power, but later the economy will play right into his true goals. Well that is the fear any way. We'll see how this all plays out and to what degree this coming contagion is really severe. We all wait to see it if it will be a dud. Sincerely hoping for a dud! Though gearing-up my preparations. I'm still unclear of Corbyn's "true goals," (if he's actually formulated any with such short notice) and I remain to be convinced he's the "hard Marxist" he's being made out to be by the media, though of course I don't discount it. The apparent stark alternatives Brits are offered, with crony capitalism on one hand and apparent Communism on the other, seems like a choice between either being shot or knifed. The general public appear to have been attracted to both ends of the political spectrum in numbers, both to Corbyn and Farage for their seeming lack of guile and rejection of slick PR tools. I can't recall Armstrong describing how Britain might fair in comparison to the fate of the rest of Europe. Watch some of his talks (the one done at Oxford University (Union?)is short and sweet) I was shocked at how outdated and laughable his rhetoric was- people seem to really buy the idea that there is any real poverty in the UK. But it will give you a feel for his 'style'. But I agree- he's not a pure Marxist (just expresses admiration for Marx) but he is compared to Ed Miliband and certainly since any politician in his position since the 70s. Even if he did get elected, probably worth betting on that just in case you make a fortune collapse would not happen overnight. But I doubt it would be good news for those that earn an above average salary. It is assumed by many outside the UK that its inhabitants are prosperous. Bigtimespaghetti, while Corbyn is a clearly a decent bloke and means well, I wonder if he has the calibre to stand up to the rigorous debate (I'll check out that Oxford Union talk you mentioned) he is soon to encounter. I'll watch with interest - mind you, the intellectul bar is set particularly low already with Cameron and Osborne! To many outside the UK it is assumed we are generally prosperous; relatively speaking, yes, but they generally fail to mention the large amount of personal debt, the number of working people forced to attend food banks because they can't make ends meet; the housing shortages and high rents etc. Edit - to prevent ambiguity. Btw, I'm not a Socialist in case you were wondering. I have empathy for the suffering of the disadvantaged but don't buy into Socialist economic solutions. The British public are of course fickle and will generally vote Tory if they think that they will prosper under them, and Labour if they are hurting too badly and want a fairer deal. Well anyway, let's hope collapse doesn't occur here over night and we have a bit of breathing space to make decisions. I just checked, and I could get delivery tomorrow from my usual place if I chose. I've stopped reading these gold-promoting articles on ZH - I noticed this one was via BullionStar.com |
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macsga
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Strange, yet attractive.
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September 14, 2015, 12:54:46 PM |
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I just checked, and I could get delivery tomorrow from my usual place if I chose. I've stopped reading these gold-promoting articles on ZH - I noticed this one was via BullionStar.com
Thanks for clarifying this; I guess most of the articles I'm now reading are pointing to this specific direction. That short-of making me trigger happy. |
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bigtimespaghetti
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September 14, 2015, 01:04:14 PM |
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Bigtimespaghetti, while Corbyn is a clearly a decent bloke and means well, I wonder if he has the calibre to stand up to the rigorous debate (I'll check out that Oxford Union talk you mentioned) he is soon to encounter. I'll watch with interest - mind you, the intellectul bar is set particularly low already with Cameron and Osborne! As you say, to many outside the UK it is assumed we are generally prosperous. They fail to mention the large amount of personal debt, the number of working people forced to attend food banks because they can't make ends meet; the housing shortages and high rents etc.
Yes people are drawn to him because he seems well meaning (I can't fault him for that). As to debate- I think he is not going to be the sole proprietor at PM's question time I heard he was going to allow any member of his party to question Cameron. As to Cam and Ozzy. I'm not convinced they are idiots, but that's another topic. I find the foodbanks somewhat enabling (at least to those who do not want to help themselves), there are a lot of contributing factors I know. I grew up dirt poor and still managed to get fed. But yes, personal debt (which contributes to the foodbank problem especially) and the housing shortage are serious (largely regulatory) issues. If people give up hope, Corbyn's rhetoric may be more attractive. Hell, I even agree with the idea of public infrastructure upgrade and housing developments (again this is a mainly regulatory issue). If you're gonna have a huge state, after all |
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THX 1138
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September 14, 2015, 01:06:55 PM |
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I just checked, and I could get delivery tomorrow from my usual place if I chose. I've stopped reading these gold-promoting articles on ZH - I noticed this one was via BullionStar.com
Thanks for clarifying this; I guess most of the articles I'm now reading are pointing to this specific direction. That short-of making me trigger happy. ZH needs a bit of a (mental) health warning at times |
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TPTB_need_war
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September 14, 2015, 01:26:39 PM |
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I watched the Oxford Union speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZvAvNJL-gEbigtimespaghetti, you are obviously part of the younger socialist generation. I've seen it numerous times where you drift left. You even were going to take out a loan to attain real estate right at the peak of the Real Estate dead-cat bounce recently (and you know I worked hard to try to convince you not to do it, but I probably shouldn't have). So to you it doesn't look that bad. Whereas, I am hardcore anarchist and free market proponent. I mean look at me. I am suffering in the Philippines from a serious health ailment and I am too proud to return to the USA where I will be forced into ObamaCare. Hell no, over my dead body. I'll solve my own health problem or I will die. Simple as that. I will not be a ward of the State. I think watching the following short video is very demonstrably and emphatically illustrative of my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kitRRfe-sX0The people love socialism until the extraction of resources for free runs out of other people's money. Chavez stole all the oil from the oil corporations that invested and he extracted that "free" (stolen) resource to give the citizens a free jump out of poverty. But eventually that runs out because the people expectations only rise and the oil price declines and then investment in maintaining the infrastructure declines and then entire thing falls into the abyss. Which is what is coming to Venezuela and socialist South America in general over the next decade. The starry-eyed youth of the UK are being sold this false dichotomy (the Hegelian dialectic that the elite use to fool them) between abusive multi-nationals and abusive socialism. When in fact, this is just two-heads of the same monster. This is the start of the devolution of the UK and it will end very, very, very badly. Mark my word. Watch and learn if you can (unfortunately most Westerners have been so indoctrinated they can't see the truth). |
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THX 1138
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September 14, 2015, 01:35:56 PM |
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Bigtimespaghetti, while Corbyn is a clearly a decent bloke and means well, I wonder if he has the calibre to stand up to the rigorous debate (I'll check out that Oxford Union talk you mentioned) he is soon to encounter. I'll watch with interest - mind you, the intellectul bar is set particularly low already with Cameron and Osborne! As you say, to many outside the UK it is assumed we are generally prosperous. They fail to mention the large amount of personal debt, the number of working people forced to attend food banks because they can't make ends meet; the housing shortages and high rents etc.
Yes people are drawn to him because he seems well meaning (I can't fault him for that). As to debate- I think he is not going to be the sole proprietor at PM's question time I heard he was going to allow any member of his party to question Cameron. As to Cam and Ozzy. I'm not convinced they are idiots, but that's another topic. I find the foodbanks somewhat enabling (at least to those who do not want to help themselves), there are a lot of contributing factors I know. I grew up dirt poor and still managed to get fed. But yes, personal debt (which contributes to the foodbank problem especially) and the housing shortage are serious (largely regulatory) issues. If people give up hope, Corbyn's rhetoric may be more attractive. Hell, I even agree with the idea of public infrastructure upgrade and housing developments (again this is a mainly regulatory issue). If you're gonna have a huge state, after all No, I don't think Cam and Ozzy are idiots, but not exactly rigorous thinkers either, or of the standard of holders of their positions found at times in previous generations; most of those who are I believe choose to do something else with their professional lives. Yes, the less hope the more popular Corbyn's rhetoric will become, and the less convinced people will be of Tory rhetoric. I believe we see too much assumption of entitlement both from the rich and the poor alike; each attached to their entrenched positions over generations. Events will soon shatter our illusions I reckon. Enjoy the (relatively) good times while you can, yeah? |
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TPTB_need_war
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September 14, 2015, 01:52:53 PM
Last edit: September 14, 2015, 02:49:08 PM by TPTB_need_war |
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This is my first exposure to UK politics today. But I can clearly see a lackluster reaction to this speaker compared to Corbyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTXh9NG6DgWhat is the difference. I see it. Corbyn speaks idealistically about "a better world by being respectful of betterment and each other". He represents the starry-eyed youth takeover that AnonyMint predicted. Remember AnonyMint's research into the generational cycle of change which is quoted below. Corbyn is very dangerous. This will become an ideological movement of the Hero generation of the youth. The high unemployment due to the shift to the Knowledge Age is the problem. Too many kids taking up useless liberal arts degrees.
Brand’s excoriation of the political class felt to many like a breath of fresh air. But while Brand’s humor-infused brew of Marxism, anarchism and New Age spirituality may seem like the mere rantings of a rebellious entertainer who frequently refers to himself as a “Jungian Trickster,” I would argue he represents a more dangerous omen.
The Occupy Wall Street “movement” (if there ever was such a thing) – and emerging generations of young Americans more generally – is being led by Brand and other pied pipers away from practical reality and into an illusory “world of pure imagination”. What in 2009 had the makings of a New Deal-oriented mass strike upsurge is being steered off course by Wall Street interests in a rehash of 1968.
I did some research on Tue May 01, 2012 6:36 am (quoted below) on the Long Wave Cycle (a generational cycle) which predicts the above effect. The youth will take over after 2032, and the kind of world they will create will be one of extreme idealism. This is FDR New Deal style of dangerous. This will launch big government on a bigger scale than we had ever seen before, i.e. "international cooperation" as code word for loss of local sovereignty. The youth will put in place the U.N. Agenda 21 with a gleam in their eye as they are trained and indoctrinated now to believe for example that man-made global climate change hoax is real and is a real problem. Here follows the research, and I urge everyone to study this carefully.
I haven't verified whether this long wave cycle principle repeats throughout history, but I assume he has, since he said he spent 10 years perfecting it: http://www.longwavegroup.com/principle/lefi_map/lefi_map.phphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58qtcPst2OII had read an article that ties this cycle into generational cycle attitudes. I am trying to find it, as I think it explains a difference in world view between Boomers, Gen X, and Gen Y. =========== Okay I found it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory#Defining_a_generationhttp://www.financialsense.com/contributors/james-quinn/2011/11/03/bad-moon-risinghttp://www.financialsense.com/contributors/james-quinn/the-gathering-storm Prophet Nomad Hero Artist
High Childhood Elderhood Midlife Young Adult
Awakening Young Adult Childhood Elderhood Midlife
Unraveling Midlife Young Adult Childhood Elderhood
Crisis Elderhood Midlife Young Adult Childhood High = Spring Awakening = Summer Unraveling = Fall Crisis = Winter Prophet = Boomers (born 1946 - 1964), 40 percent of the workforce Nomad = Gen X (born 1965 - 1979), 16 percent of the workforce Hero = Gen Y (born 1980 - 1994), 25 percent of the workforce Artist = Gen Z (born 1995+) Boomers = vision, values, and religion (loyalty, idealistic, entitled) Nomad = liberty, survival and honor (survival, pragmatic, alienated) Hero = community, affluence, and technology (order, righteous, protected) Artist = expertise and due process (continuity, flexible, overprotected) Some links on different attitudes between the current generations: http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/2431/boomers-generationshttp://jojackson.suite101.com/veterans-baby-boomers-gen-x-gen-y-and-gen-z-a185353http://www.enotes.com/soc/discuss/what-different-characteristics-generation-x-e-90271I made some interesting comments here: http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/03/hackers-part-3.html?showComment=1335903496830#c239549748064135439I presented the generational research in the Transparency blog, which explains why we are not going to agree on the use of the government to enforce values: http://relativisticobserver.blogspot.com/2012/04/transparency-way-of-future.html?showComment=1335900204476#c1703906618219560883At least we can be rational about understanding why we have different political philosophies. We Gen X did not grow up entitled. We have to struggle on our own to get where we are. We don't feel entitled, and thus we are not stakeholders in the society that the Boomers built. We trust the free market, because that is what we were dealing with on our own. Social security won't be there for us. The boomers took more than all (debt every where). We've had to scrap and negotiate hard to get some. And instead of giving back to us now the peace of individual freedom that we want, they want to put their value system on us (which will continue to escalate the wars). So there is conflict ahead. The Heros are going to rebuild new institutions and fighting the wars to tear down the current corrupt ones. We Nomads are caught in the cross-fire and just trying to find a way to not get squeezed out. Thus we have no choice but to discard the social contract, as it won't be rebuilt in time for us. So now we can understand why boomer's (you) politics are loyalty, enforcing idealistic values, and maintaining entitlements. And Gen X's (me) politics are liberty, pragmatic survival, individualism (honor), and distrust of values and institutions. I am libertarian anarchist. So trying to convince me that the entitled state should enforce values, is like me telling you that we should privatize the government. Fascinating. It explains why we are going to disagree about any political/social topics, such as Hackers, Transparency, media's role in society, etc.. =========== Some useful tables (although I think this deviates in some cases from the generational theory in the prior comment): http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/james-quinn/2011/11/03/bad-moon-risingThe Boomers (elders) and Heros (youth) are archtypes and will be at odds. Boomers will judge them to have threatened values (remember the Heros are protected), yet ironically the above link claims the Boomers did more drugs, volunteered less, have lower college education, and higher teen pregnancy than the Heros do. 
... If the people can't win on a local level, then it means any proposed solution will be supporting loss of local sovereignty. You simply can't amass resources collectively and avoid the corruption of the power vacuum of democracy. Understanding Mancur Olson's (in his book The Logic Of Collective Action) thesis is fundamental to understanding where we are and are headed: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984 (Some Iron Laws of Political Economics) Thus you see the ultimate outcome of this country-by-country uprising is to turn over control to those who have the levers of control (over the power vacuum) in the wider-scale collective, e.g. the USA, EU, Russian bloc, subservient Asia bloc (China). And you can thus see it will culminate with war and then ending war with socialist "international cooperation". I refer readers to my prior post about the Long Wave Generational Cycle, and how the youth will take control 2032ish after a widespread chaos, and they will be indoctrinated with "international cooperation" themes (from their state schools, facebook, mass media, etc) such as the man-made global warming hoax. So the end game of all of this is reset of the global order, discrediting local sovereignty, and awarding control the wider-scale globalists who will have the youth movement in their back pocket, just as they did in the 1960s in the USA. And so tell me there isn't a globalist agenda and it is all just random chance that such as global order outcome is inevitable? Now is there any other possible solution? Yes there is, and that is anonymous crypto-currency to defund the globalist beast. But this won't scale fast enough to derail the beast entirely. It can displace a portion of the beast. So what is really happening in a bigger picture perspective? I explained this is the death of passive capital. The globalist beast is moving to higher economies-of-scale, because it is being made irrelevant by the death of the Industrial Age and the rise of the Knowledge Age, see following linked explanations: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.0https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495527.msg6103426#msg6103426https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.msg6077596#msg6077596 (read all my posts from this one going downthread) We have two competing yet coexistent trends. The political-industrial passive capitalists (fascists) are consolidating power because their paradigm is an economic dinosaur which is being displaced by the competing trend. The competing trend is the rise of individual knowledge and power to reach the market and produce directly from one's brain (and computer). So on the one hand we will see a rise in consolidation of global hegemony, Orwellian technocracy, and multi-national corporate fascism and massive decline in economic production, while only the other hand we will see the 'hackers' (the broader definition meaning knowledge worker) break away in a sub-economy and we will see much chaos and rapid economic growth in this subspace. ... Now, this is the sequence of events. Yes, you can create a conspiracy and say Goldman, CIA, and Safra all coordinated together to accomplish this. But the more likely than not truth, it is a sequence of independent events one step at a time that cascades into a mess they never foresaw. Then please explain why Goldman has its tentacles throughout the EU fuckfest. You even noted that the creation of the EU was designed to be flawed. Is that random? No! It was by design. This is where the conspiracy buffs go wrong. They create false images of all-powerful groups that mysteriously manipulate the world for purposes that vary between world dominance to just greed. They cannot see that these are separate groups colliding and at times fighting among each other. Martin you understand statistics. What is the probability of that level of integration by Goldman due to random orthogonal events and greed. ROUGHLY ZERO. I am tired of this nonsense. Armstrong is smarter than this. I don't know why he can't do some actual research and overcome his confirmation bias. Obstinance? I do not see how it is possible to have some unified secret group that everyone agrees and extended for hundreds of years. This is inconsistent with human nature. Because there is a power vacuum of democracy and it must be filled. You should understand thermodynamics. This vested interest binds them together, because they can't win control of that power vacuum otherwise. This is entirely consistent with nature. Now look at Ukraine. These conspiracy theorists just have to denigrate the people and presume it is some CIA plot so nobody cares about them. The people are incidental to them and incapable of rising up on their own. They deny human nature exists yet yell there is some all-powerful group to which I am blind. To them, the American Revolution and French Revolution are propaganda and the people were never capable of rising up on their own. They not only fail to understand politics yet claim to know everything about it without ever stepping behind the curtain to witness anything. Armstrong is conflating orthogonal issues again. I am empathizing with the plight of the Ukrainians, but there is nothing we can do to help them, because we would be merely fighting for the elite and helping the manipulation. The only way for Ukrainians to win is either to have armed themselves with a gun under every blade of grass like in the USA, or for some technological solution to come which enables them to side-step (opt-out) of the power vacuum of democracy, i.e. defund the taxation and political-industrial complex. And those prior revolutions were also manipulated for outcomes which favored the elite. We would need to get into a deep study of history to debate that, and I don't have time right now. I do believe there was more chaos at that time, because communication and travel was slower thus the chance we see now with anonymous crypto-currency was instead at the time taking the form of distance from the powers-that-be in Europe in the case of the American Revolution. These people project nothing but speculation connecting dysfunctional groups and linking them to statements of David Rockefeller to justify as proof. This idea of a one world government would eliminate war is stupidity. But it was behind the drive to create a Federalized Europe. Nevertheless, that is not proof that some group controls the world. Armstrong also has nothing but speculation, at least I have provided volumes of evidence. The difference now is that global technocracy is a reality and they can track everything. You bring the idealistic youth onboard and they will create an EU style fuckfest "international cooperation" for the entire world. And Rockefeller et al will have achieved their Agenda 21 consolidation of control and power over taxation and issuance of debt. There is no political system that has ever lasted intact because there is a correction process that comes from the grass-roots that we call – REVOLUTION. The only effectual physical revolution you will be seeing are the zombie idealistic youth for "international cooperation", after the global war and chaos from 2016 to 2024 or 2032. This globe has been shrunk by technology. The only remaining frontier for freedom is cryptography. Armstrong has a dinosaur perspective and he needs to correct this pronto!  "Protester Paul Connor sits on the lawns of Parliament House on day 34 of his hunger strike calling for climate change action, on Dec. 10, 2009, in Canberra, Australia." ... It doesn't even matter if there is a mastermind or not, the reality is Armstrong doesn't even identify the main trend in place, which is not just taxation but rather subjugating sovereignty to the collective on a wider scale as I have explained. They refuse to consider what if there is nobody actually in charge? What happens when all of these conflicting self-interests collide? Historically, you get revolution. That is the only way this will be resolved. And now finally I understand why Armstrong doesn't get it. He thinks the revolution will be physical. He hasn't realized the world has shrunk due to technology, and physical revolution can't overcome the great powers and the global technocracy. These revolutions will all be manipulated by the great powers. The revolution and frontier is cryptography. I've been trying to tell him this for several months. |
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bigtimespaghetti
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September 14, 2015, 02:30:44 PM |
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I watched the Oxford Union speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZvAvNJL-gEbigtimespaghetti, you are obviously part of the younger socialist generation. I've seen it numerous times where you drift left. You even were going to take out a loan to attain real estate right at the peak of the Real Estate dead-cat bounce recently (and you know I worked hard to try to convince you not to do it, but I probably shouldn't have). So to you it doesn't look that bad. Whereas, I am hardcore anarchist and free market proponent. I mean look at me. I am suffering in the Philippines from a serious health ailment and I am too proud to return to the USA where I will be forced into ObamaCare. Hell no, over my dead body. I'll solve my own health problem or I will die. Simple as that. I will not be a ward of the State. I think watching the following short video is very demonstrably and emphatically illustrative of my point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kitRRfe-sX0The people love socialism until the extraction of resources for free runs out of other people's money. Chavez stole all the oil from the oil corporations that invested and he extracted that "free" (stolen) resource to give the citizens a free jump out of poverty. But eventually that runs out because the people expectations only rise and the oil price declines and then investment in maintaining the infrastructure declines and then entire thing falls into the abyss. Which is what is coming to Venezuela and socialist South America in general over the next decade. The starry-eyed youth of the UK are being sold this false dichotomy (the Hegelian dialectic that the elite use to fool them) between abusive multi-nationals and abusive socialism. When in fact, this is just two-heads of the same monster. This is the start of the devolution of the UK and it will end very, very, very badly. Mark my word. Watch and learn if you can (unfortunately most Westerners have been so indoctrinated they can't see the truth). I think you misunderstood my comment. I was commenting from a statist standpoint (it's certainly not going anywhere right now), and there is huge demand for housing in the UK, which is stifled by land-zoning laws. A mandate is not the best way to deal with the problem but better than the continued mess of real estate in the UK. I'd much rather a freer market, alas that doesn't seem to be the want of anyone in the UK. I won't be voting, and can only assume that the public will be lead in whichever direction benefits them least. That Galloway video does illustrate your point. And most of my generation (at least the less intelligent ones) are generally extremely socialist in their ideals. You know I appreciated your input on that house hunting thread |
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macsga
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Strange, yet attractive.
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September 14, 2015, 03:39:13 PM |
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I think that this whole situation of "neoliberals" leaving space for "leftists" is intentional. Let's put it another way; everybody (from the 1st clan) sees that the boat is sinking and looking for someone (from the 2nd clan) fool enough to take the wheel. Regardless of how competent this man is; he won't be able to make a difference.
They will hit him hard with a vengeance, stating that it's his fault and convince the people that the most proper solution is a totalitarianism governance that with strict austerity measures (ie: steal the people's properties), will be able to make the wrong, right. You can have a glimpse of what's like with the "preview" of Greek tragedy vs the EU unrelenting policy against the "lazy Greeks".
BTW: While everyone is convinced that the debt is not viable, Schaeuble has proposed (yet again) a ban of Greece from the EU. It will probably has to do with the Schengen treaty cancellation and a place for them to dump the migrants... What an angelic world we're living into.
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Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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spazzdla
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September 14, 2015, 03:47:19 PM |
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Do you plan on buying stocks and such in 2020?
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THX 1138
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September 14, 2015, 04:03:04 PM |
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This is the start of the devolution of the UK and it will end very, very, very badly. Mark my word. Watch and learn if you can (unfortunately most Westerners have been so indoctrinated they can't see the truth).
I'm wondering why you believe that the devolution of the UK will result in it ending very badly. I'm attempting to learn before things unfold as best I can; the distinction between challenges to wider Europe in general to that of the UK.
...We Gen X did not grow up entitled. We have to struggle on our own to get where we are. We don't feel entitled, and thus we are not stakeholders in the society that the Boomers built. We trust the free market, because that is what we were dealing with on our own. Social security won't be there for us. The boomers took more than all (debt every where). We've had to scrap and negotiate hard to get some. And instead of giving back to us now the peace of individual freedom that we want, they want to put their value system on us (which will continue to escalate the wars).
So now we can understand why boomer's (you) politics are loyalty, enforcing idealistic values, and maintaining entitlements.
And Gen X's (me) politics are liberty, pragmatic survival, individualism (honor), and distrust of values and institutions. I am libertarian anarchist. So trying to convince me that the entitled state should enforce values, is like me telling you that we should privatize the government.
Fascinating.
It explains why we are going to disagree about any political/social topics, such as Hackers, Transparency, media's role in society, etc..
As a late Boomer, I don't really find myself connecting with the alleged values my own cohort should posess of "politics are loyalty, enforcing idealistic values, and maintaining entitlements"; a broad generalization, surely. I find I have more in common with the attributes of GenXers and Millennials. While as a Brit I've benefitted from free education, healthcare and the welfare safety net, I no longer take these for granted. Rather than clinging to an unrealistic expectation of entitlement, sustainable civilization would be closer to my (perhaps somewhat lofty) goal; but difficult to invisage with growing population numbers and increasing demands from the non-productive (whether through misfortune, illness, laziness or being surplus to requirements etc) on the productive. I've seen the writing on the wall for some years now. I'm a pragmatist looking for realistic options. Btw, I think the interpretation of Libertarianism to Americans seems quite different to that of Europeans. |
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jehst
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September 14, 2015, 04:27:02 PM |
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Do you plan on buying stocks and such in 2020?
You must be talking about Asian stocks? I thought the premise is that the West was going to be dying a slow death after 2020. |
Year 2021
Bitcoin Supply: ~90% mined
Supply Inflation: <1.8%
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bigtimespaghetti
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September 14, 2015, 04:34:23 PM |
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Btw, I think the interpretation of Libertarianism to Americans seems quite different to that of Europeans.
The UK Libertarian party seems fairly standard in it's goals and by extension the definition of a Libertarian. What difference do you perceive or believe is perceived in Europe? Please don't reference UKIP labelling themselves as a Libertarian Democratic party even if Farage is as close to a Libertarian MP as I've seen in my life (surely there must be others?). Also, Libertarianism isn't really known amongst my generation (mellennial). Most of my peers see nothing wrong with sledgehammer state power to fix problems. |
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